19

I am developing ASP.NET applications for the CMS Composite C1 and run into trouble now and then that is very specific to the CMS itself and the way it integrates ASP.NET functionality.

Unfortunately my questions on SO about this always seem to attract comments and answers from users that don't even know the CMS and just assume that this is a vanilla ASP.NET problem.

I really appreciate that people are trying to help, but this usually leads to prolonged discussions where I have to convince them that the normal approach won't help in this case, because I am working with a very specific system.

I use the proper tag and now also tried prefixing my question with a note that makes it clear this question is about the CMS specifically, but still I get answers from user not familiar with the CMS. Examples:

MvcPlayer renders <html> tag

Routing values to the MVC Player function?

This happened on almost every question I posted about this CMS, sometimes the users delete their comments/answers after I explained to them that this is not a vanilla ASP.NET question.

What is the best approach here?

  • Should I just ignore those comments (seems rude and might stop people from answering who actually could help)?
  • Should I keep having the same discussion every time I post a question about this CMS?
  • Or is there a better way to make it clear to people that they probably won't be able to help if they are only familiar with ASP.NET but don't know the system in question?
7
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    I don't think just starting with the words "In a Composite C1 application" is anywhere near sufficient a version of "prefixing my question with a note that makes it clear this question is about the CMS specifically". Prefix it with a note that actually does make that clear, and you may deter a lot more of the useless comments and answers.
    – abarnert
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 22:53
  • 3
    Also, your goal shouldn't really be about eliminating useless answers, because in any specialized sub-area of a popular tag that's likely to mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater. But if you can get things to the point where anyone who mistakenly answers has clearly not read your question, then you no longer have any reason to feel bad about ignoring them, downvoting them, or otherwise being "rude", because you're not the one who's being rude.
    – abarnert
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 23:00
  • 5
    I think you have to at least entertain the notation that your question attracting inappropriate answers may have something to do with your question no being sufficiently clear on what it does need. Although, I understand the frustration when people don't properly read the question. I think getting a totally unsuitable answer may well have a chilling effect the chance of anybody else answering too. Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 17:31
  • 3
    You may consider adding a bounty to especially tough questions, specifically stating that you are looking for solutions specific to Composite C1. In my limited experience adding a bounty gives you better than 50% chance to receive a correct answer.
    – PM 77-1
    Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 18:16
  • Simple, you don't; you can respond to the answers and comments anyway you see fit as long as it's respectful. If you feel you've prefixed it efficiently then it's no more rude for you to ignore the comment as it is to neglect to consider your content. It's surely no guarantee, but have you considered writing a short summary of these facts at the top of your bio and linking to it with Typical ASP.NET solutions haven't worked... in your posts? It might at least help you sleep at night :) Commented Oct 23, 2014 at 1:13
  • You can't really 'stop' them. You can make your question very specific, more so than you think you need. After that, it is up to people to read the question. Commented Oct 23, 2014 at 17:42
  • 1
    If the answer cannot be used, it is because it's wrong, and it's wrong for conrete, testable reasons: given the tools, environment and deliverables you are working with, if you apply the advice given in the answer, it fails in a specific way. This shows that the person who wrote the answer didn't actually test it using the configuration you are working with. Provide information about how to obtain that configuration, and that's it. If people suggest changes to the configuration, explain that it's a given: don't change my X system to Y so that your Z solution applies, but fix Z.
    – Kaz
    Commented Oct 23, 2014 at 19:44

6 Answers 6

57

If your question is so Composite C1-specific that none of the ASP.NET (MVC) principles, comments and answers apply, then don't tag the question as ASP.NET (MVC).

This will prevent it from showing to people interested in those tags.

