62

I love hats too, but this user loves hats way too much:

In the past 10 minutes they edited 5 old posts, probably for a hat.

Each one of these posts only add a few back-ticks.

Is this something that these hats are encouraging?


To people saying this might be improving the post or I would have edited the same way. Well, how about these posts?

One, Two, Three, Four, Five

These edits do nothing but add or remove a space.

(In certain contexts this might improve the edit, i.e formatting a single line of code, but clearly this isn't the case)

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  • 9
    Sigh...what can you do, really?
    – Makoto
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 2:50
  • 8
    What's that? A hat? Sorry, I have kids
    – codeMagic
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 3:41
  • Haha just had this very very insignificant editing on an old question
    – NSNoob
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:43
  • 11
    sigh. Despite complaints about last year's hats we have hats that while apparently encouraging good behaviour lead to less than desirable results.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 12:31
  • 5
    Why are you so bothered?
    – user1017882
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 16:34
  • 31
    @JᴀʏMᴇᴇ because large numbers of spurious actions in order to gain points or badges have historically been a scourge on these sites and are an active threat to the morale of those who actually contribute for the sake of contributing. Also, because every one of those actions pushes the post up for peer review, they waste an incredible amount of other people's time.
    – Pekka
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:18
  • 8
    Hey! 2 more downvotes on this, and you'll have earned the Sun Wukong hat - very crafty!
    – Mogsdad
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 2:01
  • 1
    -1 to help you earn the Sun Wukong hat :)
    – user4151918
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 2:23
  • 1
    It's like the government: if you subsidize something you get more of it.
    – nicomp
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 15:56
  • 8
    By this logic, isn't the Archaeologist badge 20x worse than this hat? :)
    – Dan Lowe
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 16:31
  • 1
    Sun Wokung? I don't remember he wore a hat. Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 17:00
  • 3
    Would the whole issue of minor edits disappear if there was a minimum edit size required to bump the post to the top of the queue? Is there any other reason that minor, useful edits should be discouraged?
    – Tyler
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 17:21
  • 3
    Did the edits make the post better even if they were only a backtick? Yes! Then what is the problem.
    – Toby Allen
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 18:14
  • 3
    If you offer hats for such things, you must assume people will bother do anything "legal" to get them. Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 18:35

3 Answers 3

38

Do you think these edits improve the post? Okay, maybe they're not the most substantial... but did any harm come of the edit? Would you have rejected such an edit with this reason?

This edit does not make the post even a little bit easier to read, easier to find, more accurate or more accessible. Changes are either completely superfluous or actively harm readability.

Alright, we can admit these edits are fairly trivial. But they do make the post (albeit slightly) easier to read. And that's the whole point of editing. Yes, one person can make a post pristine and perfectly easy to read... but that almost never happens. Instead, you can have a series of more minor edits. Or perhaps only one or two minor edits are needed.

So are hats encouraging bad behavior? To some extent, yes. But the good they encourage also needs to be taken into account. Was it essential to edit those posts? No. But it makes them easier to read, and as a side effect, bumps the post making more people read the questions and answers.

Maybe those edits weren't essential, but they did have a net positive impact. And if that's the effect hats have overall on the site... I think they've accomplished their goal.


Alright, I took a second look at some of these edits (while I'm less tired than when I wrote this answer), and while they don't disgust me, they're certainly not good. They did slightly improve the post, but not to much of an extent. I'm really not sure there's a good way to prevent this problem -- you could add additional requirements to earning said hats, but that likely would generate more -- not less -- problems.

However, it is important to note that nothing bad came of these edits. No content was destroyed; no people were hurt. So while I don't agree with these edits, I don't disagree with them either. Winter Bash is meant to encourage positive actions (similar to badges), and while these weren't the best of edits, the hat did encourage someone who had made ~20 edits previously to make an additional 5 edits. Perhaps that's more important than whether a few edits were too minor or not.

