36

Secondary accounts are allowed...

but recently the moderators have run into some issues with users creating them and using them in ways that violate the rules, most notably cross-account voting. Know that the Stack Overflow platform has tools to detect sock puppet voting, and you will face suspension of your main account and deletion of your sock puppets for voting abuse.

Does this apply to my secondary account?

There are many legitimate uses for a secondary account. If you are running a secondary account, just remember the sock puppet rules and you'll be fine. This is not aimed at all secondary accounts.

What should I do if I have secondary accounts I no longer want to use?

If you have an unnecessary secondary account, use the contact form to have them merged. (This has always been possible).

Your main account will then get credit for the work done by your secondary accounts, and if relevant, any self-votes will be undone (think of it as an amnesty) and you will feel good knowing that you have done the right thing and that this won't come back to bite you.

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  • 37
    If the system can detect self-voting using secondary accounts, why doesn't it prevent it?
    – pppery
    Commented Jul 21, 2020 at 21:26
  • 64
    @pppery we can't answer that because we don't want users using that information to game the system.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 21, 2020 at 21:36
  • 11
    I agree to your recommendation, but I wonder how many new users will discover this post. I guess, most new users don't read Meta frequently. How do you want to ensure that this post will actually be read by the addressed users? Shouldn't this post at least be [featured]?
    – honk
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 7:00
  • 4
    @TheMaster I suspected that as well before becoming a moderator, but I have never seen any evidence of vote manipulation or voter fraud by employees or moderators - it's too easy to discover, in my opinion. To everyone asking for it, I have now featured the post (I wanted to originally, but I wanted to get a bit more feedback first).
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 12:41
  • 5
    Please make your recommendation more explicit. It's not obvious to me exactly what is expected. E.g. anything from it would be nice if moderators merged their own accounts to secondary accounts should not be allowed, ever, for anyone. Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 13:19
  • 5
    @RayButterworth How can we be more explicit? We want you to merge any secondary accounts. (- unless you're operating for legitimate reasons, completely above board.) Does it need a TLDR?
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 15:37
  • 12
    "How can we be more explicit? We want you to merge any secondary accounts. … Does it need a TLDR?" — Yes, a TLDR would be nice. I still don't know who "you" refers to. If it happens to be referring to all the users of StackOverflow, you can be pretty sure that 99+% of them will never see this item. Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 17:58
  • 16
    This really leaves the impression that there is an inability to combat sock puppets. If that were not the situation, then there would be no need for this kind of idle threat to sock puppet accounts. For clarity, this is my one and only account here. That said, if cross account voting cannot be accurately detected, then how, exactly, can we trust that duplicate voting or misrepresentation are even being noticed at all? If there is discipline to be administered, then simply administer it; there is no need for posturing.
    – Travis J
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 9:00
  • 15
    What is "recent" about bad people abusing sock accounts? Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 16:47
  • 20
    This is not clear. What is the point of this post? It's mostly a lot of vaguely similarly-themed statements. You say "recently the moderators have run into some issues". They are not well-connected to make a point. What issues & how do they motivate your reminding people about options? What is the problem & what are you asking of people? Please read over what you have written to see what you are actually saying. If you're trying to say something about "amnesty" you're not saying it.
    – philipxy
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 21:08
  • 24
    Secondary accounts (also known as "sockpuppets") are allowed...: err, no. Secondary accounts are allowed, sockpuppets aren't. sockpuppets mean that they interact with the main account, which is strictly against the rules. Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 7:45
  • 9
    It's unclear to me what you want to accomplish with this post. Is this a discussion? In which case: What are we discussing, since the post does not contain any question mark. Is this an announcement? A policy change? A reminder? Could you please edit your post and add a bit more clarity to it for people coming in from the main site?
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 11:10
  • 5
    I agree with @Jean-FrançoisFabre. Although some people use the term "sock puppet" as a general neutral term for secondary accounts, for many of us it carries the negative connotation that the account is being used for deception & nefarious purposes.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 12:31
  • 12
    Why is this question featured? What should I do with this information? I am not going to merge my secondary account and I do not understand why should I.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 0:22
  • 17
    @Aaron, my two cents after following this for a while: Even as a PSA, this looks desperately naive -- practically none of the users who engage in sockpuppetry will listen, since, believe it or not, they know what they're doing. Unless you're stating this as a kind of advance warning before drastically hardening moderation policies with respect to socks. Is there something like this behind your intent? Isn't the existing policy hard enough already? (Disclaimer: I don't have "secondary accounts", so this would not impact me either way.) Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 18:52

