76

Steps to reproduce:

  • Press Ask Question button.
  • Fill in title, question body, and choose tags.
  • Check Answer your own question check box.
  • Leave the answer empty.
  • Press the Post Your Question And Answer button.

Problem:

The question is actually posted (there is no answer so it looks like a regular question). If the intention of that check box is posting own answer, shouldn't we prevent posting if the answer box is empty?

By some red box like this for example:

Enter image description here

My argument about this is based on the meaning of that check box. If there is such a check box and somebody intentionally checks it, shouldn't it then be expected to fill the answer box? I'm not talking about people who cannot understand English or click page elements by random.

The meaning of that check box is posting own answer and if one leaves the answer box empty and the question is posted as a regular question, why bother with such an option anyway?

If one decides to make a coffee with a sugar ignoring to put the sugar in, will they like it?

22
  • 2
    I'd also maybe suggest flashing the "Answer your own question" just in case (and I don't know how you wouldn't notice) you miss the fact that you checked that checkbox. I don't know if we follow this UX pattern elsewhere though.
    – zero298
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 19:35
  • 14
    What is the result? How does the empty answer look like? I don't want to try myself, it seems that you already did. Do you happen to have a screenshot?
    – Yunnosch
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 19:49
  • 1
    As Yunnosch asked, does it post an empty answer, or just not post an answer at all? The former is totally not cool, but the latter... Well, at least it's better than the former, even if it's definitely not expected behavior.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 20:00
  • 9
    I mean, it is a regular question even if you do provide an answer. The fact that it doesn't post an answer if you don't provide one seems... logical. I really don't see the problem.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 20:26
  • 9
    @TinyGiant, well, and what if you really want to post an answer and let's say mistakenly include the answer text into the question box? This block would prevent such case. Users shouldn't be taught to click whatever they see (like that check box).
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 20:30
  • 3
    It is a "don't put the poodle in the microwave" warning, does not belong on a programmers site. Nor was it needed for the past decade. Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 20:42
  • 12
    @Hans, no this is more "I want to put the poodle in the microwave", "microwave won't start until you put one inside".
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:03
  • 2
    @Victoria If someone made such a mistake then they only need to remove their answer from the question and post it as an answer. Easy enough. No need to work to prevent an error so trivially fixed.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:17
  • 2
    @Servy, I've started to think about this feature when I saw this bizarre answer (it links to the OP's own blog). In this case the OP didn't use that check box though.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:19
  • 2
    @Victoria SO what's the issue? The user was intending to post their answer with their question, but they decided not to, and intentionally posted their question without an answer. Warning them that they're posting the question without an answer wouldn't have changed anything.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:22
  • 7
    @Servy, the issue is that when somebody selects a certain path, the system should follow that path. If I choose "answer my own question", the question should not be posted unless I actually answer it (filling that text box). If I check "save my password" check box, I'm not expecting to be saved an empty string if I leave the text box empty. Just like that.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 22:34
  • 6
    The issue this flaw can cause is that a user can mistakenly post the answerless question. The whole point of the checkbox is to get your answer out there at the same moment as the question. By not validating the user input, SO defeats the protection this checkbox is supposed to provide. Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 12:03
  • 3
    @Victoria So if your issue is that you want the system to do what someone asks, then why do you want the system to refuse to post someone's question when they explicitly say they want to post their question? If someone has gone down the explicit path of trying to post their question, without having filled in an answer to go along with it, why should we stop them from doing just that? And again, what actual problems does this solve? If you just don't like the principle of the matter, but it doesn't actually cause any problems for anyone, ever, then that's not a compelling reason for a change.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 13:13
  • 13
    The issue being described here is a basic UX gotcha, and the fix is so trivial and the issue so common-sense that the developers can choose to either implement or ignore this request on the sole basis of convenience.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 14:36
  • 2
    @Tiny Giant: I don't doubt either that this has probably never happened organically. I'm taking exception to how so many people are trying to rationalize this behavior, or at least rationalize not changing it, by saying that accidentally posting with "self-answer" checked but without filling in an answer results in a normal empty question that anyone can answer anyway. That this doesn't happen nearly enough to warrant a change is reason enough to choose not to change it.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 7:43

5 Answers 5

33

This seems like a valuable suggestion which points out a use case which defeats the point of the checkbox.