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    I would have rejected the edit, and banned the user for 4 weeks. i.sstatic.net/u6PBy.jpg
    – Pekka
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:24
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    Meh; I wish more people thought like you. One of my edits is going through review right now, and it's looking like it'll be rejected. I fixed lots of bad indenting in the code that made it hard to read (example: an "if" statement being indented further than its contents), but people are marking it as "does not make the post even a little bit easier to read." It's subjective, I know, but every little really does help.
    – TwoStraws
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:36
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    Ah; it looks like it got approved 3-2. If it was one of you, thank you!
    – TwoStraws
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:45
  • 2
    @TwoStraws The owner of the post approved it, so it was immediately approved :)
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 13:05
  • 1
    @Rob: Ah! As good an endorsement as you can get, I guess :)
    – TwoStraws
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 13:06
  • 2
    @TwoStraws Why do you add so many whitespaces at the end of a line (e.g. in the first two lines)?
    – Tom
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:02
  • 2
    @Tom Trailing whitespace wasn't visible while I was editing; it wasn't intentional.
    – TwoStraws
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:04
  • @TwoStraws Oh ok. I see this very often and I always wonder why someone would add them, since they have no purpose.
    – Tom
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:06
  • 4
    @Tom Yeah. I recently added a plugin to Sublime that highlights trailing whitespace in hot pink – makes it much easier to spot and remove!
    – TwoStraws
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:07
  • 1
    Note that 2 whitespaces at the end of a line is the same as <br>. @TwoStraws
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 22:58
  • 3
    -1 for secret reason! shh! Happy Winter Bash :)
    – user4151918
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 2:52
  • Do you think these edits improve the post? Okay, maybe they're not the most substantial... but did any harm come of the edit? - Those are different things. Not harmful edits are not useful per say, and "no improvement whatsoever" is one of the reasons to reject an edit.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 18:09
  • @GolezTrol Yes, but this user has 2k rep. They didn't need to get their edit reviewed, and they didn't need to waste anyone's time with their edit. The whole point of that reason is to a) avoid bumping posts with useless edits (pertinent to smaller sites -- Stack Overflow has hundreds of posts modified in a given period though) and b) avoid wasting reviewers' time (but that user didn't need a review for their edit, and thus wasted no time).
    – hichris123
    Commented Dec 16, 2015 at 1:17
  • The fact that you have enough rep to edit without reviewing, doesn't mean that you should do those kind of edits that would otherwise be discarded. Less time wasted, but also a bad example set.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Dec 16, 2015 at 12:57
21

Personally, I see nothing wrong with people editing a few old posts to get a hat, as long as the edits leave things in better shape than before.

Old posts don't get attention because, well, they are old. That's probably why we have a hat dedicated to this task, just like we have badges dedicated to it (Excavator, Archaeologist). If these things help old posts end up cleaner than before, what harm is there in it?

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    @pnuts: Beyond common sense, reaching perfection is hard. Many times while editing I ponder on the way a sentence is formed, but since I am not a native speaker I hesitate in altering it thinking that the OP might just speak in a way I do not know yet... Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 18:49
  • @MatthieuM. I am a native English speaker, but I still have trouble reaching perfection in editing, because half the time while working on a lengthy edit, someone else edits before you, and you are left either having wasted your time, or else spending extra time resolving their edit with yours, or else clobbering what they've done. There's a built-in incentive to work quickly, unless the post is already starting to age (which is not the case in review, certainly).
    – Dan Lowe
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 18:51
  • @DanLowe: I stay away from review for this very reason, and just edit the posts I come by, taking my sweet time. I have the advantage of mostly watching the Rust tag which is still low traffic :) Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 19:07
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Here's what I think:

Hats? People will do anything to get a hat! It'll be anarchy! Hatarchy!

Worry not! All normal site rules still apply. If you're caught sockpuppeting for hats, you will be suspended, just as you would be normally.

Then, what's our site rules about editing ?

Tiny, trivial edits are discouraged - try to make the post significantly better when you edit, correcting all problems that you observe.


Yeah...the funny part is I've just done something like that to get that hat...however This is meant to be a fun end-of-year celebration.

So have fun, Happy new year! (wait, too early to say that?)


But! don't keeping try to get all of the hats, then It'll be anarchy!, have fun, move on, but keep this in your mind: We're on Stack Overflow.

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    Finding 5 old posts which need much editing is easy, no need for gaming it. If you have no preference, just look into helping out with any clean-up or burninate-request. Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:10
  • @Deduplicator: Well, that's a good idea in this case.
    – Remi Guan
    Commented Dec 14, 2015 at 11:23
  • So the rules don't apply during the end-of-year celebration, or...?
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 16:32
  • @TylerH: Huh, what I want to say is: We're celebrating, don't because little things and broken the end-of-year celebration. But however, don't do anything to get the hats. Like caught sockpuppeting for hats.
    – Remi Guan
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 21:02
  • @KevinGuan My comment was a little bit of a joke I admit, though I feel like your explanation is missing several key words :-)
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 22:53
  • @TylerH: What are these? You know that my English isn't good :P
    – Remi Guan
    Commented Dec 15, 2015 at 22:54

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