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Current version of the C# tag on Stack Overflow:

C# is a multi-paradigm programming language encompassing strong typing, imperative, declarative, functional, generic, object-oriented (class-based), and component-oriented programming disciplines.

Version introduced by JohnnBlade in 2012:

C# (pronounced cee sharp) is a multi-paradigm programming language encompassing strong typing, imperative, declarative, functional, generic, object-oriented (class-based), and component-oriented programming disciplines. It was developed by Microsoft within its .NET initiative and later approved as a standard by Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270:2006). C# is one of the programming languages designed for the Common Language Infrastructure.

Current version on Wikipedia:

C# (pronounced as see sharp) is a multi-paradigm programming language encompassing strong typing, imperative, declarative, functional, generic, object-oriented (class-based), and component-oriented programming disciplines. It was developed by Microsoft within its .NET initiative and later approved as a standard by Ecma (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270:2006). C# is one of the programming languages designed for the Common Language Infrastructure.

Version introduced by an anonymous user in 2008:

C# (pronounced C Sharp) is a multi-paradigm programming language that encompasses functional, imperative, generic and object-oriented (class-based) programming disciplines. It is developed by Microsoft as part of the .NET initiative and later approved as a standard by ECMA (ECMA-334) and ISO (ISO/IEC 23270). Anders Hejlsberg, the designer of Delphi, leads development of the C# language, which has an object-oriented syntax based on C++ and includes influences from aspects of several other programming languages (most notably Delphi and Java) with a particular emphasis on simplification.

The text of the excerpt has been like this for three years (see the revision history). Furthermore, it was edited 12 times, last time a month ago, approved by even more reviewers, yet not a single person noticed the blatant copy-paste. Considering C# is the third most popular tag on the website and countless users see this text every day, I find this troubling.

Could someone fix the text? English is my second language, so I'd rather avoid messing it up myself.

P. S. Why can't I flag wiki?

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  • Relevant: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238339/…
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 3:31
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    Wikipedia content is GNU FDL and Creative Commons licensed, with a version of the license that requires attribution (e.g. a link back to the wiki page.) So you could equally describe it as failure to follow the Wikipedia license terms. I think it's almost equally important that it's a bad tag excerpt, regardless of where it came from. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 10:21
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    Sometimes SO looks like a split brain to me. Some people care about plagiarism from Wikipedia, which is supposed to be an open source of information to everyone. Yet some other people tell you straight-faced, that C+P of clearly copyrighted content in a question from a source which explicitly forbids posting exactly that content on any other site is not something that SO has to take care of, because it is not SO's problem. Well, if that's the wisdom of the crowd ...
    – JensG
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 10:22
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    @JensG: if the copy/paste had been worth keeping, I'd be strongly in favour of fixing it to properly follow the license. When I've copy/pasted stuff from Agner Fog's optimization guide, I def. make sure to say that's where it was from, with his name, and a link, and the section number within the doc that I'm quoting. Partly because I think anyone that it's essential reading for people that like to optimize code, but also because it's his work. Even though it's free, the copyright terms don't allow any reproduction. (So I limit quoting to "fair use".) Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 10:28
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    So basically, I strongly disagree with anyone that claims violating copyrights in SO posts or wikis is ok. People that notice should edit the posts to quote the source. IDK about imposing penalties for people that do it. But maybe, to reduce repeat violations. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 10:30
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    @JensG It's almost like StackOverflow isn't a single entity with one brain but multiple thousands of people with distinct lives and opinions? Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 20:38
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    since SO is not governed by rules of academic writing - the issue of plagiarism is moot. Also reuse of Wikipedia's content is allowed and even encouraged - though within the scope of its licence. One should be aware that Wikipedia has amended it licence in recent years. Finally it is unlikely that Wikipedia or its Authors will file a copyright suit against SO. Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 8:33
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    @OrenBochman “plagiarism” is the appropriate word to describe an action that's immoral even when it's not technically illegal, and that is often technically illegal, even outside academia. And I fail to see what “it's unlikely that Wikipedia will file a copyright suit” has to do with whether it's plagiarism, with whether it's immoral and with whether it's illegal. Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 9:12
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    Remarkable how this question morphed from an accusation of copyright violation into an accusation of plagiarism. Totally different concepts, it is neither. Fixing the Wikipedia Creative Commons demand is rather trivial, just edit and add the link. Drama averted. Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 9:15
  • The main part of this tag is just a short, unspecific list of properties. I am not a lawyer, but wonder whether something like this can really be a "copyright infringement". (I considered to recommend adding attribution, because failure to follow the proper procedures would place the copier at risk of an infringement suit, but I don't know how to say this without placing me at risk of an infringement suit...)
    – Marco13
    Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 10:26
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    @HansPassant First, adding a link isn't trivial, tag excerpts don't support formatting, including links. Well, an unclickable link is legally fine I guess, but it's neither fair nor useful. Second, tag excerpts are displayed every time a tag is hovered on a page or added to a question. Do we really want to see a link to Wikipedia there? Are thousands of programmers on SO incapable of describing one of the most popular tags? Overall, it would look very silly.
    – Athari
    Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 10:42
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    Is it just my computer or does anyone else's search discover that the Wikipedia excerpt came from the Microsoft Store? Perhaps Microsoft's copywriters are plagiarizing Wikipedia as well.
    – user4039065
    Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 20:17
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    @Jeeped, that link is to an app that someone created by pasting Wikipedia content and linking to other content. Nothing to do with Microsoft copywriters. Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 2:18
  • It's far more useful to look at the Wikipedia version that existing when the wiki suggestion was made: en.wikipedia.org/w/… from which the tag wiki is an exact copy+paste, not a paraphrase as this question incorrectly suggests.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 2:19
  • @BenVoigt I'm not sure why you think this question implies that the tag wiki is paraphrasing Wikipedia...?
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 3:42

