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In the last few weeks on Meta, I've seen a handful of questionable audit cases involving not particularly great questions that had received a ton of upvotes. In several of these cases, the voting could be traced back to a bounty being placed on those questions. Even a 50 point bounty was enough to drive 8+ upvotes to borderline questions.

It appears that the reason behind this is their prominent placement within the Featured Questions tab on the front page. In fact, if you look down the list of featured questions you find a large number of upvotes on each. Many of these questions would not otherwise receive votes like this. A random sampling of a few of these seems to indicate that almost all votes came after the bounty was placed on a question.

In many cases, the reputation gained from votes outweighs the 50 point bounty, so this seems like people are able to get a lot of attention for their questions for free.

Beyond the troubling audit cases this is creating, is this a larger problem? Should the design around how these are presented be changed?

Should we just exclude previously bountied questions from being audit cases?

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  • 4
    Audits shouldn't be automatically selected at all imo, but excluding bountied questions would be a good start.
    – user247702
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:06
  • Well, at least make sure the audit, if it becomes an audit, does not assume that closing would have been wrong. The reason being that they couldn't be closed except by mod-fiat while anyone knew about them and cared. Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:07
  • 7
    @Stijn - Regarding hand-picked audits, I can refer you to my answer here: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/284435/19679 . That wouldn't scale to a site this size, and would cause other debates. I believe it would be more effective to have a system for disputing the few questionable audits.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:12
  • It's somewhat of an odd situation. The bounty brings in more views on the question, people answer and want upvotes, and upvoting the question results in the question getting more views, possibly resulting in the answers getting more upvotes, and possibly more answers. Feedback loop. It's a side effect of a system where people earn points from upvotes, you'll do whatever increases the chances of getting upvotes. Not yet sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:20
  • You forgot to put a bounty on this question!
    – Stryner
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:34
  • 2
    @Stryner You can't place bounties on Meta.
    – user3453226
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 16:38
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    FYI, bountied questions are already excluded from use as audits in the Close, Reopen and Triage queues. Should probably just do that everywhere.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 17:31
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    There is a secondary problem here. These questions get picked for audits because they attracted so many flags. From users that helplessly looked at the crap question, little else they can do because it is protected from close-votes. Why did the moderators ignore those flags? Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 17:45
  • 1
    @Shog9 If you decide to do that, could you fix this while you're in there? :/
    – CRABOLO
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 17:53
  • 5
    @HansPassant - Flags have nothing to do with questions like this being picked as positive audit cases. The votes are all that trigger the usage of them as audits. Neither of the questions I linked above had any flags on them from any users at any time, so there was no way a moderator would even be aware of them. Moderators do clear bounties on terrible questions that are brought to our attention.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 18:05
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    And there's this nonsense, where an untouched, year-old question got a +50 point bounty, jumped up to +10, got answered, and an answerer got upset when it in turn got closed and deleted. Part of the argument against deletion was "But it has lots of votes!" It's not just audits that are being impacted, but bounty hunters chasing bad bounties, and using the ensuing upvotes to justify the question's existence. Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 18:11
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    @Shog9 - Unfortunately, the voting that occurs on a bountied question sticks with it even after the bounty has expired. Removing currently bountied questions from being audits doesn't help with the cases like the two I link above. Both of those had bounties on them at one point, but the bounties have since expired. The extreme votes they received remain. I'm thinking that removing audit eligibility from questions that had received a bounty at any point in their lifetime might be a safer audit restriction.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 18:11
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    Questions that have current or past bounties are excluded, @Brad. Just not from all queues.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2015 at 18:34
  • 1
    @Shog9 I hate to rain on your parade, but I got a bountied question in a Close Vote audit: i.sstatic.net/imv26.png
    – Laurel
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 14:59
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    Dammit. I'll look into this, @Laurel. Thanks - ah, looks like this bug never got fixed; I'll ping someone.
    – Shog9 Mod
    Commented May 23, 2016 at 21:49

4 Answers 4

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Should the design around how these are presented be changed?

