103

So I was recently accused of abusing my dupehammer privileges. I closed 3 posts (1, 2, 3) at various times as a duplicate of my own question. This is a "a clear conflict of interest and an abuse of the privilege."

I take accusations of abuse pretty seriously. Let us assume the moderators are correct and I am abusing my privilege.

I was recommended to just leave comments in future.

My specific problem is this: there is an answer to my question which I cannot find elsewhere on SO. Comments are ephemeral. If someone asks "how can I optimise finding substrings in strings with pandas," it seem irresponsible to not close as a duplicate of a question with an excellent answer utilising the Aho-Corasick algorithm.

So how do I make sure I don't abuse my privilege, while still letting me wield that dupehammer:

  1. Never mark as a duplicate of my own question. Comment and let community decide.
  2. Turn a duplicate target question into community wiki to prevent accusations of abuse ("it's no longer my question...").
  3. Ask someone (a mod?) to combine answers across duplicates (1, 2), so there is only one dup target.

The mods suggests (1) and nothing else. But the argument was never spelt out beyond "it's an abuse because it's a conflict of interest" - so it's not clear whether I should ever be able to mark a question as a duplicate of my own, or whether this is a one-off occasion when it was deemed I'm abusing my privilege.

33
  • 18
    @Braiam, There are some things you can't replicate once you have dupehammer. You can't vote to close as a duplicate via a standard vote.
    – jpp
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:41
  • 9
    Why don't you close to the older question ?
    – Stargateur
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:42
  • 45
    That is… odd. I am routinely doing this with several reference questions I have created to address recurring questions.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:43
  • 67
    Is this standing moderator policy? If it is, it needs to be changed. Dupe-closing with a question of your own as the target - hammer or not - should not be treated as inherently problematic.
    – Pekka
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:45
  • 21
    @Stargateur, My opinion is a Q&A consists of Q.. and A. An excellent question with no good answers is a poor duplicate target, in my opinion. Better to close as a duplicate of a slightly worse question with excellent answers.
    – jpp
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:47
  • 14
    @jpp but the older question get an answer that score 60, the answer to your question score a 17. To me you are completely force your opinion about what is the best answer !
    – Stargateur
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:49
  • 37
    @Stargateur Which is kind of the prerogative of a Mjölnir-wielder. We trust goldbadgers to be able to make a decision on what is best.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 11:53
  • 25
    @Stargateur That could be a fair argument to be had. Any goldbadger can show bad judgement. Citing "it's your own question" as an argument is invalid IMO.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:00
  • 19
    @Stargateur Sorry, but this is completely off the mark. Asking a question now means you are not "qualified about the subject"? I can't describe the attitude this seems to convey as anything but groundless elitism.
    – duplode
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:05
  • 6
    @duplode Seems more like anti-elitism.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:07
  • 14
    As with @deceze, I'm puzzled by the message. We're trying to get a discussion going but I'm still waiting for the mod who sent you that message to come back online.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:07
  • 13
    I think it's true that some users preferentially close (or vote to close) for duplicate questions they have asked or answered even if there are better fitting duplicates, but this may be because they are more familar wih these questions rather than any attempt to gain reputation Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:09
  • 13
    This is the missing link meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309929/…
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:14
  • 18
    @Stargateur wrt that old answer with score 60 - given that answer in a newer question was written by the same user, chances are high that newer answer is better (matured knowledge, more experience). As for the difference in the score (newer answer has it 4x smaller) this could be a simple byproduct of older question having 40x more views than newer one, ie not very convincing as a measure of quality
    – gnat
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:03
  • 10
    You're obviously a talented programer, and very energetic to be able to score almost 30k of rep and the Mjölnir in 3 months! In my experience, you're courteous and quick to respond to constructive criticism. But IMHO your work would be of even higher quality, and less likely to attract criticism, if you just slow down a little. :) It's good that you're looking at old questions, especially ones that may need updating for Python 3, but there's no rush, they aren't going anywhere. ;) And with those old questions it's often a Good Idea to get feedback from others on how best to handle them.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:14

5 Answers 5

54

A conflict of interest does not necessarily equal abuse.

But the problem with a conflict of interest is that it can be difficult (for both us and you) to tell whether or not there's abuse or unjustified bias (bias in the form of viewing your own post as better than it is, which might involve seeing it as better than another post or believing it answers another post sufficiently, when it's not or doesn't).

That's why you can find plenty of laws, rules and legal clauses about conflicts of interest, and why people recuse themselves to prevent conflicts of interest.


You should already be critical when considering casting a standard close-vote.

You should be very critical when considering single-handedly closing a question.