2 Answers 2

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What's the problem with wikis and excerpts?

Let's not discuss a single tag wiki, but focus on the common practice of writing and accepting tag wikis and excerpts that are:

  1. Plagiarism, usually from Wikipedia
  2. Totally awful, according to the guidelines for writing excerpts (This will be the subject of a different question)

These two problems need a joint community effort to improve the situation.

What should be done to improve the copyright issue with wikis

If there's borrowed content either in the excerpt or the full wiki, follow the requirements of the license agreement of that content. This can include:

  1. Completely deleting the content, if you're not allowed to use it.
  2. Adding a reference and/or link to the author and the source.

    like this 1

    1: Author: John Smith. Source: link. Licensed under CC-BY-SA.

What can be done to prevent further copyright violation in wikis.

That's a complex question and I lack experience to provide a ready and working answer. But here are some ideas to discuss:

  1. A separate review queue for wiki edits? They are not as multiple as ordinary edits, but require much less attention and reviewer expertise.

    Users, who repeatedly make an edit that fails copyright review, should be blocked from further edits of tag wikis [for a time | permanently]

  2. The instructions, shown on the wiki editing page should be improved.

    1. Add a short guide on dealing with copyrighted content.
    2. Maybe, simple English should be used. Lots of readers are not native speakers. (Again, it's a subject of a different question if SO should be adapted to them and if it would help.)

    This disclaimer should appear on the sidebar, or maybe even right above the excerpt text field:

    If you are copying any part of either wiki or excerpt from other source, always follow the license agreement of that source. This can include attribution to the author and other requirements. ([see the manual on copyright issues)](url-to-a-manual-on-copyright-issues))

    The sidebar text may be improved too. (Is the term "usage guidance" used elsewhere on the network?)

    The usage guidance, or **tag wiki excerpt**, is a short blurb instruction that describes when and why a tag should be used on this site specifically.

    Define the concept behind the tag in a short sentence. Focus on how to use this tag and how to ask a good answer on it.

  3. Maybe some plagiarism-detecting tool can be employed here, so that a wiki with borrowed text will show a warning to the editor on the confirmation attempt.

    The system detects borrowed content in this edit. Please make sure that you abide by the terms of a license agreement. Don't use content that you're not allowed to. Always give a reference to the author or/and source of the content.


Further text doesn't answer the question.

It addresses two other problems, one is connected to wikis and other is a general issue. I'm going to make separate posts out of it. But until then it stays here and you're welcome to read and discuss.

Improving wikis and excerpts besides the copyright issue

Full wikis

  1. Make sure that it explains well how and where to use the tag.
  2. Add an instruction on how to ask a good question with this tag (or give a link to it)

Wiki excerpts

  1. Provide basic guidance on when to use the tag.
  2. Add disambiguation note, where necessary.
  3. Add a note on complementary tags.
  4. Reduce descriptions for popular and common-knowledge tags. Nobody reads the excerpt to learn about the subject. There's the full wiki, books, and the whole internet for that.

