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Currently, we (users of SO) are running a StackApp (application built on the Stack Exchange API), called Heat Detector, using both regular expressions and NLP (Natural Language Processing) on all comments. The goal of this project is to identify automatically offensive comments left throughout Stack Overflow. Earlier this year, we asked for a dump of abusive comments and, together with manual classifying on a lot of comments, we are now testing.

The flame-out comments from new users are often easy to classify but, every single day, we see a continuous flow of borderline rude comments from the regular users of Stack Overflow. Here's a sample of sanitized comments (pings have been removed):

This shows remarkably little effort.

please go back to reading some basic C# tutorials for beginners

Wow, you didn't even bother to write a proper sentence, why should anyone invest any of his time to answer this junk?

STFW. First result of googling react rails: github.com/reactjs/react-rails

my eyessssss they burn

This question was generated by a random word generator, right?

Ok. That's nice. Good luck with that. Did you have a programming question? This site is for questions, not a place to dump your christmas wish list

if you are only a beginner, first read some books and documentation. Then improve your English, because it is really bad (don't want to insult you). Then search in the English part of the Net for the things I wrote before. And use your head

But Object Pascal is not your sixties language. If you don't know much about a language (and that you don't is obvious) why comment on it, and even post that as answer? FWIW, you can learn all these things and a lot more with Object Pascal. Encapsulation is one of the most important tenets of OO, BTW. And no, you are not being helpful, nor are you answering the question. This answer should be deleted.

Please don't encourage people who don't bother to make the slightest effort.

You have a good rep now, why do you continue to answer the Low hanging fruit questions for people who are too lazy to even try and attempt to do something for themselves

No. Please stop bothering people to do your homework for you. This isn't what Stack Overflow is for.

Your question looks as crap. You should improve your text formatting. Here is a quick tutorial for that.

we are not here to write your code. And not here to use Google for you. Keep your wisdom to yourself about other members, that is not welcome here.

The Be Nice policy states clearly that "If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does". Furthermore, reading these Meta and blog posts:

it seems fairly clear that these should be flagged as "offensive" or "non-constructive". Also, if an OP cannot keep their cool, it will eventually lead to flame posts. However these comments were hand-picked because of their frequent appearance on the site (or variations of them), they are mostly by "high-rep" users, some are with declined non-constructive flags and one is a comment from a moderator (later edited to be less offensive).

With such a mixed response, the question is:

Should such comments be included in the "bad feed" of a classifier or not? Do we want to hunt down such comments by an automatic system looking for rudeness?