You have to be even more critical if any of these apply:

  • You asked or answered the duplicate target (i.e. the question that's staying open).
  • The duplicate target, with its answers, has lower scores.
  • The duplicate target has significantly fewer answers.
  • The duplicate target is significantly newer.
  • You're closing multiple posts with the same duplicate target in a short timeframe.
  • The questions are not pretty much identical, e.g. the potential duplicate is indirectly answered or answered as part of the duplicate target (this might be a sign that they're not duplicates, but this could also happen in the case of canonical posts).

If only the first bullet points applies, I'd say it's reasonable to follow your best judgement regarding closing it.

If a few or all of the points apply, you can still single-handedly close it, but you might want to consider instead getting a second+ opinion via e.g. chat.

4
  • 9
    Excellent advice, thank you. Usually it's a race to mark as a duplicate (and finding your own question is easier) to avoid multiple poor answers polluting the Q&A. But this demonstrates that I should think deeply about any potential conflict of interest before wielding the hammer.
    – jpp
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 14:48
  • 7
    This answer covers pretty much everything I wanted to say.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:07
  • 13
    It seems to me that, if this is how it is supposed to work, then users need to be able to vote to close as a duplicate without hammering. Because that seems to be OK, right? It seems silly to force a power on people that denies them the power they would have had otherwise. Commented May 8, 2018 at 22:15
  • @NicolBolas This idea was discussed here
    – anatolyg
    Commented May 8, 2018 at 22:35
108

Is this standing moderator policy? If it is, it needs to be changed. Dupe-closing with a question of your own as the target - hammer or not - should not be treated as inherently problematic. – Pekka 웃

It is not standing moderator policy, no. And neither should it be. Goldbadgers are trusted to know something about the topic they have a gold badge for, which necessitates that they have a number of answers in that topic and hence will likely encounter duplicates for which "their" Q/A is a good fit.

Additionally, you mostly know your own posts best and are much more likely to find a good duplicate target in your own posts than elsewhere, e.g. because you remember a specific post by specific keywords and can find it quickly.

In this case it seems that the sudden activity on older posts looked suspicious. I'll let the moderator post their own response if they so choose, and I can understand how suddenly closing some well-received questions as duplicate of one's own post attracts attention.

But I repeat: You are free to choose your own posts as duplicate targets if you think they answer the question best. Whether this was the best course of action for these specific questions is a separate topic (which I don't have much to say about as they're outside of my expertise).

11
  • 1
    What about the case when a goldbadger hammers the wrong question as a dupe. Would you consider this abuse or simply faulty judgement? (considering the fact even experienced people can make mistakes) Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:01
  • 34
    Oh sure, that kind of thing happens. It's inevitable to happen. People are faulty, they can't make uncontroversial decisions 100% of the time. The important thing is that such mistakes must be correctable. Typically a comment directed at the badger with a persuasive argument should do it. If it doesn't, escalate the issue to Meta, or chat or whatever. But I find it untenable to accuse anyone of abuse in bad faith.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:04
  • 4
    @AndréKool: Then another user can "abuse" their gold badge to revert the faulty closure ;-)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:08
  • 4
    "the sudden activity on older posts looked suspicious" jpp has only been a member for 3 months, but has amassed a high rep in that short time, so naturally they've ruffled a few feathers in the process.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 15:25
  • 5
    gold badger can change the target for "free": meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/355666/… Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:10
  • @pnuts You mean some objective measurement of "best"? Hardly.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:11
  • 1
    @pnuts Sure, I don't think you need to take a scientific survey before badgering a question. Let's put it this way: If you have the choice of a Q/A written by you which adequately answers the question, and another Q/A which all things being equal does about the same, or no other alternative, there's no reason to shun your Q/A in favour of someone else's. If you know of a truly better answer, well, then, go for that, not your own.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:19
  • I generally try to do a dupe search before answering a question, unless I feel it's very unlikely that a dupe already exists. So if a similar question comes up further down the track, I know I've already done a dupe search, so I can be confident that my answer is a good target. Of course, someone else may have written a better answer in the mean time, but in that case, they should've found my answer in their dupe search and then subsequently hammered my old answer with their superior one. :)
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:25
  • 2
    @pnuts Sounds to me like you are asking for some measure of “best” after all. 😀 Well, no, there isn’t really any such thing. Preferably we could consolidate everything into one question which answers all questions, so by that metric you should pick the one with the most existing back links. But really, it depends on whether an answer answers this particular question particularly well. If you think Yes, the OP will understand the issue and find a solution here, then that’s the dupe target you should pick.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:35
  • 6
    Also, there's less pressure to find the very best target now that multiple targets can be specified and the target list edited. Sure, we shouldn't just select something that vaguely matches, but sometimes we do need to act quickly to close the question before it's flooded with low-quality dupe answers.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 16:50
  • The first paragraph nail it clearly, dupehammer owner have a lot of answers to the tag they have their hammer for, so it's perfectly normal.
    – Walfrat
    Commented May 9, 2018 at 8:24
25

As the moderator who responded on MSE - I can only apologise for my language. I meant to say that using the dupe hammer to close questions as a duplicate of your own question was a conflict of interest - not an abuse. However, because you closed several multi-year old questions as duplicates of yours I felt I had to act.