I'd have go with no here. Since the whole point of a bountied question is to increase its visibility, wouldn't changing the way they're featured go against that?

Should we just exclude previously bountied questions from being audit cases?

It's difficult to decide. Theoretically bountied questions would receive more views, both from people who would vote based on quality and those who instead vote because it's featured, or whatever other reason.

Unfortunately I think there are more people who don't vote based on quality, and instead vote for other reasons such as "This is an interesting question". That's a valid reason to upvote a question, but it shouldn't be done instead of downvoting due to being low quality.

Until we're able to somehow get people to vote on quality above other reasons, omitting bountied questions from audit cases might be a good alternative.

Or, only omit bountied questions if the bounty was set by the OP.


And by bountied I mean bountied at any time during the lifetime of the question.

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You are touching three issues, so lets try to segregate them:

  1. Audits are selected naively: This has been the griping of many reviewers since the start of the times. A post with a couple of upvotes (those are the the ones that cause most pain), which is actually out of the scope and/or makes eyes bleed and rot, gets selected as a "known good" question and presented to a knowledgeable user, which fails the audit test. I have a couple of ideas to fix this, which involves discriminating the users who gave their votes for the post to be selected as audit.
  2. Users misunderstanding what a bounty implies: this is problematic. It seems like there wasn't proper guidance at the beginning, which created some kind of misunderstanding. I'm not sure if going the click-wall route can help with this. Certainly, it doesn't help the people asking questions.
  3. Users which upvotes post of questionable quality: and consistently doing so, is even more preoccupying. Yet it seems that anonymous users seems to get it Right™, so I'm not sure how to deal with it.

Basically, yes, you should be worried that users are incapable of identifying good content accurately and that it skews the other users and the site normal functionality.

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  • 1
    "anonymous users seems to get it Right": Actually, that's a non-obvious non-sequitur. Yes, anonymous users, averaged over all questions, seem to vote extraordinarily similar to high-rep users. But if you try correlating on a per-question-basis, which is the important part, who knows? See the comments there. Commented Aug 1, 2015 at 16:56
  • @Deduplicator I was suspecting that Shog didn't provided the data narrowed down to closed questions. Maybe that's an indication that we need to close/delete more questions. Maybe something else. But they seems as group on all non-deleted questions behave the same as high reputation users on all closed questions, which is surprising.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 1, 2015 at 17:01
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You say that you noticed a lot of this in the last few weeks. So I'd assume you're saying it's worse than it was before. I personally do remember myself having issues with these highly scored bounty audit questions in the past, but have since learned how to spot them pretty well to avoid failing an audit. I've also noticed others complaining about them on meta before recently. Definitely not a new thing.

So I think if you're saying that it's worse than before, then we'd need to gather some data to see if that's the case. Or maybe we don't need to since it's trivial since it's always been a problem just never fixed.

The way you wrote your OP makes it sound like there should be a serial voting type of script that could detect if some users are just going through the featured tab questions and upvoting them all for no apparent reason other than that they're featured. Maybe an employee could work some magic to see if this conspiracy theory scenario could possibly be worsening the issue. But even if some users are doing this for whatever their reasons, there isn't no way to really punish them since they can use their votes how they want I guess.

Or maybe if this is a lot worse than before, maybe there is sock puppet serial voting rings going on that involves bounties in their greedy schemes. Run serial voting / collusion scripts on the weird cases questions/answers you come across.

I don't see how a new design of how they are featured would decrease these unwanted seemingly incorrect upvotes. Unless, you remove the featured tab all together, get rid of the ability to search for them with like hasnotice, or through SEDE. So that the only way you know if it has a bounty currently is if you view the question itself. Yea, that would work, but I'd definitely be less confident in placing a bounty if that were the case, since it would likely get very low views / less potential good answerers seeing the question. Because there would be no way to inform the users that want to answer bounty questions to get more bang for their time without them scanning all questions in their tags for bounties, which would be ridiculous and hard on the server.