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  • 54
    This shows remarkably little effort. Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 14:56
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    I believe you are focused on solving the wrong problem. If you dealt with the poor quality questions that prompt these comments, the comments would no longer be an issue. Very few of them are obviously inappropriate, they're just blunt. And very likely correct.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 14:59
  • 57
    Telling someone something they don't want to hear isn't being rude. Informing someone of why their question is problematic, (say, because they didn't do their research) is them being helpful. A handful of your examples could phrase their information a bit less antagonistically, but almost all of them are inherently constructive at their core.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:01
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    Nobody here is going to appreciate your efforts because most of the people who use meta are the same people posting these rude, barely over the bar for constructiveness comments. It's unfortunate that the culture here on SO is one of snark and snobbiness to newbies. But I'm not sure how that could actually be changed in practice. It is annoying when people help vampire and what not. But reading your comments made me sad.
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:01
  • 36
    @eddie, It's unfortunate that the culture here on SO is one of snark and snobbiness to newbies. First, that's not the "culture" of everyone in the community. Second, I believe at least some of SO's success comes from the fact we actively reject poor-quality questions -- and snarky comments can be made when you stumble on your 30th bad question in a single day. Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:04
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    @FrédéricHamidi I didn't say everyone in the community is a snarky snob. But if you can't see how aggressive this community can be towards new people, and not in a friendly way, I don't think we will ever be able to have a constructive conversation. And I get it, it's annoying to deal with bad questions. But it's also sad that someone can pick out a selection of comments like this. It's really unwelcoming and a lot of them are based on the asker's English skill level and come across more as making fun of people than trying to raise quality.
    – eddie_cat
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:06
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    Yes, @eddie, the comments look bad out of context. Petter is doing this intentionally, that's why I'm calling him out on it. What would really make you sad is to see the questions that these comments were responding to. If we fix this, then we won't have a comment-snark problem. (Or, if we still do, we can deal with it more effectively and severely.) It is not at all true that the "culture" of Stack Overflow is that of "snark and snobbiness to newbies". Rather, it is a culture of intolerance for low-quality posts. There is a major difference. It doesn't matter if you're a newbie or not.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:07
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    @eddie It is not the job of our users to be welcoming to people who have not bothered to familiarize themselves with our policies and expectations. The real rudeness is showing up somewhere and behaving in a way that is inappropriate for that forum. We've had this discussion countless times on Meta. If you want to actually solve the problem, focus on the root of it: users who show up and have "not taken the time to read meta or the help section". It might be "one hundred percent natural", but we shouldn't encourage it. Rather, we should put mechanisms in place to help them before they start.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:11
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    Why is everyone shifting the discussion from the comments to the questions? This discussion is NOT about posts. It is NOT about quality on the site and it definitely is NOT about starting flame wars about OPs and the help center. It is most definitely about comments and their appropriateness on the site.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:15
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    @Renan Hmm no, Heat Detector is an app made by users here, that you can visit and use on StackApps. But that is tangential to the question. The on-topicness is: suppose you have to system whose purpose is to catch rudeness, should it catch that, and why?
    – Tunaki
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:21
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    This shows remarkably little effort. I don't see how that comment could be interpreted as rude. my eyessssss they burn isn't rude, if anything it could be flagged as too chatty or not constructive. And this one.. Please don't encourage people who don't bother to make the slightest effort. How can this be construed as rude? I get the overall concept of what you're trying to do, however, I think these types of comments would be better off being flagged organically.
    – matt.
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:30
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    @Cody I believe you are focused on solving the wrong problem. If you dealt with the poor quality questions that prompt these comments, the comments would no longer be an issue. disagreed - that's (very roughly) like saying if we dealt with all the criminals, we wouldn't have to talk about police brutality. There's always going to be bad questions; there's no call to be overly blunt even to the most idiotic question. Many of the examples shown above are factually correct but inappropriate in tone, IMO. The OP is never the only one reading the comments and they form people's image of SO
    – Pekka
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:49
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    I think referring to these as "borderline" is being overly generous to the people that left them.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:59
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    I'm really angry none of my comments made it into the sample.
    – user1228
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 16:47
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    I'm not joking that I can't understand how a comment such as This shows remarkably little effort. to a question that shows remarkably little effort can ever be seen as offensive
    – Lamak
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 19:25

6 Answers 6

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My take: if flagged, I'd delete almost all of these. At best, they are too confrontational and at worst outright rude. At the very least, there are better ways of expressing everything in these examples.

I've stated this on several occasions: all people deserve to be treated politely and with respect, even if you feel they have not earned it. While it may feel good to vent after seeing yet another bad question, remember that there are real people on the other end of that screen.

These comments aren't just seen by the people leaving questions and answers, they are also seen by any future visitor who happens to stop by via a Google search. It does not reflect well on you or this site to demean the experience or intelligence of posters in comments, which is why I'll remove comments like this if I see them.

There are constructive and helpful ways to express that someone can improve their questions or answers, for those who have any hope of improving. For those who don't, just downvote, vote to close, and move on. Don't waste your time with mocking comments.

You're probably seeing these pop up in your analysis because comments like this have already been flagged and deleted in the data set you were provided. I think it's safe to say that we'll continue to delete comments like this if flagged. Just make sure you manually review these before flagging, to make sure your model stays on track. We've not always had the best experience with automatic flagging of posts.