No matter how well you have written your question you are not an impartial observer and will have an unconscious bias towards your question.

As Dukeling points out in their answer you have other mechanisms to bring the potential duplicate to other's attention and they can act if they agree.

To be clear - I have no issue with anyone closing a question as a duplicate where they have answered the duplicate target. After all, if you are active enough in a tag to get a gold badge the chances are that you've answered a lot of the common questions that get asked and are likely to think "hang on I'm sure I've answered this before". Not being able to close the new question as a duplicate would be a bad thing.

23
  • 1
    What do you mean "responded on MSE"? Was something related to this question posted there?
    – mason
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:21
  • 3
    @mason - this stems from a question posted on MSE - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309929/…
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:24
  • 3
    I wonder if you (or other mods) are also going to act on these users? If not, then it is still unclear for me what the general guidance/advice is.
    – rene
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:43
  • 2
    The way i see it... if you find yourself looking for questions to mark as a duplicate of your own question/answer, you're in the wrong. Just like it's wrong to seek out multiple questions to apply an answer you've found/created to.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:49
  • 9
    @KevinB: I take umbrage to that; if the information is truly spread out and dupe closure would truly be the best resolution to the situation, then I don't really see the problem.
    – Makoto
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 18:50
  • 5
    @KevinB: Again, if my post is suitable as an answer to those duplicate questions...I'm really not sure if I see it as that big of a deal. If it's actively abusive or something doesn't quite smell right, then a mod flag would be appropriate here, but in general...not really seeing the problem?
    – Makoto
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:05
  • 4
    Hmm, This is tough. I'm in there at 4 posts duphammered, but there are 6 users with 100+. If the advice is that any conflict of interest that is raised is considered primarily self-serving, then (almost at will) a bunch of old questioners can come in and claim the same and have their will acted on.
    – jpp
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:11
  • 8
    (1) I get the conflict of interest angle, but I feel we should be wary of going overboard with it. It would be good if we could be a little more trusting, and a little less concerned with score. (2) In cases like this one, in which there are no clear signs of abuse, do you think it would make sense for the investigating mod to drop in a link at the Python room (or SOCVR, etc.) and let the folks there give a second opinion?
    – duplode
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:27
  • 6
    FWIW, I find the re-opening of especially that 3rd question, which doesn't even have an answer, clearly too dogmatic. Even if it's part of a "pattern of abuse", that one was clearly better off closed as a duplicate (as far as I can judge the content).
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:31
  • 4
    Good answer but ... conflict of interest? since when you get upvotes on your linked questions when closing as duplicates? Since when people upvote the original questions at all? It almost never happens Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:34
  • 3
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre, Agreed, in future, where there's a case for conflict-of-interest I'll pass to the Python chat room. But I still have a problem with the general rule that if a "conflict of interest claim" is raised, it can suddenly invalidate a whole bunch of genuine, good-faith close-as-duplicate votes. There may be thousands of these.
    – jpp
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:45
  • 4
    I hammered a lot of posts in c & python with my Qs or As for the good reason that I knew where to look, and I wanted to avoid a FFGITW answer. If you're going to hammer a lot of old posts, don't do that the same day (in that case Python chatroom can do it for you as well). That's seen as abnormal activity. There's no urgency to close in those cases. I'm sure you meant well. Commented May 7, 2018 at 19:47
  • 1
    @rene - Regarding your query, we have had discussions about some larger-scale duplicate closure efforts reflected there, either in chat or on Meta. Here's one example, where we wanted community input before acting on flags about this. Dukeling's guidelines are in line with how I judge cases in response to flags, but when in doubt I feel better about having other subject matter experts weigh in on the correctness of the close votes.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 20:59
  • 21
    This makes me sad. We have a gold badge user doing good by improving old content, and you do this? So what if the gold badger knows their own questions? Can't we please be a meritocracy? If it's a dupe it doesn't matter one jot who wrote the question. Content matters. Authorship does not. Are we about quality? Or are about playing games with rep? Commented May 7, 2018 at 21:51
  • 4
    @KamiKaze My point is that the content is what matters, and not who wrote it. If a specific closure is "worse" than not closing then of course I agree that it should not happen. But that decision should be taken on grounds of technical merit. In my opinion. Commented May 9, 2018 at 10:09
8
  1. Never mark as a duplicate of my own question. Comment and let community decide.

