Has anybody else noticed this trend? I think some users have gotten wise to the requirement that they attempt to solve their issue before posting a question. So they post something with an initial attempt and then in essence throw their hands up and say something like "I don't know how to proceed from here." I still consider a lot of these questions to be closeable due to insufficient detail. Am interested in others' thoughts.
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14Yes, that's not a trend - I think it has been there for quite a while. We demand to show an attempt when a user posts a "give me the code" type question, they do the least effort thing possible. Not necessarily malicious in intent, but there is little to nothing that can be done about it. Close and/or vote and move on, I guess– 0ValtCommented May 22, 2021 at 21:16
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22There is no requirement that users make an attempt to solve their issue prior to asking. Some of Stack Overflow's best, most-popular, most-upvoted questions have no attempt. Depending on the question, an attempt may help clarify and/or narrow the question such that it's not "Needs details or clarity (Unclear)" or "Needs more focus (Too broad)", but an attempt is not required. Narrowing/clarifying the question can be done with just text, or the question can inherently be sufficiently narrow/clear. OTOH, some code can be an easy and effective way to communicate what the OP wants.– Makyen ModCommented May 22, 2021 at 22:09
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1I've edited the title a bit to be clearer, while sticking to the intent of your question as I understand it. Please feel free to rollback if it's not an improvement.– cigienCommented May 22, 2021 at 22:31
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I guess this doesn't have any duplicates here on meta ;)– ScratteCommented May 22, 2021 at 22:47
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1@Scratte: No direct duplicates, probably, but the "lacks effort" mythical close reason has been around for a long time.– Robert HarveyCommented May 22, 2021 at 22:49
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It's been a problem since before I started moderating ~2-3 years ago (IIRC, at which point it was already established). This is by no means a new problem, just hoomans being hoomans, and I genuinely believe it's unavoidable unless you fix people in general. Also means there's not much to do about it-they've been given resources and help, as well as volunteers who often point in the right direction when asked, and chose not to take it, even when it's in their faces (meaning it's actually a conscious choice: "read this and try to fix my post, or walk away and consider complaining on twitter?")– Zoe - Save the data dump ModCommented May 23, 2021 at 5:35
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14There are also people who have 100+ questions in one tag over multiple years and still act as if they have no clue about anything related to being a developer.– akuzminykhCommented May 23, 2021 at 5:51
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I would be interested if there is a difference between the various tags? It's quite common in php that there are questions that almost feel like the person hasn't even bothered to try to do any research (a valid down-vote reason),so does this mean that the question can be downvoted (an indication of a bad question) but not closed?– Nigel RenCommented May 23, 2021 at 16:03
3 Answers
When faced with a question of the form "How can I do ...?", the important thing is whether there is enough detail in the question for it to be clear what the OP wants. The problem also has to be sufficiently narrowly scoped, and it has to be a programming question, etc.
Whether the OP shows their attempt doesn't actually matter unless that attempt is needed to make it clear what the question is. This means a question could have no attempt at all, and still be a useful, on-topic question. These questions typically require a clear explanation of what the code should do, as well as some examples of input and output. You can always downvote the question for not showing effort, but the lack of an attempt is not by itself a reason to close a question.
Conversely, a question could have an attempt, but still be unclear as to what is required, or the question could be too broad. In that case it should be closed for either lacking clarity, or lacking focus. You can always upvote the question for showing effort, but the existence of an attempt is not by itself a reason to leave a question open.
It's true that you will often see comments like "show your attempt" on questions that don't need it. This is unfortunate, as that can even harm the quality of a question. If it's clear what the OP wants, their faulty attempt is often just noise, and it can easily be interpreted as a debugging question, which is useful only to the OP in most cases. Of course, the comment is perfectly valid on questions where showing an attempt would make the question clear, and I guess that's the intent of the comment in a lot of cases.