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    Thanks for your answer, yes we have no plan on automatic flagging and we have been in contact with mods to avoid nuking stuff that they would like to see (hence on repetitive very rude comments, we flag posts for moderator intervention) Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 15:43
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    @Kyll - I'm not terribly excited about a chatroom gathering together to coordinate flags on content in order to automatically delete it. I think it's helpful to have an outside party review these comments to provide another perspective. Also, if there's a pattern of abusive comments, moderators won't know about it if they're silently deleted via coordinated flags (that's another moderator tooling issue to be addressed).
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 16:09
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    Just to clarify, the "rude or offensive" flag is appropriate for those comments, right? There's not some reason (like there is for post flags) for it to be declined? (I've been using the "not constructive" flag reason.)
    – Laurel
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 16:11
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    @Laurel - "rude or offensive" comment flags tend to be processed faster than "not constructive" ones, so I'd recommend using the former for truly rude stuff that should be removed immediately and the latter for more snarky or borderline comments that weren't quite as bad. There aren't any special differences between the two, but it helps us triage things to act on.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 16:14
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    @PetterFriberg - I think this extends beyond tooling. I have significant reservations about coordinated flags from any chatroom, given past experience. It's all too easy to build a posse in a chatroom and enact a little vigilante justice. If a party outside of the chatroom also reviews these, the chances of things getting out of hand are reduced.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 21:40
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    The problem with this answer is "if flagged": there might be a question so deserving of some of those comments (especially the low quality questions) that almost no user on the site is going to bother flagging the question because they feel the same way.
    – dave
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 11:40
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    I (and others) find it seriously off-putting that you would delete helpful comment such as "please go back to reading some basic C# tutorials for beginners". If you consider this rude the vast majority of my comments and quite a few of my answers can probably be considered rude. Whatever "rude" actually is, since this strongly depends on cultural norms and there seems to be a strong cultural bias among moderators regarding this classification.
    – Roland
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 11:58
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    I do not agree that please go back to reading some basic C# tutorials for beginners is a helpful comment. People know they can learn stuff by doing tutorials. If someone didn't do any tutorials to learn the basics and came to SO instead (likely because they are too lazy), telling them to go do a tutorial is not going to motivate them to do so. I agree, such comments are not really rude, but they are not helpful either, you seem to have mixed the 2. (also see Jeffrey's answer). It's not necessarily about if they are rude or not, but about if they warrant deletion/do they need to stay
    – Tim
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 13:01
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    @TimCastelijns If they see such a comment, usually the appropriate action by the moderator should be to delete the whole question. That would get rid of the comment too. Sadly, it seems to be easier to just delete comments which express to the OP that their question in its current form is not welcome at the site and also explain how they can solve their particular problem.
    – Roland
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:06
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    "please go back to reading some basic C# tutorials for beginners" isn't helpful or constructive, as it doesn't really provide anything actionable. A helpful comment would be "It seems you have a misconception about X, I'd recommend reading this: [documentation / tutorial]". That's more specific, and could be helpful for future visitors in addition to the current poster. Comments are second-class citizens and are easy to delete for a reason. Trust me, I delete a lot of awful questions, but a single comment generally doesn't make a question deletion-worthy.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 14:25
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    @PetterFriberg - Re: the tooling side of this, I've filed a feature request for some functionality I'd like to see: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/284053/…
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 15:20
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    Nice terminology - confrontational. A far more appropriate flag description IMO, "rude/offensive" is so easily tripped over by someone with long toes.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:46
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    While it may feel good to vent after seeing yet another bad question, remember that there are real people on the other end of that screen. Absolutely agree with this answer. Relevant XKCD
    – DJMcMayhem
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 17:30
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    Agree. Just downvote. Playing smart and insulting or making fun of the OP is useless. Too many "genius" with no respect for the others. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 17:54
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    Remember Hanlon's Razor before you put the rude definition on something that is just curt or direct. Rude carries a very strong semantic implies malice, which is unfair on just about everything being debated in this question/comments.
    – user177800
    Commented Sep 14, 2016 at 15:19
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These comments should be removed, not because they're rude (though some are), but because they are useless. They aren't going to change the recipient's behavior, but they may make it worse. Leaving them as-is risks antagonizing other users as well. There's no upside, but some downside.

It may feel nice to give these people a piece of one's mind, but it's best for the site to just downvote and move on.