7 Answers 7

43

Since this post is basically an attempt to prevent new users from using sockpuppet accounts in order to increase the reputation points and privileges of their main account, I want to say something here:

Every user has worked hard to gain their reputation. It is inappropriate to gain one's own reputation by any unfair techniques; beside that this is a violation of the rules.

Reputation points are associated with experience around the site and show proof that the user has knowledge in a specific area (since reputation points are also according to tags).

Always consider that this is a Q&A site, where people search for help from other, more experienced people.

It is not like: "The one who got more reputation is the better user and maybe more attractive for an employer".

I know many experienced users which keep their reputation low because they don't like to post answers, simply have no time to, or just prefer to leave comments instead. It doesn't mean that a user with 100k rep points is better—something that is always subjective—than a user with 500 points.

Having more reputation points, of course, gains you more privileges, but if you don't care about helping the Q&A site Stack Overflow, why would you want moderation tools?

Always think about that. It's not you who you benefit—it's the community that you hurt.

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    "Since this is post is basically an attempt to prevent new users to using sock puppet accounts" what is the need of preventing new users from doing this? Someone with intentions to game the system will fly the bird to this post (or probably ignore it), so what this post achieve?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:42
  • 8
    @Braiam First of all, with "this post" I mean Aaron's not mine. - Second, "What is the need of preventing new users from doing this?" - The need is to keep SO clean and fair. - Third, "Someone with intentions to game the system will fly the bird to this post (or probably ignore it), so what this post achieve?" - Someone with really bad intention's will care a rack of what Aaron or me or anyone else writes here. But that is not what we try to do here. This is just a try to encourage some users to not do so and with that a kind of "prevention". If it brings sth, is a different question. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:53
  • 3
    @Braiam Furthermore, you missed an important part of the sentence "to gain the reputation of one's main account and with that privileges too". - I don't say that they can't or shouldn't use multiple accounts. Our posts are trying to prevent using sock puppets to cross-vote or vote on one's own main account. It is a difference. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:57
  • 2
    "you missed an important part of the sentence" no, I deliberately ignored it since it's addressed already by something else. If that phrase is removed... the entire thing has no purpose. That's what I'm asking about: if self-voting is already regulated, what new problem/solution pair this post offers?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 19:22
  • 3
    1 2 and 3 go back to the previous comment: if SO is kept clean and fair by the current mechanism, what improvement does this change brings to SO?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 19:25
  • 1
    @Braiam I don't know but anyhow it seems that it doesn't work in the way moderators want it to be. I don't know what their intentations are so I can't really say much about that. I just gave an answer to the topic and was suprised that it was accepted. For your concerns you should ask Aaron and the team themself. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 20:34
  • 6
    "...was suprised that it was accepted." If I had to hazard a guess, this is the only answer that didn't question the purpose of the post and even remotely agrees with it ;-)
    – P.P
    Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 21:04
  • New users barely visit the meta, so this cannot be directed to them, unless it would become part of the common help section, within their initial reach. Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 0:01
  • @MartinZeitler This question is tagged featured, so you could easily see it while "rarely visit[ing] meta"
    – pppery
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 0:04
  • 1
    SO MANY new programmers avoid this platform altogether because of the steep learning curve and fear of making mistakes. I have been coding since '08 and, although I have had an account, I have not used it because of the general attitude on the site. If I would have thought years ago to make an alt account, I would have done so in a heartbeat.
    – Nate T
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 19:42
  • You're missing the imho most valuable and interesting advantage of upvotes: visibility. I don't care much about my reputation and I really don't care about privileges, but do like it when people read my answers, and they're more likely to do that when they're among the top answers. Well, I don't know whether the cheaters think like that as well, but they could be. Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 0:36
  • 3
    Hmm. I don't have any secondary accounts, but now that I see I can create them, follow the rules, and then later merge them and keep rep. Seems I could create an account, make 1000 minor suggested edits while being careful to avoid any of my own material, rinse, and repeat, and then merge all my 2000-rep accounts together! Or not? Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 0:37
  • @pppery This will only be featured there for a while, while account handling is quite fundamental. Sure one could say "don't give them ideas", but without a guideline, there are no limits one would realize as a new user. Trial & suspension is not the same as trial & error. Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 10:12
  • 2
    @DanielWiddis you can at most get 1000 reputation from edits, and account merging trigger a reputation recalculation. It would look at all actions of the merged account and apply the limits.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 18:06
  • 1
    @Braiam ..but would it be considered as a violation? i.e. the main account already over 2K rep, then earning reputation via edits from second account -- because the main account can't earn reps via edits anymore. Although, the reps will be recalculated when/if they're merged - just like what happens to sockpuppet-voting reps, which is considered as a violation - I am wondering if this is considered as a violation of rules.
    – P.P
    Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 18:40
93