The "hereditary disease" problem.

The Stack Overflow (in English) is the origin of a growing family of localized SO sites. Users on those sites look up to the SO standards and try to follow them.

A problem emerged when a new user proposed an edit to a tag wiki excerpt on Stack Overflow in Russian. That edit was just two sentences, copied from Wikipedia. The edit was rejected and the editor explained that since this is the default style for wikis on SO, then it should be acceptable on RU.SO.

So, it's a double responsibility. Stack Overflow is an example to all of the localized SO sites, and maybe to many other sites on the network. Let's make it a good example.

Why copied text is always a bad tag wiki excerpt

I'd like to emphasize that any text, copy-pasted from Wikipedia's definition of any subject is never good for tag wiki excerpts.

Citing from Jeff Atwood's post on SE blog (emphasis mine):

Here's a few words of advice on writing tag wiki excerpts:

  1. The excerpt is the elevator pitch for the tag. You only have ~500 plain text characters for the excerpt, so don't feel obligated to cover everything in it! Save that for the 30,000+ character Markdown tag wiki. The excerpt should define the shared quality of questions containing this tag -- boiled down to a few short sentences.

  2. Avoid generically defining the concept behind a tag, unless it is highly specialized. The "email" tag, for example, does not need to explain what email is. I think we can safely assume most internet users know what email is; there's no value in a boilerplate explanation of email to anyone.

With C# being a very popular programming language, its short description is definitely common knowledge among Stack Overflow's audience.

  1. Concentrate on what a tag means to your community. For "email" on Server Fault, mention the server aspects of email including POP3, SMTP, IMAP, and server software. For "email" on Super User, mention desktop email clients and explicitly exclude webmail, as that would be more appropriate for webapps.stackexchange.com.

So, what does C# mean to the community? Any word about on- and off-topic questions about C#?

  1. Provide basic guidance on when to use the tag. In other words, what kinds of questions should have this tag? Tags only exist as ways of organizing questions, so if we don't provide proper guidance on which questions need this tag, they won't get tagged at all, rendering the tag excerpt moot. Think of it as a sales pitch: in a room full of tags screaming "pick me!", what would convince a question asker to select your tag?

What tags should I use if I'm asking about C# debugging, or C# bytecode, or some library in C#? The excerpt doesn't say. Okay, I'll go read the whole tag wiki. What, not a single word about it?

  1. Some tags are common knowledge. Most tags require a bit of explanation in the excerpt, even if it's only 3 or 4 words. But if the tag is common knowledge -- that is, if you walked up to any random person on the street and said the tag word to them, and they would know what you were talking about -- then don't bother explaining the tag at all. Stick to usage of the tag within your community in the excerpt.

Replying to the comments — Is this question offensive?

About the "you're passive-agressive" implication, which appeared in some of the now-deleted comments:

I fail to see any offense in this post. What I see is confusion and disappointment, with a little bit of indignation. There certainly is an excuse for it. Dozens of reviewers approved a description which is 1) plagiarism and 2) just a bad wiki excerpt. I'm disappointed too.

Yes, the OP points at a mistake that the community has made in lots of edits and reviews. It's never pleasant when somebody points at your mistake. But it's not an offense, and even not blaming. It's a call to responsibility.

Please stop saying "how could we know, don't blame us". Nobody is blaming anybody. But since you know now, please make an effort to improve the situation.