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    "These people don't care how you react; they're looking for the one guy that will actually do their homework for them (some people will). Consequently, your negative comment will have no effect on the OP, and will only succeed in irritating your fellow community members and alienating new visitors to the site..." (Robert Harvey, my permanent source of inspiration)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 21:32
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    Read more in his community meta Etiquette for posting civil and informative comments Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 21:48
  • Agreed. If you go so far as to make a comment like this, you very likely also downvoted. So removing the comment still leaves the downvote as a signal towards the author - there is absolutely no loss here.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:52
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I think it's important to separate these into two categories: abusive comments and not constructive comments. Abusive comments are those which contain either insults or no actual useful information. Like these:

Wow, you didn't even bother to write a proper sentence, why should anyone invest any of his time to answer this junk?

STFW. First result of googling react rails: github.com/reactjs/react-rails

The others are either snark or sincere advice to stop what they're doing and go learn more before asking on SO. The former are clearly non-constructive. How "not constructive" you consider the latter to be is up to your interpretation.

Do we want to hunt down such comments by an automatic system looking for rudeness?

No.

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    Thanks for your answer I would appreciate if you can elaborate why un-friendly snarky comments should not be included, since I have always seen them as the main issue to later offensive comments (which sometimes leads to user suspension) and the fact whether one flag un-constructive or offensive is not relevant. Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 19:24
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    @PetterFriberg: "the fact whether one flag un-constructive or offensive is not relevant." Actually, it is relevant. Someone who repeatedly posts genuinely abusive comments is someone who should probably be sanctioned. Someone who posts non-constructive advice is at least trying to be helpful. Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 19:45
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    and you think that OP manage to appreciate the helpful comment and learn from it? or the policy is that they should learn from it and if they get angry we flag their offensive comments? Sorry but I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts why we should not delete these comments Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 19:56
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    @PetterFriberg: If you extend a hand to someone and they slap it away, how exactly should that be your fault? "Sorry but I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts why we should not delete these comments" As I said, it's up to your interpretation whether they are "not constructive". I don't believe that we need an automated tool for finding such things. Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 20:04
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Should such comments be included in the "bad feed" of a classifier or not?

Yes, with the exception of:

No. Please stop bothering people to do your homework for you. This isn't what Stack Overflow is for.

This one sounds like the person the commentor is speaking to has posted either multiple questions asking for this or has been posting the same question over and over (which happens more than you'd think). I think someone asking someone else to please stop a bad behavior is OK.

Do we want to hunt down such comments by an automatic system looking for rudeness?

That depends on how often this happens:

some are with declined non-constructive flags and one is a comment from a moderator (later edited to be less offensive).

If I were so inclined to spend some time flagging bad comments, would most of my flags get declined? I wouldn't see a point in trying to get rid of rude comments if, in practice, rude comments are actually OK.

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  • What is your final conclusion?, we include them, but no use since they are ok? Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 17:14
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    @PetterFriberg - Include them, with the exception of the one I pointed out.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 17:17
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    I remember the "please stop bothering people..." comment (or one just like it--there could be multiple). It was left by a moderator after multiple "please help this is urgent" comments by the OP on a first post. I do not think I would word the message as the moderator did, but I am sympathetic to the moderator's frustration. Commented Aug 30, 2016 at 17:11
  • @Wayne, you are correct, it was not a comment we flagged, furthermore as stated it was edited to become a constructive comment, however in it's initial state it fitted well the "border-line" comments, that we need feedback on. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 11:29
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Prelude:

I agree that automatation is preferred when and if it can be implemented, even if there is some margin of error or false positives, they are just comments after all. That said, anything that flags things as rude as is discussed below has the potential to affect a users social reputation with the mods ( or other human reviewers ) that review the flags and if they constantly see a single user that is just blunt/curt/direct or some clique does not like them; they will be punitive to them, probably unconsciously at best. That is just human nature and is fundamentally unfair.

Hanlon's Razor:

Hanlon's razor is an aphorism expressed in various ways including "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," or "Don't assume bad intentions over neglect and misunderstanding."

I think one persons opinion on what might be rude is way to subjective and assigns way too much malice where there is none, and way too much character assassination which is hypocritical given the "Be Nice" policy which is being invoked and then ignored by the invoker.

Out of all of those examples the only ones I think that objectively qualify for flagging is:

But Object Pascal is not your sixties language. If you don't know much about a language (and that you don't is obvious) why comment on it, and even post that as answer? FWIW, you can learn all these things and a lot more with Object Pascal. Encapsulation is one of the most important tenets of OO, BTW. And no, you are not being helpful, nor are you answering the question. This answer should be deleted.

Definition:

  1. offensively impolite or ill-mannered.
  2. roughly made or done; lacking subtlety or sophistication.

I am pretty sure the Rude definition in the flag is more concerned with malicious intent to cause harm or insult than just lack of subtlety or sophistication.

The Examples:

Are some of them worded poorly, yes.

Are some of them curt, yes.

Are some of them pointing out the obvious, yes.

Are some of them all of these and more, yes.

Are all of them telling someone something they don't want to hear, yes.

None of those things deserved to be labeled malicious as in the offensively impolite or ill-mannered. which reeks of intentional malice, to do so is pretty hypocritical in application.

Do comments on questions/answers that are roughly made or done; lacking subtlety or sophistication. have to meet a higher bar for some arbitrary reason?

I believe if we should apply the overly lenient rules for Not An Answer flagging to things like this as well. Anything that is an attempt to answer no matter how awful is declined, it is can even be remotely considered an attempt to answer.

Just because one person thinks something is rude does not make it so, and there is a trend with the current moderators to give passive-aggressive social justice warrior types the benefit of the doubt because they use flowery pleasantries and smile while they are stabbing people in the back. Whereas someone that dispenses with the pleasantries and is just being directly and forthright gets sanctioned and is powerless to defend themselves from the public shaming attacks on their character because they are being direct in their defense.

There is a disturbing trend that you can accuse people of anything and everything, make personal attacks and other abusive behavior, but as long as you feign politeness you don't get moderated.

This is passive-aggressive bullying and should be less tolerated than the more honest/direct criticisms.

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  • Thanks Jarrod for your answer, I see your point "passive-aggressive bullying", wondering however if this is more a meta issue or also on main site?. However, related to the comments my idea still is (even if I'm getting really tired of them as I'm of bad question), that it is just p** on cr#p and I prefer to pick up the cr#p while it is still dry, less work for everybody. Commented Sep 14, 2016 at 15:34
  • @PetterFriberg - the intent is good, I don't think there is an implemenation that can be fair, because it is subjective. I am ASD, no amount of telling me something I might be writing is subjectively rude will correct future posts from not offending someone else in the same manner. Does not automatically mean I am an asshole, it more likely means someone else is just looking to be offended.If an automated system floods the queue with comments from me regardless of their objective tone, I am sure to get punished either way, this has already happened btw.
    – user177800
    Commented Sep 14, 2016 at 15:47
  • Just to be clear the system is not automated to flag, it only notifies if classifier hits certain threshold limits. I have currently not updated the original feed, we still need to process all the comments that where collected and before classifying understand how the community see the "snark issue" Commented Sep 14, 2016 at 15:58
-1

I think most of these definitely should be deleted, so "hunting" them with an automatic system could be useful. But there is one example you brought that is, IMHO, not a comment that should be flagged/deleted:

Please don't encourage people who don't bother to make the slightest effort.

It may sound a bit harsh, but it's neither rude nor "not constructive" - it may be not constructive for the actual question, but it definitely does have valid point. There is something quite similar:

This shows remarkably little effort.

This is something that should be flagged, because it doesn't even try to encourage the OP to improve the question. The other comment, however, reminds someone who answered that answering poor questions isn't encouraged.

I don't know how good your automatic system is going to be, but distinguishing between such comments could prove to be quite difficult.

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    Yes that comment was on an answer (from a person putting lot of effort to moderate SO, I personally really appreciate his effort), however "who don't bother to make the slightest effort." is fairly offensive specially if OP of question is new user. I understand that every new users should read and learn about SO, but maybe a more constructive/professional version is "off-topic question" or a link to this meta explaining why it is not good to encourage. Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:09
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    @PetterFriberg I agree the intent could be expressed better or more polite, but it's spot on - if the author of the comment also left a comment for the OP, which requests more information/code/whatever, it's completly ok to comment with a bit more harsh choice of words to an answerer who should know better (since this isn't the new user) Commented Aug 31, 2016 at 13:25

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