This sounds like a Public Service Announcement (PSA), instead of a discussion where you're seeking input.

However, for this question to really fit in on meta, it would need to be a discussion, so I'll treat the question as "is it a good idea for us to announce this as a policy?"

No, it is not a good idea to make this meta post a policy, or to send it as a link to new users or any other users who operate sock puppets.

We have existing rules regarding sockpuppets, and this post is effectively a restatement of that, with an addendum to say, "But we'd really prefer you didn't create sock puppets at all because it causes us more work if you decide to accidentally or on purpose use your sock puppet to vote up another account you own."

That's how this post comes across -- that moderators have to do more work because of sock puppet voting and so therefore we should just tell people not to have them, even though it's perfectly allowable for them to have them.

You won't get much sympathy from me on this front: It's a moderator's job to deal with sock puppet voting.

If I recall from my moderator days; it was one of the most time-consuming parts of the job; and it is fraught with more than its share of complaints.

That's the job.

Now, if you'd like to get into the social and cultural why people create sock puppets; then that's a good conversation to have -- but a blanket "Don't do it because it causes us to have more work" is not a sympathetic cause.

As I was reminded many times when I was a moderator: moderators are here to enforce the rules and to ensure fairness and justice. Moderators aren't here to "tell" the community how to run. Guide, yes; and bring up issues people may not see, yes; but not to make edicts from on high. We already have a company that does that without listening to our feedback; we don't need our own elected moderators doing that too.

Aaron indicated that 'dozens of sources' gave feedback on this message.

I got feedback from dozens of sources before you started naysaying, putting words in my mouth, and questioning my intentions. None of them had this take. If you hadn't turned in your diamond, you would have had the opportunity to give me feedback before I posted. This is an important message for marginal users. It's not a message to you. – Aaron Hall♦ 9 mins ago

It is concerning that this message was still posted as if it were a moderator pronouncement without even a majority of moderators approving it:

I want to emphasize that this really, really doesn't represent the consensus of the majority of the moderator team. Several moderators raised private objections to it, which resulted in it being substantially rewritten (as you can see in the revision history). I'm still completely opposed to it, but I don't have a lot of options beyond what you do for expressing this disagreement, other than downvoting it. Aaron has the right to speak his mind, and there's nothing that justifies my removing it simply because I disagree with it, think it creates a bad precedent, or leaves a bad taste. – Cody Gray♦ 20 mins ago

This is concerning to say the least. The job of a moderator is to build consensus to enact change, especially among other moderators. A single moderator's pronouncement which was apparently not shared by a majority of elected moderators should not be featured and it certainly shouldn't be policy without moderators agreeing and raising it with the community for our input.

Since I have no diamond, I can only raise my concerns in public venues like this one.

