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I haven't used Stack Overflow for a year or two.

When I came back a while ago, I noticed an interesting pattern:

  1. Questions aren't getting upvoted.
  2. Response times are long.
  3. Number of answers is low.
  4. Have the impression that whoever is downvoting/closing questions is trigger-happy.

So I went ahead and skimmed through several pages of C++ questions, and it looks like this is actually happened - pages are full of zeroes.

The way site worked before (2..3 years ago) was that you could get bunch of upvotes/downvotes within first hour after posting, and a decent response in about 10 minutes or less, unless the question was completely arcane and required some serious voodoo to figure it out. I don't see this happening now.

So, the question is: has something (I'm not aware of) serious happened to the site while I was away? Experience is vastly different now, and I am not sure if it is "better".

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    2-3 years ago we didn't get as many questions. There is also a drop in the quality of questions on SO. There are several initiatives to try to improve things.
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 18:44
  • 104
    Everything was better in the old days. Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 18:50
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    To put numbers to bluefeet's statement: adjusting for automatic system cleanup, there are roughly 80% more questions coming in per day now than in 2012. However, the number of votes cast on questions has grown by ~70% over that period. The ratio of question upvotes to downvotes appears to be largely unchanged over that duration.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 19:04
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    Do note that meta.SO is now a true persite meta, and there are no rep changes from posts on meta (anymore). Getting up voted or down voted on meta is largely academic now.
    – user289086
    Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 19:22
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    @BradLarson that is very interesting that the ratio of question upvotes:downvotes hasn't changed. I would've heavily (and blindly) assumed that downvotes would have grown over time. Thanks for sharing. Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 19:49
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    those who would vote up and answer may be slightly overwhelmed by wall of cr@p at home / tag pages
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 19:56
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    Well a valid point is that older questions that ask simpler things have answers already, and those are the majority of questions that keep getting upvotes as they're the first hit on Google, or the first solution that worked for people searching. I feel as a new user it's not common to ask questions that I don't already have an answer for on some old SO question, likewise answering as the non poor quality questions are out of my knowledge to answer. Commented Mar 31, 2015 at 20:26
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    Also, because many "cr@p" questions are (vaguely) duplicates of old questions, but duplicates are very hard to find even when you know what you are looking for, a lot of downvotes seem to be cast as a rough approximation of "I know this has been asked and answered before".
    – tripleee
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 8:03
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    @J.F.Sebastian: (continued) Following scenario is possible: newbie questions get lots of attention, advanced ones get less. Because there is no metric measuring "advancedness" of a question, site may be less useful for advanced users even if average response is the same and statistics say "all is good". If that is actually happening, and attention is shifting towards newbie questions, then it may be a bad thing, because internet is already full of newbie material already.
    – SigTerm
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 14:44
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    Without data you are just generating noise.
    – jfs
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:01
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    As pointed out by @matrixanomaly, the good/common questions have already been asked for mature languages such as C++. It would be interesting to compare statistics between languages (e.g. a newer language such as Apple's Swift vs an older language such as C++).
    – Alexander
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:41
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    I've also just come back after a couple of years and was thinking some of the things here. The most disappointing thing for me is that perfectly good questions meant with very good intentions are quickly being marked as duplicates. Specialist things are being closed for being too narrow, and broad things closed for too broad. While I understand why that's happening, it doesn't encourage me to be active.
    – teppic
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 1:50
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    J.F. Sebastian: "Without data you are just generating noise." Your "data" does not magically change my personal experience with the site . Regardless of statistics, people that talk about slow responses and voice similar complaints probably do that because they actually experienced that. Can't vouch for everybody, of course. However, feel free to provide metric for question complexity and check response time/complexity now and 3 years ago.
    – SigTerm
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 7:05
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    There are now millions of novices trying really hard to write "mobile" apps and games who need to do a CS course.
    – Robinson
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 13:08
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    I love data, but when you're dealing with human issues like customer service or public relations, people's perception can be as important, or more important, than statistics. Sometimes it highlights issues that just can't easily be reported upon. If the repeat concerns which are being raised about the site aren't considered an issue that needs to be dealt with then fair enough, no action needed. But if they are, then it makes sense to find a way to change that perception, rather than simply tell the people who hold it that they're wrong - they can't be, they're passing on their experiences. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 15:55

8 Answers 8

74
  1. Questions aren't getting upvoted.