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11Couldn't agree more with this. Demonstration of effort has never been a prerequisite for asking a question here, only that the question contain enough detail and clarity to be answerable. Commented May 22, 2021 at 22:44
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5(That said, lack of effort is often strongly correlated with insufficient detail or clarity.) Commented May 22, 2021 at 22:46
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1@RobertHarvey That's very true; there's a strong correlation between them. So strong in fact, that users conflate that with a close reason. It's always a bit disappointing when I see a question closed for that "reason", though I understand this comes about from a frustration with having to curate large numbers of low quality questions.– cigienCommented May 22, 2021 at 22:52
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8With all the "show your attempt" comments (often accompanied with close votes), it is not surprising that people start adding nonsensical attempts to their questions.– IvarCommented May 22, 2021 at 23:31
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1This is the correct answer. Whether or not it is the most popular, it is the correct answer. I was going to leave a similar answer but obviously @cigien beat me too it. Commented May 23, 2021 at 0:27
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2"You can always upvote the question for showing effort" - but shouldn't. Commented May 23, 2021 at 16:48
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@JohnDvorak May I ask why not? Showing research effort appears to be one of the reasons stated on the upvote tool-tip. It doesn't prevent the question from being closed, or deleted, if that's a concern.– cigienCommented May 23, 2021 at 16:56
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1@cigien if a question's only good property is that it shows effort, it's not a useful question. And if it's useful for a different reason, upvote it for those. Effort can be a contributing factor, but not sufficient. Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:29
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@JohnDvorak the good old "is required, but not sufficient" conditional. I love it.– BraiamCommented May 23, 2021 at 20:31
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Nice clear answer. Don't know why my brain always wants to reject this notion of demo of effort not being a pre-requisite.– QHarrCommented May 23, 2021 at 20:34
Anyway, the reason for this is the lack of a requirement for showing effort. Not having this requirement made perfect sense back in the day when Stack Overflow actually attracted users who were capable of asking questions that were more theoretical in nature, or that encompassed a large amount of research and dead-ends that would've just cluttered the question.
We no longer live in that better time, and nowadays 99% of questions posted that don't show effort are also questions that expect us to do the asker's work for them. Hence the "requirement" to show effort evolved: it's a quick-and-dirty litmus test to determine if the asker merely neglected to provide context to answer their question, or if they're just trying to take advantage of this community.
The problem is, asking/requiring effort to be shown is a waste of time. If the person asking the question hasn't provided enough context to answer it - and failing to show effort is almost always a lack of context - that shouldn't be your problem. If they wanted an answer, they should have written their question properly in the first place, so vote to close, downvote, and move on.
Always remember: close reasons don't matter; getting rid of bad questions does. (Until or unless we get a close reason that allows us to stab people in the face over the internet, of course.)
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I refuse to endorse a "the ends justify the means" philosophy when closing questions. Our current close reasons already do a really solid job of covering pretty much every "bad question" case; we don't need to resort to abusing close reasons for so-called "noble" purposes.– zcoop98Commented May 24, 2021 at 15:08
What you are "seeing" is our lack of quality floor, the bar that questions must muster to have the privilege of an answer. Sadly, the most effective way of doing that is being denied by SE since it's perceived unwelcoming (which it is). The downside of that is that we don't have tools to actually enforce a quality standard.
Luckily for SO, it's big, so you can impose standards on certain tags without worries. The bigger the tag, the more likely to be noticed, so seek refuge on smaller tags.
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81) You seem to be suggesting that the "bar that questions must muster to have the privilege of an answer" is showing an attempt. That's not the case, and closing question solely because they lack an attempt is an abuse of the CV privilege. 2) You also appear to be suggesting that the OP use this criteria on tags with less traffic so that this abuse goes unnoticed, which I have to say, is not really the right spirit in which to approach curation.– cigienCommented May 23, 2021 at 0:00
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9@cigien no, it's a balancing act. People are asking thousands of people to read their question. They need to make those people worth their time. Asking questions is essentially free and the asker stand to get all the benefits. Low quality post rarely benefit the most important person: the future reader. We need to align our behavior to the ones that give more benefit for all those groups, so a quality standard is a must. After all, "[the] fastest way to kill any Q&A; site is to flood it with low-quality questions"– BraiamCommented May 23, 2021 at 0:06
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4"the most effective way of doing that is being denied by SE" - which is what?– BergiCommented May 23, 2021 at 12:48
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2@Bergi whatever prevents those questions from getting answers.– BraiamCommented May 23, 2021 at 14:02
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3The irony here is that those who would have agreed with you have all since left active participation here behind out of frustration. Commented May 23, 2021 at 19:18
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1@anonymous I mean, there are plenty that agree, so their species isn't dead yet.– BraiamCommented May 23, 2021 at 20:31