128

Using data explorer, I have found several users that match the suspicious criteria:

  • User account was created and abandoned the same day.
  • User has no posts themselves but edited others posts to gain reputation enough to vote.
  • User upvoted at least 10 posts.

The query matched 20 users on SO. I know this doesn't prove that these users did anything wrong. Maybe they just really need to fix when there's something wrong on the internet - however, it does seem suspicious. Especially the 13 of these accounts that were created and abandoned over a 4 day interval.

I am not sure if I should flag all of these users for mod attention, or how to otherwise proceed from here. Is it right to post my findings here on meta? Can mods even see if fraud has happened here or are votes truly anonymous to them as well?

10
  • 6
    I suspect that you can expect another response along the lines of I found users who appear to have been serially upvoted, why hasn't this been reversed?.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:32
  • 88
    Something you might want to keep in mind... With millions of users, it's not hard to find a few instances of very odd outlier patterns on Stack Overflow. You're finding 20 results out of 3 million accounts... Maybe there's something going on, maybe .0007% of people are just weird.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:51
  • 7
    @Shog9 Good point! However, you also have to remember that I did use very strict criteria.
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:54
  • 12
    That's kinda my point though - you can pick very strict criteria and still get something out of 3 million just because you're picking from such a large pool. This is why folks complain about the false-positives the current vote fraud script generates, even though it's pretty conservative: sooner or later, someone's gonna naturally go far enough outside of normal and trigger it.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 21:04
  • 23
    @Shog9 Right, but if it is purely random, it should also have a random distributing. Here >80% are all from within two weeks.
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 21:08
  • 11
    Duty Calls.
    – modusCell
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 23:29
  • 61
    This story soon to be published under the title: "Sherlock Banana and The Stolen Unicorn Points". Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 0:59
  • 3
    I bet someone finally figured easiest way to get outta question ban (sock puppet+rep from edits+question upvotes, all that is needed to run such a trick is semi-decent English). I kinda expected that something like this will eventually happen after burn down of close queue has been complemented with anti-recidivism system
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 1:07
  • 5
    There is law of large numbers and there is law of truly large numbers.
    – Lie Ryan
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 3:18
  • 1
    Where would you draw the line? I could create ten accounts and post a decent answer from each just to up vote my main account and it wouldn't match your criteria as is. If people are really that desperate in such small numbers just let them be. There's always going to be people who go as far as needed to do this kind of stuff.
    – scrowler
    Commented Aug 13, 2014 at 0:44

5 Answers 5

205

animuson is telling you "no", but I suspect you don't believe him:

If this was fraud, and these accounts were all created by one user, they would likely only have voted about 5 times for that user (with 4 accounts that would give 200 points on an answer). Seeing that these accounts voted ~20 times each, it would be hard to find a pattern looking at them individually, as it is disguised as a "normal voting pattern". You'd have to look at their pattern together to see if they all made votes for the same user.

Mods can't do that. But I can, and did. I wrote a query to collect all of the votes from all of the accounts you identified, and pick out the folks who got more than one vote from the pool. Then I did some deeper analysis on the voting patterns surrounding this group of users using some other tools I've been working on.

Most of the recipients of these votes were not involved in anything untoward - indeed, they'd simply written very popular questions or answers. However, a few unusual patterns quickly emerged, and it became apparent that most of these accounts were created by a small handful of users to inflate their reputation.

There were other sockpuppets involved as well.

All of the fraudulent accounts have been destroyed, and the person behind the bulk of them - who had previously been warned about engaging in this activity - was suspended. He'd spent days setting all this up, and hours just executing the votes... all for a couple hundred points that didn't even earn him any privileges. Sad.

I was pretty skeptical there'd be any fire behind the smoke here, but you proved me wrong. Kudos!

A bit of advice for the future: if you find something like this, just shoot me an email - chances are, most of the folks reading this won't be able to verify the results or already know about them (moderator Brad Larson was dealing with the culprit here, while moderator Bohemian has a similar query he uses to help identify sockpuppets), so publicly calling out folks as potentially involved fraud is risky - if you're right, you're just telling others how to avoid detection, and if you're wrong you're tarring the innocent.