The issue this flaw can cause is that a user can mistakenly post an answerless question. The whole point of the checkbox is to get your answer out there at the same moment as the question. By not validating the user input the form defeats the protection this checkbox is supposed to provide.

I do not think is being proposed simply because of the inconsistency in the UI (also a valid concern in itself).


Consequence #1:

As pointed out by Victoria in a comment:

it's not only hiding that answer box. Try to check that check box, fill in the answer, uncheck and post your question. The answer won't be posted even if that box is not empty.


Consequence #2:

(I cannot find the reference to this, but I thought this was discussed on the SO podcast a long time back, or maybe I had read it. Maybe someone remembers more clearly what this was.)

I think the checkbox was added early-on because of a certain pattern: a new question would often start a race for answers to be posted. I guess the first one out had some advantage in the "rankings". So the checkbox was added so that people we not discouraged from posting their own answer by fear of not getting its due credit.

I don't know to what extent that is or is not still a concern today.

8
  • 1
    Apart from 'oh, I'll have to post my answer later', what can possibly be bad about an answerless question? Keeping into mind that if the question without its answer is not valid, it should not be posted to begin with. I understand that this would still be a mistake, just curious as to what exactly is bad steming from that mistake. Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 17:44
  • 6
    Even if was proposed because UI inconsistency, it would get my vote. I do think UI consistency is important.
    – EMBarbosa
    Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 20:16
  • 4
    I disagree with your assumption that the point of the checkbox is to protect from not posting an answer. My assumption is that the checkbox is there merely to hide a form field that is almost never used (i.e. SO wanted users to be able to post a complete Q&A pair, but reckognize that it is rarely a case and considered the form that would contain both question and answer fields confusing for users that came here because they don't know the answer). Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 20:25
  • 2
    @Jiri, it's not only hiding that answer box. Try to check that check box, fill in the answer, uncheck and post your question. The answer won't be posted even if that box is not empty. Now, shall I expect the answer will be posted like I shall expect it won't be in case I left that box empty? My answer will be gone, but my fault, I should not uncheck that check box.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 20, 2018 at 7:04
  • 1
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier Somebody could start to invest time to think about your question and maybe write up an answer equal to the one you were about to post. It’s wasting time of other people. Commented Jul 20, 2018 at 9:27
  • @Victoria That might be an intent just as well as simply a technical means to hide the answer box (through addition/removal from DOM rather than just setting it to hidden). We're both just guessing here; this answer builds a case based on one such guess. Commented Jul 20, 2018 at 11:55
  • @JonasWielicki If someone can write up an answer equal to the one you were about to write, in what would be a short notice, I'd say the question was not that "difficult", for lack of a better word. Self answers are valuable to share things that we painstakingly had to find. If someone can write an answer to that question in 5 minutes, maybe the question will be a duplicate after all. Commented Jul 20, 2018 at 14:01
  • @Victoria That is not necessarily a problem. If someone fills the answer box, decides not to post their answer so uncheck the box, they could as well be surprised to see their answer posted (or possibly if they were in the process of writing it). Commented Jul 20, 2018 at 14:04
3

One certainly doesn't want an empty answer, so preventing that should be done.

2
  • 3
    So, let's say I checked the option, then decided not to answer and click the save button. Why should I have to click another button, I clicked save. As a user, the command I explicitely said, save, is ignored. Presuming the former action is more imporant is just that: a presumption. Also, the empty answer is prevented: no empty answers are posted if you leave the field blank. Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 20:23
  • 7
    @Félix Gagnon-Grenier: Either the "I want to self-answer" option gets ignored or the save action gets rejected. If the author really didn't want their question being seen right away, they'd have to delete it after the fact. That's still an extra click (not counting the confirmation dialog).
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 7:49
-3

I don't believe this would be a valuable feature to add, as the problem it is addressing is really a non issue.

What is the difference between a self-answered question and a normal question? The only difference is that the question asker has provided an answer. And that's it.