Not necessary. The whole point of having dupehammers is that to get a gold badge you must be very active in the specific tag. Being active and having a gold badge means that you are one of the people most qualified to determine if a certain question has been asked before.

Naturally, the most easy to realize that the question has been asked before if you remember writing an answer to it yourself. Therefore, closing as dupe to questions answered by yourself is natural.

What you need to consider here is just:

  • Might there be better "canonical duplicates" to this question than the one you wrote yourself? As a gold badger you are expected to have a bit of a clue here. For example, you should be aware of the 20-something most frequently asked questions, present in the "frequent" tab of the tag, or perhaps in some manner of custom FAQ system for the specific tag.

    The number of up-votes is a decent way to measure how canonical a post is.

  • Is the question with your own answer really an exact dupe or just "mostly a dupe". If it is not a clear case, then it is better to leave a comment "possible duplicate of..." and let other users decide.

  1. Turn a duplicate target question into community wiki to prevent accusations of abuse ("it's no longer my question...").

This is a good way to make something a canonical dupe. For example if you want to answer a FAQ Q&A style to a FAQ where there's no canonical dupe to be found.

I have done this myself several times when I predicted at the point of writing that I would be using my own post as a canonical dupe. As a side effect, other users can go in and improve the community wiki, which I only have positive experiences from.

If you have made your own question/answer community wiki, then you can of course drop any concern of being partial and just dupehammer away.

  1. Ask someone (a mod?) to combine answers across duplicates (1, 2), so there is only one dup target.

If there are several duplicates, you can ask a mod to merge them, but it sounds like a bit of work, so only do this if you have two questions each with good/unique high-quality answers.

1
  • 2
    As technology evolves (Python 2.x -> 3.x), libraries mature, expertise built-upon and advanced, historically highly upvoted posts may no longer represent the best answer today. I'm not saying we should ignore upvotes, but there are specific situations (possibly the problem I encountered in my post) where impartial expertise is helpful for a judgement call. Otherwise, great answer!
    – jpp
    Commented May 9, 2018 at 9:07
-36

In my opinion, in that specific case(the 1 question and yours), you should:

  • Ask to an another gold hammer to double check that the answer of the duplicate are better and this will not make you as the gold hammer who close vote the question. (so no possible abuse from you)
  • Or ask to the community their opinion for exemple on the chat room of python. And they will decide of what to do. (still here you don't vote anything so no abuse)
  • Or in last resort, you could directly ask on meta.
8
  • 14
    I mean, that would be nice to do. But it shouldn't be required.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:45
  • 1
    @BoltClock Well, I think a great power come with blabla... ;). So for me responsibility come with the fact that you should sometime be careful with your jugement and think (maybe I'm wrong ?) and so ask to another person opinion. This is what I would call responsibility. Here jpp claim without any hesitation that answers to his/her question are better that seem suspect to me and not "very responsable". I didn't say "you must" but "you should" and I tried to answer to the question "How to use gold dupehammer without abuse (in that case)"
    – Stargateur
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 12:59
  • 24
    It's just unrealistic. I don't know any goldbadgers IRL outside of SO. I don't frequent the chat much. If I'm on the fence, I rather abstain completely. If the system has entrusted me with the power, I shouldn't be bound to double check myself, implicitly or explicitly.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:01
  • 1
    @deceze you are a very strange moderator, I never through that a moderator say that double check is bad ! moderator make error, gold hammer too, every one make some error
    – Stargateur
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:02
  • 9
    @Stargateur Double checking simply doesn't scale, is all. We entrust individuals with powers to do certain things by themselves to make the system scale. And community-moderation is already behind what's really necessary; slowing that down even further by requiring everything in double copy only makes things worse. As long as errors are correctable, that's enough.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:09
  • 1
    @deceze I'm like did you read my answer ? "in that case" ? In that specific case ? I never said that gold hammer should always to that. This would be stupid to have this power if we need to double check every time. I would like to remember that a moderator judge this was abuse not me. And I think I agree with this moderator, this was a little too powerful to use this power in that case.
    – Stargateur
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:11
  • 10
    I may have indeed read your answer from a different POV. If you're going to do mass edits/closures, you should probably get some consensus first. But three posts really isn't much and I probably wouldn't either. And posting somewhere hoping someone else will do it for you has a good chance of resulting in no action being taken at all, so doesn't seem very productive either.
    – deceze Mod
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 13:16
  • 4
    As far as my experience in my home tag goes, after-the-fact correction works fine in general. If I cast a bad hammer vote (which does happen from time to time), either someone will ping me with an objection and I will undo it, or a fellow gold badge holder will undo my closure.
    – duplode
    Commented May 7, 2018 at 14:12

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .