33

This is the audit: https://stackoverflow.com/review/late-answers/6345226

It clearly answers the question. I do not know whether it is correct or not, so I cannot safely vote up or down.

Should I have behaved differently? Was the answer to audit correctly chosen?

My particular thought process was:

  • The question is asking whether the communication is done through Sockets. The answer is it is done through an HTTP request. HTTP requests use sockets, so the answer is plausible, but I'm not sure. So don't vote up.
  • The answer is a little short, but could be complete valid. So don't vote down.

I'm banned because of this for 2 days.

16
  • 20
    In my opinion, this was a bad audit. If the way to pass the audit was to recommend deletion, then my reply is that this post did not warrant deletion since it was actually an attempt to answer the question. If the way to pass this audit was to downvote, then this makes no damn sense, given the fundamental principle of SO is that upvotes and downvotes are our own to use as we see fit (provided we don't engage in vote fraud).
    – Louis
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 12:33
  • 16
    You didn't get banned because of this audit. You got banned because you failed too many of them. That's a problem you can't get help with here when you don't tell us about the other ones. Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 12:38
  • 3
    @HansPassant I guess it was the tipping point. I know that. What I don't know is how I can find all my reviews (passed and failed) without going through hundreds of them in the history.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 12:43
  • 1
    "how I can find all my reviews (passed and failed)" I remember a feature request about this in MSO/MSE, but I can't find it. Maybe you can write another, so people can find the dupe :P
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 14:36
  • 3
    @Braiam those feature-requests sadly go nowhere most of the time. I'm writing a CasperJS script which will give me the report in some good format.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 15:20
  • 5
    Why do you review a question if unsure? In that case you MUST skip and let someone else better qualified to review it. Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 4:20
  • 2
    I'm banned because of this for 2 days. <-- this is something interesting. Do you now get banned for having a "wrong" opinion? What kind of ban is that? Question/answer or just banned from reviewing? Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 15:31
  • 3
    Definitely a bad audit here. If you're approving stuff like this, you deserve your ban.
    – AStopher
    Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 15:48
  • @Neolisk It was a complete review ban and not just one queue.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 15:52
  • 5
    @cybermonkey What exactly are you saying? What stuff is that? It certainly isn't a comment. I don't see a reason this should have been deleted.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 15:54
  • 1
    @ArtjomB. In this situation I would personally downvote, flag, and add a comment asking for expansion in the answer. This was not done in this case and as a result, I agree with you. At the time the answer was removed, it was a low-quality answer that needed further expansion. If the answer is consequently edited and expanded as a result of my comment, my flag would be 'disputed' and no further action would be required.
    – AStopher
    Commented Nov 30, 2014 at 17:31
  • 1
    Here on SO there is a tendency of making tricky audits with the clear intention to revoke your privileges. It is coming probably from the moderators or cms, and for the SE is it seemingly okay. The only what you can do: from the point of their clearly demonstrated unfairness, you have the moral ground to game the system, where you can.
    – peterh
    Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 0:57
  • 7
    @PeterHorvath Audit cases are automatically generated, there is no larger conspiracy at work to revoke your or anyone else's review-rights.
    – ivarni
    Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 8:55
  • 3
    @ivarni I don't think it were really so, I can review 6 different SE sites, and found major differences between them. Second what I found is, that verbal clashes with multiple high-repu users / moderators can result a series of sudden mystically hard audit questions. Third what I found: there is no chance to ever try to communicate the unfairness of the system, here the "community" simply won't understand anything about the topic. Thus what I do: I collect my steward badge where it is possible, and then I leave this thrashpile.
    – peterh
    Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 9:11
  • 10
    @PeterHorvath - Let me state this clearly: audit cases are not chosen manually. Getting into an argument with a moderator will not magically trigger the system to hand you harder audit cases. You're seeing conspiracies where a much simpler explanation is that the system occasionally picks bad audit cases. Any differences you see between Stack Overflow and other SE sites are cultural, not systematic. Types of questions and answers that might be accepted elsewhere have been rejected by the community here, thus when you go against that (as I have at times), you might encounter some resistance.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 21:05

2 Answers 2

45

That's one of those fun edge cases. It was flagged as "very low quality" and "not an answer" by two users, and frankly I think I might have declined those flags. It was an attempt at an answer, albeit short and a little rough.