Nothing else about the question has changed; it is still open for answers, it is still visible to all, it is subject to people voting on it for its usefulness, and so forth. And any user can turn their question into a self-answered question at any point by providing an answer. (I don't know if a user with an answer ban can answer their own question, so maybe it's really "almost any user.")

Let's trace the path of what a user will do who hits this issue organically.

Case 1: User, intending to provide their own answer, clicked the Answer your own question check box. By some confusion while reading the interface, the user, after writing their question, clicks the Post Your Question And Answer button.

In this case, the user obviously intends to post their answer and for whatever reason didn't notice that they were supposed to do that on the previous screen, and now they are on the screen with their question posted. They then scroll down and see the box to input their answer, so they write their answer, get the "Are you sure you want to answer your own question" popup, and post their answer. Thus, even in this kind of a case, someone wanting to answer their own question doesn't have anything blocking them from doing so, so there is no issue for someone who wants to answer their own question and for whatever reason clicks the Post Your Question And Answer button without writing their answer initially.

Case 2: User clicked the Answer your own question checkbox in error, not desiring to provide their own answer.

In this case, the person finishes writing their question, then scrolls down and hits the Post Your Question And Answer button, and their question is posted. There's nothing wrong here because the person didn't actually want to post an answer.

Case 3: A curious user is toying around with the question buttons to see what happens if you indicate that you're going to answer your own question and then put nothing in the box, and clicks Post Your Question And Answer.

In this case, the user found what they wanted. Trying to block this from happening is, as Hans Passant so beautifully put it, a "don't put the poodle in the microwave" warning. It's just unnecessary.


These are the only 3 cases I can realistically think of someone running into this, and in all cases, it is really a non-issue. If you can come up with some real cases though in which this would be a problem for a user, please do share. Otherwise, I do not believe that this is something devs should spend time implementing.


As pointed out by Zero298 in the comments, there is another very valid case that hasn't been covered above, which is a variation of Case 1 that I hadn't considered.

Case 4: A user who has researched their own question and intends to provide an answer, for whatever confusion of the UI posts their question without the answer. Then, before they have the opportunity to post their own answer, another fast acting user "snipes" their answer, posting basically the same material that the original user desired to post, thus invalidating the research the original user did into their problem.

In this case a user may be discouraged by having done the work and wanting to share their solution on Stack Overflow, only to watch some other user take the credit. I don't know if this ever really happens per fault of a user being capable of clicking the Post Your Question And Answer button after checking the Answer your own question checkbox, and I somewhat doubt that changing this part of the user interface will end up really benefiting someone, but this is a valid situation that could be prevented by preventing the "Question and Answer" from being posted if the answer box is blank.

We would need to evaluate if that use case is reason enough to submit this change. As BoltClock has already mentioned, it "is so trivial" to program, so if the site devs agree that it is so simple that the risk of a user having an issue like Case 4 is greater than the effort to make the change, go for it.

