1

For reference, here's my flag history as of January 8th, 2015 :
enter image description here

This is the SEDE query I used to help find these not constructive, obsolete comments. I've already finished this one, and this one, and this one which were 1 flag auto-nuke comments so I didn't have to bother the mods with them.

I'd say out of my 14,692 comment flags, probably more than 11,500 have been 1 flag auto-nuke comments. So I actively try to find comments to flag which will auto-nuke so I don't have to bother the busy mods. I like flagging comments in which a user pastes the same text to many different posts over and over again. I have cleaned all the auto-nuke ones out though, so I have to flag comments that won't auto-nuke.

To make it as easy as possible on the mods, I chose to flag the same text comments, so they could easily delete the comments. I have heard multiple moderators claim that it is very easy for them when people flag the same text comments since they can just keep the mouse on the delete button. So that's what I did for the most part earlier today. There was like 3 types of the same text comment that probably counted for like 70 or so flags. Then the other 30 were very similar text but not exact, and they were very obviously not constructive. So all and all, I estimate that it probably would take a normal moderator, about 6-8 minutes to delete all 100 of them.

Here's a couple examples of the same text comments that were left on many posts in the past, in which I flagged earlier today:

enter image description here

more examples of this same text ^ comment that was left on many posts that I flagged as not constructive but were declined: one, two, three, four, five, and many more..

enter image description here

more examples of this same text ^ comment that was left on many posts that I flagged as not constructive but were declined: one, two, and more..

In conclusion, I guess I'm just posting this to get feedback, and primarily make the community aware of these wrongly declined flags. I already know about how the mods have enough work on their plate as it is. I've already suggested ways to help with getting rid of comments in better, more efficient ways. I've already asked the head pun intended honcho if they got any new auto-delete rules set up, but no response. I did try searching for some possible new ones a couple weeks ago but couldn't find any.

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  • 36
    Moderators have indicated in the past that they prefer to not have people flag based on SEDE queries, and just flag stuff as they come across it. That might explain some of it. Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:28
  • 18
    I read that part, but I'm not sure thats a green light to flag hundreds or thousands of comments based on a SEDE query. Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:31
  • 3
    That certainly seems unusual to me; I'd expect them to have far better tools for dealing with mass comment spam than having users flag every single post and going through each one.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:31
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    Yes, I read the whole thing before posting. It doesn't really change anything Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:32
  • @Servy You'd think.. :/
    – Seth
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:32
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    Did you get banned from flagging because of the declined comment flags? Did you get a penalty other than not increasing your helpful flag stats for the day?
    – Taryn Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:34
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    @Servy There are no tools at all for mass comment spam. Well, there is account destruction, but in most cases going nuclear isn't an option. Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:36
  • 2
    @MadScientist That seems like a rather significant oversight.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:36
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    You are saying it is just 6-8 minutes to delete all 100 but if multiple people are doing the same thing then it can quickly add up (if just 5 people do the same then it jumps to 30-40 minutes) and will take time away from dealing with other flags which may be more important to deal with.
    – Joe W
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:56
  • 6
    Other people can be flagging comments that have a more pressing need to dealt with then someone asking for an answer to be accepted. The moderators will not know the importance of what is in the queue at any give time just that it has gone up
    – Joe W
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:07
  • 1
    @bluet Not the way the system is built currently.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:23
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    See also: Can I flag posts from SEDE or a search in bulk if they're low quality?
    – Jon Ericson StaffMod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 22:07
  • 1
    Related to @JonEricson's post...the asker has an answer on that question
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 23:07

2 Answers 2

38

The reason we tend to decline comment flags that focus on the results of an SEDE query is that it tends to be viewed as one of two things:

  1. Focusing on asking humans to intervene in something that is clearly automatable (thus wasting human time)
  2. gaming the system to gain the ability to flag more

Your time is almost always better spent actually moderating and flagging things that are hitting the front page now, not worrying about years old comments that talk about accept rate.

We need users to help moderate what's in front of us now, not what is suboptimal from the past.

If you'd like to, figure out all the choice phrases that you think are obsolete or should be flagged, and then write an SEDE query that can pull those up. Then, open a meta question about whether or not the SE team should do something automated to fix these issues; be it a system comment to the user (viz: "Comments about accept rate tend to be viewed as noisy.") or ask other users to help you clear these by flagging them. If three more more people flag these comments, they'll be handled before they get to our doorstep.

And yes, as a moderator I want better tooling around moderating comments.

I use weasel words like 'tends' because sometimes we have nothing else in the flag queue and we don't have anything else to spend our time on, so those flags are helpful at those times. But that doesn't happen very often.

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    Also, different comment types have different levels of priority. I like to handle rude and offensive comment flags before anything else, because we want to avoid fights before they start and protect users from attack. "Other" comment flags may also indicate problems we need to handle. "Not constructive" comments can sometimes indicate rudeness, but they tend to be less of a priority than the previous two types. "Obsolete" comment flags are at the very bottom of the list, and I honestly don't bother with them most of the time. They are rarely worth acting on until everything else is done.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:27
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    "gaming the system to gain the ability to flag more" is certainly not the case here. Screen shot shows over 5K helpful regular flags and over 14K helpful comments flags, meaning that this flagger has reached max 100 flags a day long time ago
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:38
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    @gnat We don't know that. We can't see who flagged a comment.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:39
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    @GeorgeStocker I know. Not seeing who flagged is a convenient smoke screen to do 96 slippery declines in a row isn't it. "Oh somebody unseen is allowed to flag 96 times a day and is now trying to squeeze flag weight to let them flag 97 a day"
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:44
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    @gnat we don't know if it's only one person. People coordinate. It's also entirely likely multiple moderators will handle the same flags; meaning that there could be hundreds more each moderator doesn't know about. We can't make assumptions based on numbers because there are a lot of factors at play.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 21:48
  • 1
    @GeorgeStocker yeah sure. Every one of 17 moderators picked their "share" (4-5 of total 96 flags) and independently decided that these particular cases of "+1 thank you" are worth keeping
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 23:37
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    "Flags should be closed as [helpful] under most circumstances. If you feel strongly that a question was flagged in bad faith, it is okay to mark it [declined]. But try to err on the side of clearing as [helpful] whenever the user is trying to be genuinely helpful, even if you do not necessarily act on the flag..." (mod newsletter)
    – gnat
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 23:39
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    @gnat You can't do that with a comment flag. It's either decline or delete.
    – hichris123
    Commented Jan 9, 2015 at 0:44
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    @gnat I'd argue that In this case the user isn't trying to be genuinely helpful. Running a SEDE query to flag a collection of year old comments is not trying to be helpful. It's just generating needless work. To quote the answer, "We need users to help moderate what's in front of us now, not what is suboptimal from the past".
    – ivarni
    Commented Jan 9, 2015 at 6:43
  • 4
    @bluet YMMV. Personally I think it's rather rude to use data queries to raise flags that are manually handled but we can't all agree about everything. I suspect a lot of the people who comes into a question from Google don't waste much time reading comments, but I obviously don't have any hard data to back that up. Either way, 96 declined flags is a fairly big indication from the mods that this particualy kind of flags are not wanted.
    – ivarni
    Commented Jan 9, 2015 at 7:49
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When you flag a multitude of comments (or posts, for that matter) in the same way, you potentially earn all those flags. But you also take the risk of a moderator not agreeing with you for one flag (and since they are all the same), decline all of your flags at once.

While clearing those flags may or may not be easy (please remember that flags are not necessarily ordered the way you think they are, and there are hundreds of flags in the queue at any given time.

You flagging posts via SEDE query isn't very helpful, moderators can run the same SEDE queries and act on those too, all you're doing is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seKaU-qQuts

Personally, I'm not sure what I would have done, had I been in the position of the mod(s) that declined your flags, I might have done the same.

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    @bluet, it's been mentioned that the comment review queue needs to improve by many. They know. It's on the "to do list". In the meantime, they have only the tools available.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:49
  • 18
    @bluet And your robo-flagging is the same as robo-editors that edit messages with "improved formatting" although it's hardly worth anyone's time. It's not that those flags are invalid, it's just that it's not worth a moderator's time to embark on a large scale cleanup operation based on a SEDE query, just because someone flagged it. Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:49
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    Yes, the flag system is relatively broken, and yes, there may not be enough moderators (although that's debatable), but what you are doing isn't making anything better Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:50
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    It's also worth noting the point made in this answer: "remember that flags are not necessarily ordered the way you think they are". Your flags appear one at a time without any other context on whether these are the exact same comments that user has made elsewhere.
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:50
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    @bluet Adding additional work for mods and making it harder for them to improve the site is being unhelpful, and thus its entirely unsurprising to see declined flags. in much the same way that an answer to a question can be technically correct and still be unhelpful, you can flag bad content in a ways that's not helpful.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 8, 2015 at 20:50

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