Instead, those flags were validated in review by a split vote of reviewers (6 for deletion, 3 against), and the answer was then deleted due to the number of delete votes cast by the community. This caused the post to be used as an audit.

Moderators were told to be strict on flags like this because of the potential for these being used in audits, but community voters don't follow the same guidance. I'm thinking that community-validated flags like this should not be used to trigger audit cases, only moderator-approved ones. At the very least, we need a way to dispute audits like this, since you weren't the first one to be tripped up by this particular case (and probably won't be the last, because we currently have no way of removing it).

I didn't see a history of terrible reviews here, so I've lifted your ban.

2
  • 9
    So a possible solution would be to restrict only post for audit where the reviews where unanimous (or one against) for more quality audits? Is there a problem in doing this?
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 16:13
  • 5
    I wonder too why the system is using split vote reviews as audits? Does it draw the cases for the audits just randomly? As classifiers of good and bad I would just use the more clear cases. Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 8:33
14

"It clearly answers the question." yet you "do not know whether it is correct or not"? For those cases the actually "safe" course of action is Skip.

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  • 7
    That is true, but then nothing would ever get done. It's rare that I would actually know the answer without doing some research.
    – Artjom B.
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 11:55
  • 7
    @ArtjomB. then leave it to others that can, and/or use filters so only those that you do know are shown to you.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 11:56
  • 15
    While I agree with being save on skip, I can't follow you with clearly answers vs. don't know whether it's correct. Even a wrong answer is a valid answer an might just be downvoted, but not deleted.
    – bummi
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 13:05
  • 3
    @bummi but if you don't have the qualifications to do either (flag or downvote), you should skip it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 13:29
  • I agree with it (partial) very, often answers, just being wrong or poor, but clearly trying to answer the question get just deleted, I don't think this is ok.
    – bummi
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 13:36
  • 1
    @bummi yet, you don't know if downvote or upvote it, so you should just skip it since you do not know.
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 13:48
  • 24
    No, we don't delete answers that are wrong, so we don't need to know if an answer is correct to audit it. We delete answers that are spam, links, or nonsense.
    – bmargulies
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 13:52
  • 4
    @bmargulies where I'm saying that we should?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 14:10
  • 3
    To me, that's the implication of writing that you should 'skip' if you aren't an expert on the content.
    – bmargulies
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 18:42
  • 1
    @bmargulies and you see a problem with that?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 18:48
  • 15
    Yes I do. The judgement called for is, 'is the "answer" spam, a link, or complete nonsense." Not 'is it a correct answer'. That's what downvotes are for. You don't have to be an expert to make that judgement, usually.
    – bmargulies
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 18:51
  • 2
    @bmargulies are you aware that we are here talking about the "Late Answers" queue? Where you are supposed to "Watch for hidden gems, non-answers, and spam." how can you identify a "hidden gem" if whatever is written there seems Chinese to you?
    – Braiam
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 18:55
  • 3
    I don't see how to reconcile Shog9's recent writing that 'all voting in review queues was a mistake' with 'hidden gems'. So I'm stumped, and your remark stands as the end of this.
    – bmargulies
    Commented Nov 29, 2014 at 18:57
  • 1
    I agree with this answer that people should not review posts that they have no clue about, particularly in cases like this. By the way, a downvote would have made it pass, too. Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 8:47
  • 3
    @Trilarion: no, but you do not fail either. You just skip it, really. Commented Dec 1, 2014 at 8:49

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