You could remove the previously bountied questions from the audits, but I don't know the algorithm that's used, so I just hope there is enough questions with like +5 or whatever score and other necessary criteria to be picked for these audit cases in place of the bountied ones. Because if this would somehow make it for reviewers to be given less audits, then I'd say no. But maybe just don't use previously bountied questions from users that are less than 2 months old or have a score of less than 250 or something. That would likely produce a similar result as removing the bountied question audits all together.

-6

Here is a list of some posts/threads that I have protested, either in comments, replies, or by flagging. Some do not exactly pertain to the topic here, not exactly. But, since a moderator linked this present thread in a flag-note and I feel they're related to this topic, I've included them in the list anyway. It's far from exhaustive.

Maybe there would have been some better examples than some of these. But I lost track of them after deleting most of the content in my profile (in response to a moderator censoring my comments in that last item).

My point is, why would a member make the effort to diligently research and compose posts here, (which might represent hours, even days), when this kind of crap is going on?

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  • I will watch with great interest as this post accumulates -1 votedowns from the defensive "contributors" here who are substantially the source of the problem I'm illustrating. Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 19:51
  • 3
    For posterity, these were the comments that were "censored": i.sstatic.net/Dq0Wu.png
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 19:57
  • You conveniently omitted these: timeshifter's censored + locked msdn thread and MS-Connect report on timeshifter's behalf. Why don't you transcribe the entire sequence here for all to evaluate? That's not the topic, but fine, let's see. Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:08
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    Those were the only comments present on that answer. There were no others. I have no idea what you're talking about with the rest. Your comments were removed because they were calling people "MS-sponsored trolls" and worse. There are more constructive ways to express your disagreement with technical matters, and had you done so your comments would not have been removed.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:15
  • Just transcribe the links then. That is sufficient if you bother to click them and see. Then click the links in the ul list above. Several are exacly on-topic here. A few others show overt and petty rep-system abuse from some highly respected members here. This is a significant problem here Brad. Your comments are defensive. Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:19
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    Brad's explaining to you why your behavior with those comments was out of line. Personally, I don't see what your point is with this answer. "My point is, why would a member make the effort to diligently research and compose posts here, (which might represent hours, even days), when this kind of crap is going on?" This makes zero sense right now. All you said in your answer was a mod pointed you here, there's a list of questions, you've lost track of more. This is why I find your answer lacking: I do not see what it has to do with the question at hand. It reads as a rant, not an answer.
    – Kendra
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:23
  • I deleted a great demo first due to all the fake voteups. It's among the ul list. See subsequent flags there. Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:26
  • 1
    Highly related to your deleted comments: The "Be Nice" Policy. "See subsequent flags there" Only moderators can see flags that have been cast. Your answer has zero information for anyone else regarding what it has to do with the question asked. That would likely be why it's getting downvoted. As I said before, I don't see what it has to do with the question at hand. Consider editing it to clarify your point here. (Side note: It's nice that mods here will actually explain why content was deleted. Some sites don't do that.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:30
  • Review. I fixed the link Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 20:31
  • 1
    I have no idea why this answer is relevant for the topic in discussion: bounties inflating votes.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 21:49
  • then you didn't click the links. nor read far enough to see an actual example of how it causes some members to remove their work from this site. maybe you also flagged this post "delete" to suppress it. that would be unsurprising. Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 22:03
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    Brad's question is asking "Is rampant upvoting because of bounties a problem?" and your answer is, it seems like, "Here is a list of posts I hate." That ... truly ... does not answer the question. If you couched it as "Yes, it is a problem! Here are some examples" with more appropriate language, you'd probably get a better response. But some of those posts do not have high scores nor have bounties on them, so their relevance is suspect.
    – Ajean
    Commented Aug 11, 2015 at 0:24
  • Brad's delete-note (in his screenshot above) and later link in flag-note served as solicitation to discuss it here. Although I didn't mention names. He volunteered his connection. Hope that's relevant. Commented Aug 11, 2015 at 1:44

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