Stack Overflow has a huge number of incoming questions nowadays. Without being tagged for enough followers, it's likely they are even not seen at the (tag filtered) frontpage(s).

  1. Responses times are slow.

That's not true. For example, I'm usually responding with some action (or not) within seconds, as soon I've been noticed about a question coming along my most favorite language tag (and I'm pretty sure others do the same, since I see them appearing in comments, close judgments or answers frequently).

  1. Number of answers is low.

The number of off-topic questions is high in turn.
I personally think, it's because of popularity and prominence of Stack Overflow at the available search engines.
Also there are old (but still useful), and well established Q&A patterns, e.g. seen from a Google search result, that new users didn't read the potentially available answers to the end (or were just too lazy to do so), and decide to ask in the same broad manner for their own problem.

A classical sample is this one for instance: What is an undefined reference/unresolved external symbol error and how do I fix it?

  1. Have impression that whoever is downvoting/closing quesiton is trigger-happy.

Yes, I am "trigger-happy" most of the day, judging all that overwhelming number of crap questions coming in (even filtered by tag).
It exonerates me from giving an answer (or even a comment), for what I'm considering being "questions" valuable to hurt the quality of the Stack Overflow site (at least as coming along with my favorite tag).

"So, the question is: has something (I'm not aware of) serious happened to the site while I was away?"

Yes, the popularity of the Stack Overflow site has hit some point; we need to counter incoming questions and newly created accounts (see my point at 1.).

"Experience is vastly different now, not sure if it is better."

Well, it depends on how you achieve it. From the point we're more able to just mark a fair amount of the incoming questions as duplicates, that already have concise answers, the more questions are prone being bailed out.

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    I can say that the answer rate is getting lower and lower (or my skills at asking questions are getting dangerously close to null). Since February, I've asked 2 questions. No upvotes, no downvotes, barely any visit (one of them got only 6 views, probably 3/4 were mine), no comments on the last 2... I've been answering questions when I see them and I comment or answer. But I think that SigTerm is right. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 9:00
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    @IsmaelMiguel Do your own views of your own question increase the views count? Bit of a pointless metric if it does.
    – user146043
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 9:24
  • @Poldie It does, sadly. I've noticed that each question I ask, has 1 view. When I refresh, it gets automatically another view. When you visit it on another computer (at home), you get more views. I may be wrong, but this is what I see. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:26
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    @IsmaelMiguel Do I really need to point out that an anecdotal story about 2 (two!!) questions is not in any way evidence that the answer rate is decreasing? We need some hard data here or this entire discussion is pointless. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:27
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    @IsmaelMiguel I'm looking at one of your two recent questions. Looks to me like you simply didn't tag correctly. You tagged it jQuery, but not javascript (javascript being far more popular than jQuery). It also seems to be asking about a bizarre problem with jquery ui using an equally as bizarre example; Sorting td's in a row of a table, while only allowing drag to happen vertically? What?! i'm surprised it wasn't downvoted.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:42
  • @KevinB Pointing out the 'flaws', I'm surprised too. But the bug is that the damn <td> goes EVERYWHERE! But jQuery must be related to javascript. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:00
  • @IsmaelMiguel I agree, the javascript tag in this case probably won't help describe the question any better than jQuery, and it's primarily about a jQuery method, so probably not worth putting javascript on it now that I look at it again. That will however limit it's exposure to people answering questions to only users who are following the jQuery tag. since the language is javascript, you would have been able to get away with using the javascript tag too.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:03
  • @KevinB If you think it will help, you can add the tag. I would appreciate it. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:29
  • @IsmaelMiguel Regarding your low-traffic questions: tagging these questions with javascript would surely attract a lot more attention. I guess (not being a Javascript person myself) that not all Javascript / jQuery gurus follow the jQuery tag. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 13:56
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This plot I just made for an unrelated thread on meta.physics.SE* might be relevant:

First answer score vs. question age for Physics.SE, Math.SE, SO and RPG.SE

What I'm plotting here is the average score of the first answer to each question, vs. the age of the question when it was first answered, grouped in logarithmically spaced bins. The area of the dots is proportional to the number of answers in each bin; the counts for SO are scaled down by a factor of 10 compared to the other sites. Closed questions, self-answers and answers seemingly posted before the question (which can happen if questions are merged) are excluded.

What you can see from this plot are a few general trends:

  • SO is huge. Like, really huge. (Note the 10x downscaling compared to the other sites.)

  • The bigger the site, the less upvotes you tend to get per answer. Even ignoring RPG.SE (which I deliberately picked for contrast, because I knew it was a smallish site with a "soft" topic, a core of very skilled answerers, and a serious focus on quality over quantity), that seems to be the general trend here.

  • The bigger the site, the more important it is to be fast. On SO, the average score for a first answer posted one minute after the question is just over 6, while the same average for a first answer posted four minutes later is a bit under 2.4 votes.

(Running the query for other sites and summarizing the results is left as an exercise. I did try it for several other sites, and noticed nothing too far from the general trends noted above, even if there does exist a lot of variation in voting culture between SE sites.)

Basically, if you want to get a lot of upvotes on SO, the first five minutes of the question's life seem to be the critical window — that's when most of the active regulars will see it. If you miss that window, you might as well just take your time writing your answer.

Anyway, I think the take-home message here is simply that what's changed is that SO has grown bigger, and, somewhat inevitably, the scaling has not been uniform. There are now so many new questions being posted on SO that nobody can possibly read all of them.

Alas, one side effect of this is that, unless your question just happens to fall under a specialized tag that has an active subcommunity, you basically get five minutes of fame, and (unless it gets on the Hot Network Questions list, or otherwise "goes viral") that's it — after that, you're lucky if anybody stumbles across it at all. If they do, and answer it, the question will get bumped and maybe attracts a few more views and votes from people browsing the front page, but, with SO's question volume, it's not going to stay there very long even then.

Of course, one should not take too one-sided a view here — there are plenty of other factors that matter too (as examining the enormous variance in the scores will reveal), not the least being simply that well written and interesting questions and answers will always be more likely to get upvotes. But clearly, on a site as big as SO, speed does matter.

*) As opposed to metaphysics.SE.

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    Very nice analysis. Would be great if someone could check question complexity against number of upvotes. Perhaps using length of the text of the question (without code) could be used to roughly estimate difficulty/quality.
    – SigTerm
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 7:11
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    That is great indeed, and it confirms the intuition about the fastest gun in the west problem.
    – martin
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 13:39
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    @SigTerm you might be interested in this MSE discussion: Is there a demonstrable correlation between question length and question quality?
    – gnat
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 16:34
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When I came back a while ago, I noticed an interesting pattern:

Questions aren't getting upvoted.

Good new questions are. Unfortunately those are few and far between. There is a sense that most of the good questions have already been asked by now, and most of what we get now is broad localised debug-my-code nonsense. Or duplicates.

Response times are long.

No, they're not.

Number of answers is low.

Again, no. Even the new-fangled rubbish questions attract replovers and plenty of answers.

Have the impression that whoever is downvoting/closing questions is trigger-happy.

Instead, have the impression that whoever is downvoting/closing questions is doing a good job, and whoever is posting the questions is post-bad-questions-happy.

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    I'd say the number of answers is far lower on hard questions than on the tons of basic questions and debug-my-code crap. It might be that this is also due to the crap, which reduces the visibility of the better questions due to sheer volume. But I'd guess that harder questions always got less answers than trivial stuff.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 11:10
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    I agree with the OP. This post in particular shows the general mentality in which direction the site has moved to in recent years. Just stating some opinion without any kind of explanation (No, they're not.), passive aggressive or just plain aggressive tone and nothing to support their opinion or in case of newbie questions only bash the question and no help or guidance on what was wrong with the question or how (s)he should go about in finding the information. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 13:50
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    @user1054844: I love how you support the OP, who presented no evidence of any kind, but then proceed to accuse me of being "passive aggressive" and "plain aggressive" because I also provided no evidence. I never suggested "bashing" anything. You're heavily biased and you don't even know it. The funniest thing is, according to your profiles, you are hardly ever even here. You have minimal activity over the last year. So what makes you qualified to dispute my observations? Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 14:40
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    @user1054844 Lightning has been around a long time, so she's had some basis to make these statements. You're free to not agree with her, but you shouldn't take her opinion as aggressive or even passive aggressive without a good reason to do so. The reason this post was upvoted is that apparently a lot of people are of the same opinion or else believe it contributed a valid opinion to the discussion.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 22:18
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    This is a good case that works as an example. Now my previous comment has been misunderstood in its context. What I mean is that Lightning is providing counter one line arguments without stating anything to back up her opinion or observations. It is resembles the behavior of those people who are quick to flag and comment on newbie questions that they don´t belong here without giving a proper guidance what went wrong. Just a quick comment and done. I am not disputing your observations, just stating that it would make it far more nicer to read what lead you to that observation Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25
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    I did not want to start a flamewar. My point was just this site has grown out of the user friendly learning environment it was a few years back. Now a days I try to stay out of SO, because it resembles more of arguing teenager comment boards than actual professional place for people to grow their skills. I really hope that it would make its way back to what it was but if not I am ok using the separete sites that are dedicated to the program/language that I am in need of additional information Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 7:34
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    @user1054844 SO is not and has never been a learning environment. Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 10:17
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    Of course it is. There are a ton of questions on performance, how to:s, comparisons between different techniques, etc. So SO is actually a interactive learning environment. People come here to to find information and interact with each other (someone might argue even that they teach each other). In my view all forum like sites are more or less learning environments when compared to static Wiki:s, developer, or bug-list sites. Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 10:54
  • @user1054844: SO is not a forum-like site, either. Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 10:59
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    We are arguing over at meta. What would you call that then? Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 11:00
  • @user1054844: A complete waste of my time. Would you please stop? Commented Apr 7, 2015 at 12:12
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It's because a lot of middle-of-the-road guys like me have all but stopped using the service to ask or answer anything. We just read what's already here because doing either of the other two things is just asking for trouble. :)

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    Asking for trouble how? If you have a question or answer and you follow the rules, you're pretty unlikely to have any ill effects.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:11
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    Indeed ... there are many "middle-of-the-road" users on SO, like me, who don't necessarily earn rep super-fast or spend hours here.... but I've never been afraid to post something that I'd stand behind. And if it's good enough for me to stand behind, it's never been a problem for other users either in my experience. The only things I've posted that have been called out or downvoted actually deserved it.
    – Ajean
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:15
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    middle-of-the-road guys like me have all but stopped using the service the evidence is to the contrary: At this moment, of the 50 newest C# questions only 3 are from users with > 2000 rep Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:23
  • I'm with you @archer884. You are speaking into a vacuum buddy but we know the drill. Come on over to reddit dev subs. You can learn to loathe the python brigade with me.
    – Serialize
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:13
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    I'm with you too, buddy, though I do upvote anwers and questions when I find them helpful. Apparently if you've got 150K rep, you can offer your opinions as fact, but when you've got 500 rep, what you're really asking for is even less rep than you already have.
    – twip
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:20
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    @twip Do you have any evidence for those baseless assertions?
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 15:30
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    @mason In another answer to this question, opinion is flatly offered as fact and has since been acknowledged as such in comments by the author. Please feel free to read the supporting material before taking an accusatory tone. For what it's worth: this is the sort of behavior to which we are referring.
    – twip
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 21:25
  • @twip What are you tallking about? πάντα ῥεῖ's answer? Ilmari Karonen's? Lightning Racis in Obrit's? This is on Meta by the way, where opinion and experience does matter. If someone new comes along saying that the rules are bad, do you really think they have any appreciation for why we have those rules or what it's like without them? On the actual site, no, reputation of the person answering doesn't matter, you're judged purely on the weight of your answer. But clearly the people that have high reputation have it because they have learned to answer and ask high quality.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 21:47
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    @mason And here is where I disengage. You seem unwilling to do the work; I'm not willing to play your game. Experience and opinion and facts matter everywhere. But what ought to reign supreme here is the guiding principle that brought SO into life in the first place: being mistreated on the Internet when you're asking for help sucks. This community seems to be losing site of that.
    – twip
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 22:01
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    @twip If you're coming here with allegations, then the onus is on you to prove your point, not for others to go out and prove it for you. You didn't state in your comment what you were referring to, just a vague statement about having 150K rep and your opinion gets taken as fact. So if you provide supporting material at the time you make the allegation then at least you're basing it on something. But I don't know why you would think someone's opinion is being taken as fact. You know, people upvote on Meta because they agree with the opinion stated? Not just because they believe it's a fact?
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 22:04
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    @twip No one is mistreating anyone else. We're saying there's certain standards to posting, and that your posts aren't welcome if they aren't up to standards. It's not a personal thing, and it's even easy to meet the standards. SO isn't about getting treated rightly or wrongly - it's about providing a high quality resource of questions and answers for programmers - anything else is extraneous.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 22:06
3

To answer the question (What happened while you were away): SO continued to grow and attracted many more users many of which are not so proficient in programming yet.

As a side effect one probably gets:

  • many more questions
  • a lower ratio of answerers to askers which might result in somewhat slower response time and lower number of answers
  • a higher fraction of low quality or very specific questions (which one would also get naturally as a maturation effect of the site even if the proficiency of the users would stay constant)

Without more statistics I think that one cannot draw any more conclusions.

Also I do not see any artificial effects at work, it is just the natural maturation behavior of a useful, well designed, knowledge based, collaborative Q&A site.

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  • Btw. With more questions it might still be that there are groups of questions that get the same fast response time and number of answers as two years before, but they are less often occuring now. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 16:00
-12

I think a large part of that perception is a side effect of seeing how SO moderators go about their business. This meta thread is a perfect example: Count how many times you read the words "Crap question" above.

They are trigger happy, and will default to closing a question as duplicate as soon as they recognize some aspect of the question in their search, when in actuality they have no f#^%ing idea if the 'duplicate' is even remotely the answer to the submitter's question or not, just that it has some of the same words or concepts and has an accepted answer.

I'm not saying there are no badly researched questions, or simply clueless submitters, I'm sure there are a great many, but the insulting attitude of the mods when they themselves are clearly not subject matter experts makes participating in (or answering) questions on this site very, very low on my priority list.

It looks an awful lot like a bureaucracy of the drunk-with-power from the outside. Of course I have never liked the SO model of 'quality assurance' anyway. When your moderation system is a handful 'of the willing' then its almost pre-wired for this insular US-vs-the-idiot-users mentality.

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    "is a side effect of seeing how SO moderators go about their business" You probably unconsciously mix up higher rep (trusted) SO users, and SO moderators, which gives you a completely different shark tank. Up-/down/-close/-delete voting a question or answer, is primarily left to the community, rather involving the elected site moderators. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:33
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    We're all moderating the site by giving our signals along to the rep level we have gained and being considered a trusted user for doing one or the other action here . Designated moderators are elected by the community, and have extra privileges beyond. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:41
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    You sound very angry. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:47
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    That's fine, except being trusted and having a good rep on SO does not make you qualified to instantly recognize that an advanced submitter (regardless of rep) has not already disregarded the other slightly similar questions asked/answered on the site but which in reality have nothing to do with said post. Yet these are routinely flagged anyway, just because.
    – Serialize
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:51
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    @Plutonix Yeah, somewhat. Its frustration mostly. This is not unique to SO. As a slashdotter and redditor, I think its universal that once the community decides on the "One Right Way", dissent is squashed, and there will be no further discussion.
    – Serialize
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:53
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    "...dissent is squashed, and there will be no further discussion." But that is what Meta is for. But, in order to change things, you really have to sell your point. Prove to us that the problem you're seeing and we're not is indeed a problem. Provide a variety of examples if you think something isn't working right. Yes, we ask for data to back these kinds of complaints up, but that's because we don't see this happening as often as people are claiming. If they're just not fully understanding the site, then they'll feel like whatever is going on is far more common. (cont.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:57
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    (cont.) In reality, they just need a little help understanding how things work. In some cases, mistakes have been made that confused the user that's complaining. We're all human, that happens. But we still need to see the problem to know it's there. That's why things are so hard to change. No one's proving to us this is a problem, they're just complaining about it. Gather data, prove it, and it'll all be good.
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:58
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    it is incumbent on the poster to explain that they are aware of the dupe and how exactly their question is unique. Barring that, it will be subject to being closed. once the community decides on the "One Right Way" But isnt that the entire point of a community - to establish norms? Just because you dont agree with the close-dupe policy doesnt give you the right to ignore it, certainly not without consequences. There are 3.5 MILLION users here, we cant have 3.5 MILLION policies Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:59
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    Yeah, I see what you are saying @Kendra, except the burden to "prove to you" is not worth it. Instead I'll -continue- to pop in occasionally to look for something, maybe look around for a few minutes (just like today) and then avoid SO for months on end and use the Reddit dev subs or answer questions on Experts Exchange. The culture here is crappy, is probably my overall point. So I vote with my feet.
    – Serialize
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:04
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    errr, one of the shared common attitudes, interests, and goals here is to close dupes quickly in order not to have 37,000 questions repeating the same fundamental question with answers of varying quality and scope. To that end, the norm is for the community members vote to close such questions. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:18
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    Case in point Closed by certified experts (more than one!) in the C# tag. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:23
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    errrr, I guess your idea of both shared and attitude is different than mine. Oh irony. The bottom line is that you like the current system. Many of us think it sucks. You win, we lose. Not a big deal, its an internet forum. Such is life in soviet russia. @Plutonix
    – Serialize
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:08
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    Wrong on all counts. It is the stated, published and encouraged SO policy to close dupes quickly; I think there are many flaws in the status quo, chief among the the ability for no-account, skels to pump raw sewage into the system in the form of dupe questions; see Are high-rep users answering fewer questions for info on the harm dupes do (esp Aaron Bertrand's response); and finally it is not a forum. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 22:51
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    @kendra no, meta SHOULD be where these discussions should be had, but as soon as anybody outside of the inner circle tries to suggest something, he's immediately ostracized and cast away. Can't even read dissent, negative flagged questions make the comments close to gray on white. This meta is exemplary: seen from half meter distance from my laptop, it's mostly an huge white area. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 7:42
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    @DarioFumagalli No one cares who you are, what your rep is, or about gathering "supporters". You don't need to know anyone: you just need to have a valid point and strong proof.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 5, 2015 at 2:18
-15

More than an aswer, this is an addition to the topic as I see it.

I understand SO became so large and keeping quality up is a real challenge. I am but a SO "end user" so I can't suggest great solutions but just my feeling as long time user: SO became more hostile to questions or at least it looks so.
Yes, there may be a lot of good, impeccable reasons but the "first impression" counts a lot and nowadays it's neither as friendly nor bringing to solutions as it used to be just 2 years ago. Sorry if this comes as criticism, I really love SO and would like to see it grow... But grow while staying faithful to its legacy of "useful, practical, quick, solutions in a friendly community".

Another remark: I see some complain people keep repeating old questions. It's not entirely true. There's a double adverse selection mechanism at play:

1) Those who like me ask "high level" questions get downvoted because they may lead to whatever prejudices and judgement (basically a "forum moderation approach", where you look at possible disruptive responses before even looking at the question content per se).

2) Those proposing diverse questions are quickly discouraged, downvoted and driven away. So of course, what's left after the "pruning" are the same, repeated, established questions.

It's like the accepted way of asking questions is shaping questions themselves, making them "coherent, in topic, quality etc. etc." but at the same time, flattening all of them to basic topics. Of course basic topics sooner or later tend to see repeating questions. There should be a SO accepted way to ask for architectural, complex solutions without making moderators start removing / downvoting and so on. Because technology builds layer upon previous layer, we can't just assist people stuck at the starting layer and discourage those who are at upper layers.

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  • Also, why just because I posted a reply, it got a -1? This is another issue with the "new SO": people getting downvoted just because. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 9:58
  • 10
    "I see some complain people keep repeating old questions" - where? We mostly complain about crap questions; people dumping their homework, expecting SO to be a debugging service, not having the slightest idea what they're doing, not searching at all, not even giving enough information to reproduce their issue, etc, etc. This has nothing to do with "high level" or "diverse" questions at all. And re "a SO way to ask for architectural solutions", there are other SE sites like programmers.SE where larger scale architectural questions are on-topic AFAIK.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:00
  • 7
    And I did downvote you, because your answer is useless. You're making incorrect assumptions, complain about SO not being "friendly" (which is a useless metric, and mostly a complaint of people who get downvoted for posting crap), don't seem to know the SE ecosystem, don't seem to be aware of the quality discussions that have taken place on meta.SO and meta.SE in the last months, etc, etc, etc. All in all, this answer is not useful which is the exact tooltip of the downvote arrow.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:04
  • 5
    The very fact you believe "third view" users feedback to be useless is part of the problem. No, I am not going to spend my days reading months of SE meta, I am but an user who spent 15 minutes of his life trying to contribute to a discussion born out of feelings and that won't do the same mistake again. Also, you downvoted FIVE seconds after I posted the reply, you could not even have read what it was about. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:27
  • 7
    That's exactly why your answer is useless - it's a personal feedback post. It makes a lot of assumptions and assertions without backing up anything with facts, and talks about your personal feelings (sorry to break it to you, but nobody cares about those - SE aims to be a repository of useful content, making you feel good or bad has nothing to do with that goal). And your conclusion that there is no way to ask about complex architecture on SE is plain wrong.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:37
  • 6
    As for how fast I downvoted, I downvoted as soon as I arrived at "SO became more hostile to questions" (which is so wrong I don't even know where to start - I'd say SO became far less hostile to crap questions), which was enough to get a good impression of where the answer was going. Of course I read the whole thing and would have undone my DV if the rest of the answer would have redeemed it, but it didn't.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:41
  • 3
    Personal feedback is the building block to create millions of aggregate feedback, that is the foundation of how you measure statistical metrics. The very question in this topic is subjective, I don't see -99999999 next to it. Also, "sorry to break it to you, but nobody cares about those" is exactly part of the topic. I'd give money to go back to a SO where people cared and helped. Not judged from an high pedestal. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 10:51
  • 2
    Also, since you are so adamant about "objectiveness": in old SO you'd easily get 3-4 replies. Most were far from perfect, some were low quality or borderline off-topic. But out of 3-4 replies, with some creativity, you could slap together your solution. Enter new SO: you get the cold, clean site. Some will be even scared to ask anything because they know they'll get either ignored or downvoted anyway.. because. Others will get zero or 1 reply, the less than perfect ones get annihilated. Result: if the reply did not help, now you can't even look at other replies to creatively create a solution. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 11:00
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    Your assertion that people no longer care is also more than incorrect. I do care about creating a high quality resource of questions and answers. I do not care in the slightest for solving trivial homework problems for lazy people, or creating a free remote debugging service. And helping individual people is exactly part of the problem - if you help all those poor lazy users who can't even ask a decent question, you flood the site with crap and in turn make things worse for the users who actually care about quality. And your last comment just contains more baseless assumptions...
    – l4mpi
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 11:00
  • 14
    "Also, why just because I posted a reply, it got a -1? This is another issue with the "new SO": people getting downvoted just because." Your very first response is to make up baseless allegations and to feel sorry for yourself? Not cool, man. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 12:49
  • 6
    Your last paragraph. Why shouldn't we expect askers to go through the same process that us answerers use to answer your questions? By doing so you save us answerers time by solving the problem yourself and not asking, or by providing said research in the question as a starting point for answerers.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 19:31
  • 4
    You're doing it again. Asserting that "concentric ostracism" has "ensued" because you "just dared to say something". No, mate. No. You are being criticised for your ridiculous childish behaviour and nonsense logic. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 9:47
  • 2
    Feedback = "childish behavior and nonsense logic". Kind words that are a testament to today's SO attitude towards end users but also non hardcore answers posters like me. Thank you. This childish behavior worked very well when SO was at its peak. You know, before snotty guys were given the -1 weapons and people could REPLY (not talking about questions) knowing it'd be at least appreciated. No medals, no gold, no e-peen, just a thank you was enough. Yeah, childish behavior that was it. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 10:15
  • 2
    A "-1 sherrif" - language like that doesn't bolster your point. If you believe some incorrect behavior is happening, then provide specific examples, meaning links. Explain your side of the story, and do so objectively. Because your post and comments make it sound like people are personally attacking you, when the truth is no one cares who you or I are, we're just evaluating the words you've posted. Exactly like a good resource should.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 15:54
  • 1
    It's hard to notice for those who discuss and reply on SO fairly often but easy to spot for those like me who come in here once every 2 months. By now I have been teached by people like @gnats about what's going on. My "I smell something" instinct was right, SO is indeed suffering growth pains and - very sadly, it seems it'll going to cut out people with my "small, warm, welcoming" community type tastes. A sad day for me, it's like breaking a long lasting relation with somebody you love. I guess it's time to harden up, pack my things and move on. Your keyword: "the truth is no one cares". Commented Apr 3, 2015 at 17:20
-26

Yes, the closing police are fiercer now and it significantly affects what it is like to use the site. Often I feel like only they parse a question (or even the title) rather than check its content. I know that has happened to me. I am grateful that some great questions got their answer before the closing police moved in and brought such behavior to an abrupt halt, because I really needed the answer to some of those questions.

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  • 19
    "... because I really needed the answer to some of those questions." And that's kind of the problem, people using this as a "answer MY question NOW" service, rather than the "compendium of useful, programming-related questions and answers". Meaning useful to more people than yourself. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:21
  • Actually they were useful to the person that asked them. Typically they were upvoted, but closed. So I really don't think it was just me.
    – user334911
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:22
  • Besides you are trying to invalidate an end users observation just by name calling. I am, by your account, a purely selfish entity and wanted to misuse the site in the first place. Honestly, it seems like the kind of reaction I feel represents the disconcerting changes in what the site is like now.
    – user334911
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:24
  • 1
    None of this is new. This is how the site has always been. SO has been fighting the war on $hit since day 1. SO wasn't a beacon of crap questions 2 years ago (although plenty of crap questions slip through the cracks; it has been true throughout the site's history, including now).
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:25
  • 7
    what name calling? there was not an iota of name calling in his comment Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:26
  • Maybe not name calling as such, but I clarified my meaning when I said "I am, by your account a purely selfish entity that wanted to misuse the site in the first place."
    – user334911
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:28
  • 5
    "Often I feel like only they parse a question (or even the title) rather than check its content" Guilty, and not ashamed of it. Titles (and the first couple lines of text) are what help me decide if i want to click on the question to upvote, downvote, and/or answer/close it. If i see a title + description that makes it look like a poor question, i'm going to open it and downvote it, then see if there's anything I can do to help improve it. Too many users take downvotes too negatively. A downvote is an indication that the question needs to be improved.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:30
  • 6
    I never called you any names, and I'm sorry if you took offense. I merely stated that the attitude evinced by that statement is part of the problem SO has. The goal of the site, from the beginning, was to compile a list of high-quality programming questions and their high-quality answers. Not to answer every programming question, and not even to help every programmer, except by providing a single, searchable resource for the high-quality questions programmers have. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:39
  • 3
    And I'm not invalidating your observation. Quite the opposite -- I recognize your observation as accurate. I merely am bemoaning the fact that your perception of the site's purpose does not reflect what I believe to be its intended purpose. Now it may be that it is I who needs to change his perception, but from the voting and comments, I think not. Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:44
  • 1
    Thanks for the clarification. Not offended, just stating what I took your meaning to be. Glad it was other than what I understood it to be.
    – user334911
    Commented Apr 1, 2015 at 20:49
  • @MikeMcCaughan "And that's kind of the problem, people using this as a "answer MY question NOW" service, rather than the "compendium of useful, programming-related questions and answers" => this is not a Wiki. People ALWAYS came here with their problem, not because some holy superior Cause pushed them here to post humanity lifting questions. For those (and I have done it multiple times) who feel like sharing their knowledge SO give them a Wiki like medium. Therefore the other questions not in it, are not meant to be placed like this was a Wiki. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 7:55
  • 1
    @KevinB "Too many users take downvotes too negatively. A downvote is an indication that the question needs to be improved". This is true on paper. In practice the process is this: you spend 30 minutes creating a question, you have about 5 minutes of time AND have to post it in the correct day of week and time (else it gets buried with no anwer). If somebody does not show up, basically your chances turn slim. Usually somebody shows up and within 0.1 seconds puts a nice -1 because... well he won't bother saying why. Once you get -1, you can change whatever you want, your question is DEAD, GONE. Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 9:01
  • 4
    @DarioFumagalli Is it "like a wiki" in that it's intended to be a resource, not a forum discussion board. So it should share more in common with encyolpedias, reference books, and wikis than it should with forums. That means there's certain standards to meet before you post a question or answer. And those standards are easy to meet. If someone downvoted you because you didn't meet the standards, then perhaps you're blatantly ignoring the standards. If so, then fix yourself! If not, ignore the downvote and move on, because others will come along and vote accordingly.
    – mason
    Commented Apr 2, 2015 at 15:59

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