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    I wonder if anybody ever would read the whole answer. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 3:12
  • Again, relevant meta.stackexchange.com/questions/238339/…
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 3:37
  • @Braiam: exactly. Sad to see that your proposal stays unanswered for a whole year. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 3:52
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    @NickVolynkin I didn't make it, I lost track of what you were really trying to explain half-way through it. To be more specific, I lose the link between the question asked and your answer, it seems to go off on its own adventure. Especially the focus on wikis throws me off.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 9:26
  • @Gimby: Maybe I should revise my answer or write a new post. The idea is that there are two connected problems. Copying tag wikis text from Wikipedia is 1) a plagiarism and 2) a way to create a self-obvious and useless tag wiki (excerpt). Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 9:29
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    "Questions should include code examples, sufficient to reproduce the problem. Add extra tags, relevant to the used technology or library." wait, should that really go into a tag wiki? For which questions isn't this the case?
    – Bergi
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 10:52
  • @Bergi: Seems to me that I've replied to your comment half an hour ago, but I cannot see my comment. Did you receive a notification? Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 11:45
  • @NickVolynkin: no, and neither can I see it. Maybe an error during submission?
    – Bergi
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 11:53
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    @NickVolynkin I think you should add a TLDR to your answer :P.
    – John Odom
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 20:16
  • I read through the post and have this to say: following your guidelines, the core ideas seem to be simple, useful, and relevant. Try that for a TL;DR Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 20:25
  • upvote for What should be done to improve wikis's 3 points. Though I doubt that just mentioning the source is enough (no doubt that it is necessary). I haven't read the whole answer.
    – jfs
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 21:09
  • @J.F.Sebastian: can't blame you for not reading all the text. :) Please tell, what else should be done? Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 21:11
  • @JohnOdom: working on it ) Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 21:12
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    @NickVolynkin: focus on the question in the title i.e., plagiarism in the C# tag excerpt: what to do now, how to prevent it in the future. The other parts (such as how to improve the excerpts in general) perhaps should be in a separate post.
    – jfs
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 21:21
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    I can't suggest an edit here. "This can include attribution to the autor and other requirements." -> should be 'author' not 'autor'. And yes, I read the entire answer :)
    – A. Wilcox
    Commented Aug 15, 2015 at 9:32
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"Are thousands of programmers on SO incapable of describing one of the most popular tags?" - Discord

It was wrong for the previous editors to plagiarize Wikipedia without attribution, without a doubt. However, that's separate from the idea suggested by your comment, that suggest somehow among the thousands of programmers we have an obligation to update tag wikis. Everyone contributes how they see fit (within the guidelines). If YOU think you are one of those programmers and think you are capable of describing the tag, then go for it!

Unless you can show that this is a very prevalent and reoccurring problem in tag wikis, that is so numerous that it presents an unmanageable workload, then I'm not sure that any additional process or rules are really worthy of the effort. It's essentially an ROI analysis problem.

You identified an isolated problem, and it seems you have the opportunity to correct this isolated problem just as you suggested, by writing a description that does not plagiarize Wikipedia. Your own advice is good advice, so I'm not sure what more there is than to suggest that you follow your own advice.

If you see that these particular editors are doing this kind of plagiarizing frequently (some editors might not realize the first version was plagiarized, so I'd focus on the original author), and there is a definite pattern to this behavior, then alert a moderator. I think that kind of problem has been covered pretty thoroughly in other meta posts. 1) See a violation? 2) Is the user doing this repeatedly? 3) Tell a moderator about it. Otherwise you can fix the C# tag wiki and move on.

I know our instinct as programmers is to devise a preventative measure or sometimes out of frustration we want to see people punished. But sometimes the ROI is not there. It's an isolated incident that can be dealt with relatively easily and doesn't need an in-depth analysis.

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    "Unless you can show that this is a very prevalent and reoccurring problem in tag wikis" meta.stackexchange.com/q/102314/213575 circa 2011, so yes, it was a problem then, is a problem now.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 1:16
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    @Braiam: Yeah, my thought was "anyone who thinks this is an isolated issue has been missing all the posts that cover the scope of it", but I haven't had time yet to really do the full sweep. Maybe a good check through revision history of the top 40 tags to see how much time they've spent in a plagiarized/uselessly copy-pasted state. Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 1:38
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    I have good reason to believe that this is not an isolated problem, since I know that I have been guilty of letting this sort of thing happen a number of times; even though I'm an experienced Stack Overflow user recently, I didn't know these sorts of edits were problematic until recently, so I would expect that the average reviewer is not going to be effective against spotting plagiarized summaries. Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 1:57
  • @NathanTuggy using [tag-wiki] wikipedia or copy as search terms may help you, remember there's also Meta Stack Exchange
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 2:01
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    @PeterOlson: For that matter, the converse is also true: I've had at least one suggested edit unanimously rejected for attempting to get rid of plagiarized, uselessly-general material, despite a descriptive edit summary. Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 2:07
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    AaronLS, you appear to have 5k rep, so haven't you reviewed any amount of tag wiki edits to determine that almost all of them are crap?
    – bjb568
    Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 2:27

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