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I noticed that one of the new moderators decided to unfreeze a room that was inactive for some time. IIRC, the room was frozen because it was (almost entirely) just a feed of site-questions meant to obfuscate the fact that it was inactive.

This wouldn't be strange, except for the fact that the moderator is the owner of the room, and he had originally created it in protest after being repeatedly antagonistic towards members of an existing room because he was not made a room owner. I brought up this concern, rather directly, during the nomination phase, hoping for a tidy resolution or assuaging of my concern that I'd be posting a message like this on meta, but now we're here.

Am I reading too much into this or is this strange behavior for a moderator to take immediately after getting a diamond?

Mea culpa. Take care all :)

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    First meta question about a new moderator: within 24 hours. Is this a record? :D
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 12:48
  • 9
    From a quick look through the transcripts, the room was only ever a "dumping place" for a couple of feeds. Other than that, there really hasn't been much activity at all. Out of 1178 messages in the 1.5 years the room existed, 753 were posted by the room's owner.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 12:56
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    The entire reason that room exists is because of the user's decline in behavior over about six months that finally got them kicked out of a different room. Then it was sustained with a similar title and tags with content-less, sporadic messages for months. This development doesn't inspire hope that the new mod's decision making process has improved.
    – davidism
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:20
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    Not that I really support the mod taking the action that they did, but why do we care? Why is there a problem with a room existing that nobody uses, where one mod posts questions to himself that nobody ever looks at? What was the reason the room was frozen in the first place?
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:25
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    @Servy The room was frozen because of site policies. The role of a moderator is to employ said policies and to use the new permissions to maintain the site (with an implicit goal of serving others). Actions such as these, especially in its expediency and immediacy, call the motivations of a moderator into question. Pre-existing concerns about user behavior act as compounding factors in this case.
    – user559633
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:33
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    @tristan Saying it was closed because of "site policies" is begging the question. What site policies did it violate to merit it being frozen? Like I said, I don't support the mod taking the action, but I'm just curious if you care because the mod unfroze a room he owned, or because the room actually shouldn't be unfrozen. I care about the former too, but nobody has yet given me a reason to care about the latter, and if the room actually does merit being unfrozen I only care a little bit about the owner being the one to do it.
    – Servy
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:38
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    This is an utter non-issue. Sure, it looks weird. But even as a non-mod, they could have started a new room with similar contents or asked a mod to unfreeze the room. I once asked to unfreeze a low-volume room with very sporadic conversations, and it was no issue at all. Framing the unfreezing as a violation of site policies is misleading – rooms are automatically frozen if no human posts there for some time. It's not like the freezing was a ban that was now being circumvented.
    – amon
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:42
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    @Cerbrus it was also manually frozen at some point before that, and the user received multiple warnings from mods for why they were using the room (and other rooms). It's not the room itself so much as all the history around it.
    – davidism
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:47
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    @davidism: Ah, I wasn't aware of that history.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 14:51
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    @davidism Yes, and the same mod who manually froze that room would later unfreeze it. After that, the room was automatically frozen for inactivity which was then reverted by Aaron Hall as discussed here. So, why did that first mod decide that the room was OK after all and should be unfrozen? Can you link to the “multiple warnings” and any public discussion on the original freezing & unfreezing? So far, I'm unable to find any references. I want to believe, but I won't believe source-less accusations.
    – amon
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 15:10
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    I would really love to see a different moderator/employee answer this question... Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 15:51
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    Is that a fair reduction of what is being discussed? No. so basically you have a history with this specific mod (that I can't comment on, I don't know either of you nor did I vote for Aaron) and you're using an entirely harmless moderator action to bring up that history?
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:21
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    OK, this is just getting silly. Please go for a walk or something, buy a turkey, make some eggnog.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 19:59
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    For anyone wondering about "The Conversation" (or one of them) that led to the creation of this other room, start reading here it goes on for a while. I'll let the users interested in reading this draw their own conclusions on the whole matter. IMO, while it is part of the reason I did not vote for said candidate, I think this whole meta question is unnecessary.
    – user4639281
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 20:57
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    That room would have been unfrozen by a moderator if, as a regular user, Aaron had asked for it to be unfrozen. The only thing that's changed is that now he can do it himself. It's really not worth raising a big thing about something so minor.
    – ArtOfCode
    Commented Nov 24, 2016 at 15:23

2 Answers 2

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Who cares?

Anyone with 100 reputation or more can create a new room at any time; he could've just done that. Moderators regularly unfreeze rooms upon request for members in good standing, just to save time; plenty of moderators have rooms of their own for the purpose of team discussions or "office hours", and unfreeze those periodically when they get frozen.

The purpose of freezing is to get rid of rooms that aren't being used, not punish folks for getting busy elsewhere...

That said, your real concern is that the room signals that Aaron will return to being a petty jackass over something or other with the main Python room. That would, of course, be bad. It would be bad if he wasn't a moderator, and now it would be even worse.

I trust he has better sense (and far too much to keep him busy) now than to do anything of the sort. But if that assumption doesn't hold, I would strongly encourage you to raise the red flag then—it'll carry a lot more weight if you don't jump the gun.