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  • "(I don't know if a user with an answer ban can answer their own question, so maybe it's really "almost any user.")" One would hope they couldn't post an answer even if they are using the "Post an answer with my question" feature.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:18
  • 8
    I disagree that your scenario 1 isn't a problem because the user can just answer after posting the question. When I've posted a question intending to answer it myself, but posted it before writing my answer, I've ended up expending a lot of energy replying to people who commented or answered before I finished my answer--and they obviously spent unnecessary energy on their comments/answers.
    – Adair
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:21
  • 5
    @Adair Is that really unnecessary energy though? There is great value in other solutions being present to the problem. If your question/answer pair is so valuable that you are deciding to post it, then others' contributions are just as valuable as your own and shouldn't be discouraged.
    – Davy M
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:22
  • 1
    Take for example the "bizarre answer" that Victoria linked. The poster had intended to answer their own question but didn't have time to do so, and decided that people would benefit from others attempting the solution as well and decided to post the question, and a while later, post their own answer.
    – Davy M
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:24
  • 1
    @Adair, that's what I'm trying to point out. If somebody mistakenly inserts the answer text into the question box, then receive, say, a phone call that their poodle suddenly died can result into a bunch of "researchers" wasting their time. Case I've linked was different, but was an inspiration for thinking about such scenario.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 17, 2018 at 21:58
  • 1
    @pnuts, I disagree. Sometimes, I'm writing quite detailed answers and if somebody would mistakenly post a question that they wanted to immediately answer (having delay to fix this issue due to certain circumstances) would make me bad just because of this.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 1:15
  • 2
    @pnuts, nothing personal at all :) Just my opinion. My point of this feature request is that if a user chooses something, let them (well, force actually) to provide it.
    – Victoria
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 1:19
  • 6
    This issue is trivial to fix with some bog standard validation so why wouldn't you do it?
    – Liam
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 9:52
  • 2
    @Liam Features aren't implemented unless someone is able to provide a compelling reason why they shouldn't be implemented. It's the reverse. Features aren't implemented unless there are compelling reasons why they should be implemented (that aren't offset by compelling reasons to not do it).
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 13:15
  • 1
    The question has already stated that users who aren't using the feature as intended are irrelevant, so I don't see why those use cases are being described again here. Even if posting a question alone with the checkbox checked results in the creation of an empty question, and even if the end result is indistinguishable from an everyday and normal occurrence of a new question, that doesn't discount the fact that the site behaved in a way that's potentially surprising to the author who's using the feature as intended, and potentially detrimental to their workflow.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 14:42
  • The closest thing that comes to a saving grace, IMO, is that answers can still be voted on regardless of when they were posted relative to the time the question was posted, so should the author choose to try and salvage their mistake by writing and posting their own answer, no matter how long it takes, if voters prefer it to competing answers, they will upvote it over the competing answers.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 14:46
  • "and potentially detrimental to their workflow" @BoltClock I feel that this is a gross exaggeration of the problem. The literal worst case scenario is that somebody posts the same thing that the question asker was going to post as an answer before the asker has the chance, and the result of that is simply that we have a great question and answer posted to Stack Overflow.
    – Davy M
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 16:12
  • 3
    The result of that isn't "simply" that we have a great Q&A on Stack Overflow. There's also the side effect of the asker getting frustrated that a small misclick on their part has had such significant consequences - even if those consequences are positive.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 16:17
  • @User202729 We already have plenty of users who edit their answers into the question. Of the many questions that include answers in the question, I'd be willing to bet that extremely few if any get posted due to this checkbox "issue."
    – Davy M
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 16:17
  • 3
    One thing I'd like to note is that if a user intends to answer their own question, they did the research and IMO, deserve the right to answer first. I know that we say temporality has no place on the site, but the "Fastest Gun in the West Problem" is real and I think I'd be really irritated if I accidentally posted my question and somehow got answer sniped. This is incredibly corner case, but a valid criticism.
    – zero298
    Commented Jul 18, 2018 at 16:21
-6

I don't see the use. It seems that somehow, it's presented here that a question without its self-answer loses its usefulness, which is wrong.

A self answered question must still be valid without the self answer. And if they really wanted to post their answer, nothing prevents them from doing it afterwards.

We could remove the checkbox and leave the self answer area there so that we can write an answer at the same time if needed.

If the coffee is not drinkable before adding sugar, it will not be better with sugar.

3
  • 7
    I think the check box exists because having the answer box be always visible might confuse some people thinking that section is non-optional. Only displaying the box after a user has explicitly signaled their intention to self-answer is far more clear.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 17:35
  • Yeah, I agree with you @Ajedi32. I added that as some half-heartedly remedial idea to the checkbox is checked with no answer problem. Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 18:26
  • 2
    The reason why asking should be blocked in this case is not because the question is presumably useless without an answer, but because the asker clearly wasn't doing something right. Either they shouldn't have checked the checkbox or they should've written an answer, and the latter (posting the question prematurely, by mistake) sounds like a reasonable use case. Blame it on python, but I don't think the system should guess in the face of ambiguity ;) Commented Jul 19, 2018 at 21:05
-6

Remove the check box and use some other clever UI magic that make it clear to the user that if he clicks it the text field will appear.

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