Since you have a diamond, you can refuse to listen when people tell you that this post won't have the effect you think it will, and it will only muddy the waters on the subject of sock puppet accounts, how moderators get their authority, and what the role of the community is in shaping how Stack Overflow works.

What you've made abundantly clear in your post is that you will refuse to build consensus if you believe it will go against what you want to do anyway. None of us can stop you, but we can continue to speak up against such actions, and as a community vote to elect moderators who will build consensus, and work with the most trusted users to publish messages that the community has a part in.

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    Users need to know they can self-identify socks and request a merge. From my conversations with users that mean well, but that had engaged in cross-voting with socks, they didn't know this was the right path forward to get back on the straight and narrow. I expect these results: 1) we resolve issues straightforwardly that might otherwise take a long time to resolve, 2) we establish a sense of solid standing for users with the community, improving engagement, and 3) we have more users choosing the path of integrity instead of having it forced upon them, improving the integrity of the culture.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 20:02
  • 33
    @AaronHall Perhaps trying to build consensus instead of unilaterally believing you know what's best and how it's best to communicate that would lead to a better stated outcome on meta? Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 13:33
  • 13
    @AaronHall obviously since you have a diamond, you can refuse to listen when people tell you that this post won't have the effect you think it will, and it will only muddy the waters on the subject of sock puppet accounts, how moderators get their authority, and what the role of the community is in shaping how Stack Overflow works. What you've made abundantly clear in your post is that you will refuse to build consensus if you believe it will go against what you want to do anyway. None of us can stop you, but we can continue to speak up against such actions. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 14:12
  • 45
    I want to emphasize that this really, really doesn't represent the consensus of the majority of the moderator team. Several moderators raised private objections to it, which resulted in it being substantially rewritten (as you can see in the revision history). I'm still completely opposed to it, but I don't have a lot of options beyond what you do for expressing this disagreement, other than downvoting it. Aaron has the right to speak his mind, and there's nothing that justifies my removing it simply because I disagree with it, think it creates a bad precedent, or leaves a bad taste.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:18
  • 14
    @codygray I believe the moderation team should ask moderators not to delete comments on their own posts or posts they’re involved in. I also believe moderators shouldn’t feature their own posts. It’s up to the moderation team to police its behavior since we cannot. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:23
  • 2
    @GeorgeStocker yeah, I had to track down mine in this room and even then I had to check back why the op didn't responded to my comment (also, there seems to be a missing one, because the tab said "2 new comments" but I found one).
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:36
  • 7
    @AaronHall Much of the content of your comments on the answer posts clearly seems to belong in your question post towards clearly expressing its point & any advice or request it is trying to make.
    – philipxy
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 21:17
  • 20
    "I believe the moderation team should ask moderators not to delete comments on their own posts or posts they’re involved in. I also believe moderators shouldn’t feature their own posts. It’s up to the moderation team to police its behavior since we cannot". I thought both of those things were already policy! Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 22:00
  • 1
    @philipxy I can appreciate that, but I'm trying to keep the main text as simple as possible for the user that the message is intended for. Anything extra stands to detract from the message more than add to it. - Regarding the deleted comments, when George entirely revised his post, I felt my comments were no longer relevant, so I deleted them, and flagged the responses to them (as they were now obsolete) and other (resolved) meta-stuff, which allowed me to comment on the entirely new post. If we like, I'll undelete all the comments and we can send all of this to chat...
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 22:03
  • 8
    @AaronHall The question post isn't clear. I don't know what it is trying to say to who to do what why. It is disjointed. I wasn't talking about deleted comments. Re comments I just meant comments by you that were present at the time I commented that were saying things that clearly belong in the question that clearly aren't in it. I'm not suggesting just adding them, the post needs to be rewritten to be clear. My comment on this answer was effectively extending my comment on your question post.
    – philipxy
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 22:20
  • 1
    @CodyGray reading your comment, I wonder why this should be featured? If it is only Aaron speaking his mind and not the mod team "policy", how it is justified to feature this? Honestly, I am not that concerned about this being featured, but wanna know the rules. I was under the impression that something has to be either related to company/mod policy or actions (which everyone needs to know about) or a topic that needs input of majority of community (like downvoting post of Dharman) to be featured. This is neither as far as I understand. It's an "announcement" by ONE member of the mod team. Commented Jul 29, 2020 at 1:39
  • 2
    @M-- You can find out what happened by looking at the revision history.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 29, 2020 at 4:15
43

I just want to make sure I understand this post correctly.

As you probably are aware I'm a puppet master of several accounts.

I'm pretty sure none of these accounts have interacted with my main account (this account, in case you wonder if I'm perhaps Aaron Hall) and I'm very much planning to keep it that way. Based on my own assessment all my puppets fall into the categories mentioned and linked under your paragraph Does this apply to my secondary account?.

Your post seem to suggest that I should, despite me being compliant to the rules, merge those accounts. Is that a correct interpretation of your request and the intended outcome? In other words: In 6 to 8 weeks no more sock-puppets exists and the rules allowing them will be removed.

I'm asking for those users that have developed some sock puppets to act as chat-bots, to name one case where this is needed/warranted.

I guess I'm asking if in Does this apply to my secondary account I should pretend there is last sentence that says

if you are 100% sure all your secondary accounts match these criteria, you can skip the remainder of this post

Can you clarify/confirm that bit for me?

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  • 9
    This post is not targeted at advanced users like yourself. I want new users to understand what we want them to do with their secondary accounts unambiguously. I want to devote as little text as possible to spelling out exceptions, and I'd rather have that on another page. This post is not directed at you. I'm very open to suggestions that help me accomplish the goals I have for the post. What would you do differently?
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 13:40
  • 3
    Maybe add a last sentence in the 'When are secodary accounts allowed" that reads: if you are 100% sure all your secondary accounts match these criteria, you can skip the remainder of this post
    – rene
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 13:54
  • 9
    @AaronHall Would it make things more clear if you changed the title to something like "New Users: We Recommend You Avoid Secondary Accounts..." etc? With the current title, it looks more like a proposal that should be voted on than a word of advice. Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 14:05
  • 2
    Rene, I have added the phrase "and use their best judgement here" to the section on exceptions, which is a subtle but explicit enough direction to not confuse my target audience while also satisfying my advanced users. I want to be able to point a new/self-voting user here and not have them confused. Is that sufficient? Andrew, I want to make my post apply as expansively as possible. I'm concerned that "New Users:" will cause the users to whom this applies (and who I have most in mind) to think "well, I've had my multiple accounts for years so this doesn't apply to me." I'll tweak it though.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 15:05
  • 1
    @AaronHall my concerns are addressed. Do you prefer I delete the answer assuming Andrew gets his concern addressed as well?
    – rene
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 15:15
  • 3
    Let's leave it up for now, if it becomes problematic we'll consider it.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 15:16
  • 4
    I have applied some heavy revisions based on discussion with other moderators and I would appreciate your review.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 18:53
  • 11
    @AaronHall the intent of the post is much clearer now and I no longer feel I'm the subject that you're after in that question. So for me this revision is much better.
    – rene
    Commented Jul 22, 2020 at 19:04
  • 5
    Thanks, your answer made me look at the revision history of the question which explained a lot of things. I'm OK with the current PSA, although I find it fairly needless. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 16:49
21

I'm not sure I've completely understood the motivation here, so perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like the obvious solution to the problem of cross-account voting is to have a formal 'secondary account' feature, where a user can have multiple accounts linked to one main one, perhaps publically displayed, perhaps not.

Then it's trivial for linked accounts to be prevented from voting for one another, and to use the existing sock puppet tools to identify undeclared sock puppet accounts and educate/punish those users appropriately.

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  • 5
    That is a novel idea. It would certainly make it a lot easier for users that accidentally double voted on a post with their current socks.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 13:40
  • 3
    cool feature, but useful only for cornercases. People who need a second account for testing or bots are rare. Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 7:46
  • 2
    What are legitimate reasons for having a secondary account in the first place?
    – user692942
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 8:49
  • 1
    @Lankymart There's a link in the Question to that information. Click on "many legitimate uses".
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 10:48
  • 4
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre, I'm not sure what you mean. Surely the whole question is about cornercases? I imagine the vast majority of users on SO only have 1 account. Commented Jul 24, 2020 at 21:30
  • 3
    Just raise a moderator flag on one of your posts and include a link to your secondary account. We can annotate your account with this information, and prevent any future misunderstandings. Annotations are strictly confidential, and shown only to moderators.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 9:23
  • 2
    Right, but that presumably wouldn't help automate the finding of naughty sockpuppets. My suggestion was to provide a formal way to have a legitimate sockpuppet, which would imply that all other sockpuppet account holders have nefarious purposes in mind. Then the existing sockpuppet-detection tools could be repurporsed to automatically (or semi-automatically) send warnings and/or punishments as appropriate. Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 21:16
  • 1
    The "existing sockpuppet detection tools" are people with a diamond after their name. Disclosing your sockpuppet account to us still makes our job easier.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 3:19
  • 1
    OK. I guess I'm misunderstanding the post then. I interpreted it as "it's a lot of work for us mods to keep checking all these sock puppet accounts, please don't do it unless you have a legitimate need", and I think my suggestion here is a sensible approach to making whatever it is that you guys do a little bit easier, because a formal relationship represented in the data model, between primary and secondary accounts, would enable some level of automation, reducing your workload. Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 5:11
17

This question doesn't feel like a question or a discussion at all, but rather a decree that you (and possibly a couple other mods as I understood from the pre-edit) have decided on and want to use this post as some form of "official" statement towards (new) users who create multiple accounts.

Sock puppets used for self-voting/answering and other "bad" intentions should definitely be banned, and if there is a way to prevent these from showing up in a mod flag queue at all then that would be great. However I do not think that this post is the way to go around doing that. Someone creating a sock puppet to manipulate their own reputation is (I think) quite unlikely to stop doing that just because this post exists that asks them to not do it, or else.... Doing so is almost always a conscious action, and not the result of an accident.

If the purpose of this post is just creating a canonical answer to direct sock puppeteers to then I wonder why old posts covering this topic don't suffice anymore, or couldn't be updated using the edit functionality to include this plea to not create sock puppets.

2
  • 6
    Expected to find guidance on how to become a sock puppeteer. Clicked the links. Disappointed ;)
    – rene
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 13:14
  • 9
    @rene step 1) Grab a sock, any sock (Preferably a washed one). 2) Put your hand all the way in the sock (Other limbs may work, but hand is adviced). 3) Make a "C" (or "Ↄ") with the socked hand. 4) Close and open hand in a speaking manner. 5) Have fun!
    – Remy
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 15:57
14

I don't understand this question. Initially, I thought you wanted to post guidance on how to merge secondary accounts into the main one, but now it seems you want us to avoid getting caught by moderators.

Why should I merge my secondary account into the main one? I don't think I am breaking any rules. I don't want to avoid moderators taking an action, which is why I try to follow the guidance from What are the rules governing multiple accounts (i.e. sockpuppets)?

For users who create secondary accounts to abuse the system and work around rules & limitations, how is this meant to convince them to stop abusing the system? Why don't you as a moderator simply suspend such accounts?

For sock-puppets used in voting fraud, what makes you think that they will listen to you and delete their "hard-earned" reputation?

As it stands this question fails to explain its purpose.

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  • 3
    1. Don't understand? This was up for two full days before anyone said they didn't understand. Feels disingenuous. 2. Why merge? Get full credit for your work, and reverse any self-voting, both noted in the post from the beginning. 3. Why not suspend/reverse earlier? That's process territory, which I can't talk about. 4. Why listen to me? I'm a moderator - I deal with the users this post addresses. The post doesn't explain all the details you want because I want it to be straightforward for those kinds of users. If you're using the policy page you linked, you can safely ignore this post.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 2:44
  • 14
    "Don't understand? This was up for two full days before anyone said they didn't understand. Feels disingenuous." - Actually, pretty much all answers (and many comments) expressed certain level of uncertainty/confusion over the purpose of this question, including some experienced users, former moderators, etc. So I don't think Dharman is the one being disingenuous here!
    – P.P
    Commented Jul 26, 2020 at 13:40
  • 10
    Agreed; I still don't understand the purpose of this.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 27, 2020 at 3:16
  • I re-read the last sentence. It's a long sentence. I rephrased it slightly to ensure legit secondary account users won't think they are at any risk here. Suggestions that retain the tersity and intent of the communication yet improve it are welcome.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Jul 28, 2020 at 4:22
-1

If you've been using a secondary account, we suggest you use the contact form to have them merged (follow the directions here).

Your main account will then get credit for the work done by your secondary accounts, any self-votes will be undone, and you will feel good knowing that you have done the right thing and that this won't come back to bite you.

Yeah. We can now buy/sell accounts as fodders to anyone who wants reps(and badges?) because one can merge accounts by just verifying the ownership of both accounts.

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    Please explain how not having a sock prevents selling an account..
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 8:55
  • 5
    @Scratte - It seems that the point here is that if someone buys a high rep account and then merges it with their (buyer's) main account, then you will have an inflated rep with no traceability.
    – PM 77-1
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 13:28
  • @PM77-1 I understand that, but someone could very well merge their own 10K accounts, because they don't like the lag they get from all the deleted posts. And then create a new account knowing what they're doing and not violate a single rule. Or they can just sell it to someone that just has a fresh start with 25K reputation points without ever having merged anything.
    – Scratte
    Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 13:35
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    @Scratte OP is suggesting that there could be a cottage gold farming industry that FGITWs bad (or vote-ringed) questions and sells the account as "mergeable reputation" to someone who wants to look important on the internet. Commented Jul 23, 2020 at 14:58
  • @Michael-Where'sClayShirky Or allow bad users to inconspicuously edit posts with malicious links, or links that "redirect" correctly, but pass the user through a bad portal to do so, generating money, stealing information, and do so on a big enough scale that any inevitable detection down the road still makes this a valuable opportunity for them. I've seen no evidence of this, but if this were possible, it would 100% be happening right now. If something malicious is possible and can be automated, it's already happening. cont...
    – Krupip
    Commented Jul 30, 2020 at 20:58
  • @Michael-Where'sClayShirky But at least while merging of accounts is a rare occurrence, this should be detectable.
    – Krupip
    Commented Jul 30, 2020 at 20:58
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    @whn What do any of those other things have to do with merging accounts? Malicious links are malicious links, and we flag those no matter whose account they're a part of. We don't (all) flag copypasta to duplicate questions, so it can earn rep that someone might be willing to pay for. And once it's merged, evidence of suspicious behaviour is obscured from all but mods. Commented Jul 31, 2020 at 0:18
  • @Michael-Where'sClayShirky If possible that users were able to profit/get some advantage by posting those bad links, sneaky redirects, etc via easy access to "respected" accounts [which grants insconspicious editing capabilies] which were formed via merging, it would have something to do with merging accounts. If it were possible. Like I said, I've never seen this. Malicious links that stay up for enough time to be profitable are different from immediately removed malicious links. Also your reply is incredibly confusing, you appear to be supporting the idea that merging is a bad thing?
    – Krupip
    Commented Jul 31, 2020 at 2:51
  • @whn I think I understand where you're coming from, now. You mean if a normal account sold out to a scammer who used its privileges to do Bad Stuff™ with a veneer of "I'm legit." I'm talking about people who want to be "normal accounts," but want to look more knowledgeable than they are. I don't care if someone wants to merge accounts they own. Likewise, I don't care if they don't want to merge accounts that they own. If they self-promote, they'll get found sooner or later. Commented Jul 31, 2020 at 3:53
  • Frankly, I do not think it is hard to accumulate 2k imaginary internet points if one cares to do so (without buying an account)... and then they can see how far unreviewed edit powers get them before the mods and Peter Mortensen come down on them like a ton of bricks. Commented Jul 31, 2020 at 3:58

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