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    Thank you for this. I did not have any idea that people would get upset with me reopening a room. I'm sorry for the apparent conflict of interest, but it's something I've seen mods do over and over again for their own rooms - so as far as I know, it's something I'm supposed to do.
    – Aaron Hall Mod
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 16:31
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    Based on the timing of the edit on Aaron's answer immediately following yours, I assume that some coaching has been done; thank you. This isn't jumping the gun; this is smelling smoke and warning adults. You didn't correctly infer my real concern -- it's actually that the election system rewarded someone that doesn't act earnestly (e.g. his behavior in the comments on his answer) and adding a moderator with questionable intentions. I'm sorry, but we both know he didn't unfreeze the room for anything other than egotistical reasons.
    – user559633
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 16:36
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    @AaronHall it's not about re-opening the room. Search page for "You're doing it again." Just be honest and people will respect you for owning up to your actions.
    – user559633
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 16:37
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    @tristan that doesn't change the fact that criticizing someone for unfreezing a room that they could have just recreated with the click of a button looks pretty crazy.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:19
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    "it's actually that the election system rewarded someone that doesn't act earnestly (e.g. his behavior in the comments on his answer) and adding a moderator with questionable intentions" ... There we have it.
    – Bart
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:24
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    @Bart tl;dr: "I don't like this moderator; I said so during the nomination phase; people didn't listen to me; now I'll use anything to make him look bad." 2016 elections in a nutshell, eh
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:28
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    @tristan I don't know any of the backstory here so I'm seeing this fresh - what's the problem exactly? Are you complaining about the action that was taken, or are you complaining that the moderator has those powers to begin with? To a neutral it looks like you're using the first to make a point of the second. Does that cover it or is there more to it?
    – Clive
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:36
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    I don't know who you're referring to, I don't see any humour here but I'll assume you didn't mean me... Regardless, the comment you linked to doesn't explain anything in all honesty. Without real context, this looks a bit like a witch hunt from here. Feel like I have to clarify: I didn't vote for Aaron so I don't have a horse in this race
    – Clive
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:41
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    That's just careless advice, @Pekka웃. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? When the wolf did arrive, his proactive wolf-drills had the townsfolk well-prepared, and many a person thanked him over a bowl of hearty wolf-stew.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:45
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    @tristan Aaron may be bad moderator material as you say. He also may be great moderator material. He could also change either way now that he has the job. I really don't know; as said, I know nothing about him. But this action was the wrong action to call attention to his potentially being a bad moderator, because it was not a problematic action if looked at on its own (which is the only way most of us can look at it.) That's on you.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 18:48
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    For the record, if I am ever elected moderator, I am going to abuse the system in much more interesting and colourful ways. Promise!
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 19:33
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    @BoltClock "hmm. Why did Pekka♦ undelete all of Will's 20,000 meme comments? Weird. But it's Pekka; he must know what he's doing" ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 24, 2016 at 15:51
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    I will put my hat in the ring of stating that having seen @AaronHall here and at Academia - I consider him very knowledgeable and a good choice for moderator. Yet, I consider the OP's question valid and - considering the history with the entirety of the Python Room - something that needs to be asked. Maybe its just timing, maybe its just that a new moderator did not realize how much his actions will be scrutinized - but the action just screamed at some of us who were involved in the earlier drama. Reassurance from the new mod (and Shog9 with thanks) go a long way towards rebuilding trust. Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 17:55
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    @AaronHall What is given here by Shog9 is a start (administrative side) - that if a moderator (any, not just you) steps over a line or can be shown to not acting within the interest of the community then steps can be taken and procedures are in place. As to yourself specifically, "rebuilding" is a slower process so it just time and choices which show trust was placed in the correct hands. Servy's comment is close to my thoughts on your post Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 18:04
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    @AaronHall there are many ways you can defend yourself and your actions, but "the voters have spoken" is entirely irrelevant, and in light of recent voting events in the world, I would concentrate on your own side rather than on the results of various voting systems. I'm not trying to stretch on this debate, everybody has already said what they wanted; this is only some friendly suggestion for rhetoric. Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 20:11
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Am I reading too much into this or is this strange behavior for a moderator to take immediately after getting a diamond?

You're reading much in it. That is for sure. But it can't be denied that there was some history between the room you originated from and that other room.

As there is not much to go on, I think it had been better if this stayed history. However, that does need that all involved in the history making process play by that rule.

My gut feeling says that the moderator underestimated how much their actions are scrutinized by a dedicated group of users, specially in relation to that chatroom. It shows that their community sensibility needs adjustment.

On the other hand I find it difficult to decide if the concern you raise is valid. After all, you are kind of representing the other side and the occasional meta visitor doesn't have much means to get an unbiased view. Some readers might interpret your question as an attempt to give the moderator a false start.

At this moment I don't think there is much of issue in the unfreezing of said chatroom in itself. The moderator should have known it could raise some eyebrows. That is a lesson for the mod. But moderators are in the end also elected by more than just you and me. I would assume good faith for now.

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    "[It shows that their community sensibility needs adjustment.". Let's hope he'll do just that, something tells me that wouldn't be too bad. Commented Nov 23, 2016 at 19:39
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    "It shows that their community sensibility needs adjustment." Actually I disagree. Avoiding everything that potentially offends someone results in not doing anything. The community has to live with elected moderators using the site and leaving impressions. We shouldn't check every single moderator bit of action scrupulously or we won't have many moderators in the future - apart from the waste of resources doing that. There is a balance somewhere. Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 10:50
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    @Trilarion That specific sentence was formulated that way to express that a moderator needs to understand that when they were part of a conflict in the past between them and a group of users, the moderator better refrains from taking an action that gives the impression they didn't let go of what happened back then. There is a balance somewhere indeed. And plenty of other mods to consult: hey, that room I created when I got fed up with those other users is frozen. Do you think it is wise if it is unfrozen and if so, can you do it for me?
    – rene
    Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 11:14
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    What rene described is the kind of introspection and humility that should be the bare minimum for moderators. Hopefully these skills can be improved by learning. Commented Nov 25, 2016 at 13:46

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