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  • 63
    Maybe you should consider hiring Banana for your new witch-hunting department? Kudos to Banana, but I hope that's the last of these witch hunting posts that I'll ever have to see, though I'll still appreciate his clandestine black ops work, as long as he secretly communicates directly with the SE team behind the scenes, all cloak and dagger like. Banana. James Banana.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 4:39
  • 12
    Amazing what people do for points that you really can't do anything with. Or maybe I missed the memo saying you get a free Ferrari when you reach 1000 points? ;) Anyway, that's awesome detective work from both Banana and Shog9. Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 5:01
  • 14
    if you're right, you're just telling others how to avoid detection - I have the outmost respect for you, but I personally believe "security through obscurity" should not be a principle adhered by our community.
    – Boaz
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 8:28
  • 4
    I hope the suspension was for a year, at least.
    – Léo Natan
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 8:44
  • Also, would you mind sharing the country of these bad doers? I have my suspicions.
    – Léo Natan
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 8:45
  • 6
    @Boaz this is not a security issue :P
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 8:53
  • 6
    @Cupcake Generally speaking, users subverting a system to illegitimately gain privileges within it (as negligible as those are) is usually considered a security issue. No cynical tone - how would you define this issue then?
    – Boaz
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 9:28
  • 6
    @Boaz: Ideally, it's a case of "fraud". It can't be classified as a Security issue. Security issue is when someone exploits a security vulnerability in a system. Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 10:48
  • 5
    @Shog9 Thank you for actually taking the time to do this! And thank you for the advice, I agree - if anything similar happens in the future, it will be in an email instead of a public post. I am however glad this post is out here now, as it likely will scare a lot of "potential cheaters".
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 13:32
  • 3
    @Banana I doubt it will scare anyone, or at least everyone. It will probably help people figure out more ways to avoid detection.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 14:26
  • @LeoNatan the maximum suspension that anyone can get is only a year.
    – user456814
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 14:28
  • 1
    @Cupcake, not always. Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 17:14
  • 9
    First off, @Boaz... Responsible disclosure. But more importantly... It's actually in the best interest of everyone if these things get caught and corrected quickly with a minimal amount of disruption. The automated systems silently eliminate on average 150 fraudulent votes each day - those that get missed are generally caught later by moderators, at which point the "correction" tends to be considerably more disruptive, particularly the person responsible - we're talking hundreds of votes eliminated, accounts deleted, etc. Imagine if you did this and then put your profile on your resume...
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 17:45
  • 1
    @RetoKoradi: I want my Ferrari! Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 7:35
  • 2
    @Cupcake for some reason i like 'Bond, Banana Bond' better. That is all I have for this thread.
    – Jordan.J.D
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:12
35

Funny thing is people selling up votes on Fiverr. At $5 per 5 up votes.

Ref: http://www.fiverr.com/mygigdeals/give-you-5-up-votes-to-your-legitimate-question-or-answer-on-any-stack-exchange-site

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  • 45
    Anyone who pays for this needs to re-evaluate their life choices.....
    – Liam
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 12:52
  • 8
    5 stars by 22 buyers, wow
    – Kevin L
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:10
  • 11
    Or they are all fake buyers ... after all they're in the "fake" business. Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:17
  • @KevinL - haha. Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:41
  • 32
    Living paycheck to paycheck is an uneasy feeling since you're often worried about how you're going to make ends meet. But you can stop living paycheck to paycheck. My cousin (she's now in high school) makes 5 grands a week. And all she has to do is to vote on stackexchange. Learn how to make easy money online on zomgeasymoney.com Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 14:11
  • 3
    Even more disturbing is from the 2nd page of reviews..."Thanks for ordering my Fiverr Gig, I appreciate the repeat business."
    – Aaron
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 16:00
  • 1
    This is outrageously expensive... it is possible to bootstrap one puppet every 15 minutes... and then go berserk with: github.com/cirosantilli/stack-overflow-vote-fraud-script if you want to. Commented Jan 1, 2016 at 13:58
8

While these users may not have done anything wrong, I agree that allowing users to do this is a bit absurd.

A couple ideas that might limit the influence of one-day-wonder accounts:

  • Lower the daily rep cap from edits for accounts less than one week old
  • Lower the daily vote limit for users for the first week after they earn voting privilege
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  • 3
    a simple idea has been proposed in this MSE answer: new user 'shouldn't be allowed to vote on the first day on the site even after earning 25 "rep" if that happens; maybe only on the second day on the site'
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 1:03
  • 2
    @gnat: Not enough. To quote Shog9: "person behind the bulk of them ... was suspended. He'd spent days setting all this up, and hours just executing the votes" Just not voting on the first day is no obstacle to such a person; just creating the accounts a day earlier during the planning is sufficient. On the other hand my suggestion of needing 3-4 days to gain the privilege, then another week to upvote the beneficiary account, is a lot more pain to abusers.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 19:27
  • ohh week delay would be simply fantastic. But this idea has no chance to survive because it's oh so friggin' far against fundamental values of SO where everything is instantly granted. That's why I prefer to stick with less "meta-offensive" one day delay. It won't stop smart users, but as long as it slows down legions of banned help vampires, it would be good enough for me...
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 19:39
  • 2
    @gnat: I specifically avoided ideas about "don't allow edit suggestions on the day an account is created", because that would interfere with legit users who have been lurking, see something they know how to improve, and create an account to do so. At the same time, a longtime lurker is unlikely to suddenly discover a whole set of things to improve, and even if they do, limiting the rep reward is not actively interfering with that contribution. What it will interfere with is people who find the site for the first time and decide they want privileges as rapidly as possible, without spending
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 19:43
  • 2
    enough time in the community to either understand the principles and goals behind voting or learn how to vote appropriately by example. (In addition to the delaying effect on voting rings -- but I wrote this answer in context of a moderator's evaluation that no such funny business was occurring -- the proposal is intentionally to welcome the contributions of legitimate new users while giving them more time to learn about the culture before they start exercising privileges)
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 19:45
  • I see. But meta "values guards" will likely instinctively downvote this no matter how you present it. OTOH, if you ever dare to present this as a feature request or discussion, feel free to ping me, it will immediately get my upvote and as much bounties as I can to support
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 19:46
  • hey! I just clicked vote split on your answer and... here they are, four votes down without even attempting to explain what could be wrong. That's how "values guards" operate, danger danger, values under attack, turn off your brain and vote it down, immediately. If you post something like this at MSE, it will likely get buried by about dozen downvotes in 1-2 hours. To give it a chance to survive, you'd need either a solid group of supporters or ability to write like Col Shrapnel
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 20:42
  • 1
    @gnat Here's an explanation: The proposal to lower the daily vote limit is useless, it causes minimal annoyance to a sockpuppeteer at best. Same holds for "you can't vote for X days" - so what, they wait X days. But this waiting period would be harmful to legitimate users who get annoyed that they can't upvote - I for one initially started participating on SO to be able to upvote great content (and soon after, to downvote all the crap). The only real deterrent to puppeteers would be increasing the rep for the upvote privileges, but that would again harm legit users.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 8:18
  • @l4mpi "so what, they wait X days" -- with all due respect, this doesn't sound convincing in the light that Ben proposes a full week delay. For a "smart" user infrequently pumping up their rep such a delay would likely still be somewhat acceptable but think of legions of regular help vampires throttled like that
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 8:33
  • 1
    @gnat If a one-week delay for voting would have been in effect when I joined the site, I would not have bothered to contribute or at least wouldn't have been as motivated. And we have "legions of regular help vampires" who are already far beyond the 10k or even 20k mark; and people with enough rep that they should know better who upvote them. Crippling every new user just to make it a bit harder for sockpuppeteers to illegally gain a bit of rep is thus simply overkil; especially considering it's probably uncommon. Something like making editing a 10-rep privilege would make more sense IMO.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 8:56
  • @l4mpi quoting your prior comment, "so what". Singled experience proves nothing, you would not have bothered is opposite to mine, I wouldn't mind having such a delay - neither mine nor your singled opinion proves anything. Funny how real concerns worth addressing are buried under instinctive voting, I can think of at least one, like one would rather learn about voting stats prior to proposing delay, like how many users vote their first day or week, but no one mentions that, people just vote down 'cause it's simply sounds like changing too much
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:05
  • @gnat I vote down because I personally would be opposed to such a change, as I personally would have been extremely annoyed by it. Again, it's overkill to propose a radical change just to stop some sockpuppeteers who arguably don't even cause harm. A few users illegally gain a few hundred rep - nobody cares. Look at all the "legions of help vampires" who think SO is everybodys personal helpdesk and gain way more rep in ways that are completely legitimate according to our SE overlords. And you're right we're missing data and proof here; there's no data that proves it's a significant problem.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:20
  • @l4mpi well voting based on personal feelings is exactly my issue with "values guards", I for one try to abstain until I can explain to self why I am voting (and no, I like / dislike doesn't qualify). FWIW it was exactly the case with post referred in my first comment here, it proposed similar idea and my first instinct was to vote it down and I resisted it and took time to ponder possible benefits and drawbacks, and change opinion to opposite (though I am not yet fully sold on it, given that we have no stats to learn it better)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 9:37
  • 1
    @l4mpi: You earned privileges from receiving upvotes, not suggested edits. You reached 200 rep with only a single edit accepted, so you wouldn't have been affected by my proposal, save that when you first earned the right to vote, you would have had fewer votes each day of the first week. And before you joined, rep cap from edits was zero, and that didn't work badly either.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 14:18
  • 1
    @l4mpi: Once again, this proposal is not aimed at fraudulent users; they're a happy casualty. It's aimed at users who use their newly obtained privilege excessively before they get any feedback on its use. I'd almost like to make it rate-limited until a certain number of votes have been cast. But I think elapsed time is good too -- even if they aren't using the privilege and getting a lot of feedback, they're showing that they aren't hasty with it either, which makes it a lot more likely that they've read some discussions among other users about votes cast and why.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 11, 2014 at 16:53
-20

can anyone explain ,why does it matter , if users create false accounts to upvote themselves ? (not a sarcastic question) . It is their loss anyway wasting time in such a way.

8
  • it matters not because they are wasting time (nobody cares about this). From there, try to figure the reason yourself, it's really simple if you think of it
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:27
  • 2
    i might know how exactly stackoverflow works ,then . but i use it for posting difficulties faced by me in coding ,etc. and getting it answered by the gurus here. It doesn't matter (atleast to me), if they have 10k or only 100 rep as long as i get my query answered . ? am i missing something here ? also, this directly doesn't affect any other users, in any way. it's just the moral policing concept ,i guess. i'm all against cheating ,etc. etc. but it seems too big an effort to be made to stop the malpractices. Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:39
  • 1
    also the "wasting time" part works both ways. you guys will be wasting your times also to see who is cheating or not. Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:43
  • 4
    you're missing, right. It's not reputation of answerers that matters, it's the score of the posts. Readers expect that generally score reflects quality, they find better solution at +10 than at -10. When voting fraud breaks this and sets +10 just because 10 sock puppets clicked upvote, quality rating becomes too unreliable, readers get disappointed, stop visiting Stack Overflow (because it fails to reliably rate content for them) and... site dies
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:47
  • 1
    well, that makes sense . but what do these people get out of this. making a "-10" question to be "+10" one, via fake accounts ? that's just stupid . Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 13:50
  • 2
    well one reason, likely most widespread is to get them out of question ban. Another reason is to inflate rep to look more attractive in the job market
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 14:08
  • i did not know about the job thing, nor about the question ban . Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 14:26
  • 19
    Two reasons: it can be discouraging to folks who aren't cheating when they see a clearly inferior answer upvoted in favor of one they've put time and effort into, and it can be misleading to readers when post scores skew heavily in favor of cheaters. Both of these have been a significant problem in the past.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 15:03
-21

Looking through these randomly (I picked 5 at random) there is absolutely nothing improper going on with these accounts. Given that zippo has turned up with the first five, I'm really not inclined to investigate any of the others.

Do not flag them. I guarantee you the flags will be declined because there is no evidence whatsoever on these accounts that there is any wrongdoing.

Moderators have much better tools for tracking down actual suspicious accounts, and we do so on a regular basis. We get a huge list of users with suspicious voting patterns to other users to look through, and can also see small details on an individual basis.

Bottom line, there's nothing to see in that query. Move along.

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    So it is a coincidence that 13 suspicious accounts like this were created within a 4 day interval?
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:37
  • 3
    @Banana Considering they're from different IPs and completely different parts of the world, yes, I'd say so. There's no evidence there to suggest any wrongdoing.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:39
  • 17
    IPs lie. I have a VPN that with one click can make me appear to be from anywhere around the globe. You can't see their voting patterns?
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:41
  • 2
    @Banana We're only shown voting patterns if a voting pattern actually exists. There's nothing on these accounts.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:42
  • 8
    If this was fraud, and these accounts were all created by one user, they would likely only have voted about 5 times for that user (with 4 accounts that would give 200 points on an answer). Seeing that these accounts voted ~20 times each, it would be hard to find a pattern looking at them individually, as it is disguised as a "normal voting pattern". You'd have to look at their pattern together to see if they all made votes for the same user.
    – dwitvliet
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:49
  • 16
    @Banana I think you're trying too hard to find fraudulent accounts. Let it go and move on.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 20:50
  • 7
    @Banana the truth is out there.
    – OneOfOne
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 22:39
  • 36
    I agree with your view in this post @animuson, but the tone isn't ideal - Banana is trying to help. The origination of "move along" is an order from a police officer, isn't it? (I appreciate it isn't meant sharply, but how it is perceived by others is important, and sometimes phrases don't travel well, culturally speaking).
    – halfer
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 22:56
  • 5
    I'm all for @Banana's perfecting his/her Sherlock SQL skills upon SE's database. Maybe some focus is needed because there are plenty of venues: - share foo searchs on chat; - share bar searchs on Meta; - flag some stuff; - report others directly to the company; - diggin Meta archives to help SQLess people.
    – brasofilo
    Commented Aug 9, 2014 at 23:13
  • 18
    It seems Banana was right after all... Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 12:07
  • 10
    But a mod is wrong. Hehehehehehe…
    – bjb568
    Commented Aug 10, 2014 at 15:08
  • 5
    @bjb568 meanwhile, Megan is waiting in bed. Commented Aug 12, 2014 at 12:30

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