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    I thought about this solution before, but it kind of makes sense to distinguish questions about the CMS. As said above, my questions are about integrating ASP.NET and the CMS. There are other questions about the CMS that have nothing to do with ASP.NET. So as a filter, it is definitely useful to add more tags so people know which aspect of the CMS your question is about. But yeah, I guess this could be a last measure to help with my problem.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 10:50
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    Also its not like the ASP.NET principles, comments and answers don't apply. They simply don't apply if you don't take the other tag (the CMS one) into account. But would you not tag a question about PHP and the HTTP protocol with the PHP tag because it cannot be answered only with knowledge about HTTP?
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 10:54
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    The problem is that people just assume that because they have knowledge about one of the tags, they can answer the question.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 10:56
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    The responses to this question are spot-on (your question does not seem to contain enough information to solve the problem and the comments are helpful), whereas if the answer to this question is invalid, you should remove the asp.net-mvc-routing tag from it.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 11:36
  • Are you familiar with the MvcPlayer function of Composite C1 (which the question is about)? If not, how can you reasonably judge if the information in my question is sufficient or not?
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 11:41
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    I am familiar with Razor and MVC. What you explain can be caused by issues pointed out to you in the comments. "Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" needs to be analyzed by you, using the hints you got in the comments.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 11:49
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    Not sure if arguing about the questions content makes too much sense here, but here goes: It always works in the sense that the View renders, but also always renders additional html-tags for some reason. I tried the hints in the comments because it was possible they actually might have been from people knowing the system. (Turns out they didn't.) The problem is not a general problem with my Views or Actions, but only happens in combination with the MvcPlayer. You just assume that because you know Razor and MVC you can assess the situation. No offense,but that just doesn't work in this case
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:00
  • My question could have been clearer I guess, but still the problem stands that people just assume they know what is going on without knowing Composite C1. I guess I will just follow your advice and leave the MVC tag out in the future.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:01
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    I'm with @atticae on this, CodeCaster just proved their point for them.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:03
  • I don't say I can answer the question, I'm saying there's probably not enough information in the question to answer it, which is demonstrated by the comments and the lack of answers. I understand your concern that the tags may attract people thinking they can answer your questions, all I'm saying is what they are saying in their comments is very relevant to the MVC/Razor part of your question. If those comments don't answer or help your question, then the tags you used are irrelevant to the question.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:13
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    Sorry, but the comments just indicate that there is not enough information for people who don't know Composite C1. I think that I can assume that people know the system the question is about. The lack of answers has probably to do with the relatively small amount of people on SO who work with C1. The activity in that tag is low overall.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:17
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    "If those comments don't answer or help your question, then the tags you used are irrelevant to the question." - That's one way to look at it. From where I stand you are blaming me for people not looking at all the tags and making assumptions. As I said, both tags apply, but you have to look at them together, not just take one of them and say "I know that!". There is no "Composite-C1-ASP.NET-MVC" tag and I don't think this would be a good idea either.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:22
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    @atticae As I am not particularly familiar with mvc, razor, or Composite C1, I will not try to give advice as to where the problem lies. Having said that, I would like to point out, that looking at your question about mvc you seem to be discrediting any answers that are not specific to Composite C1 (which may be correct in doing, I cannot speak to that), however, you give no clear justification as to how/why you have ruled out problems with the other systems. At which point, I feel most of the suggestions are valid, as you have not clearly addressed why they are not. Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 18:54
26

As other answers have suggested, tagging and adding disclaimers to your post may help deter unwanted answers from those people who can't really help you. In addition I can think of a couple of other things you can do that may help you out.

First, downvote the bad answers. The tooltip for the downvote button says "This answer is not useful." If the answer is wrong and does not apply to you at all it is a prime candidate for a downvote. There will always be the "fastest gun" rep hunter types that will just throw something at your question to see if something sticks, but having answers with downvotes may discourage them if they feel they might *gasp* lose rep for not reading and answering appropriately.

Second, you can also leave a comment on these answers as you have been letting the answerer know that their answer does not apply because you are using a certain CMS. Hopefully others looking at the question will notice and think before they answer. Now I know this doesn't help if the answer gets deleted but the next point may help with that.

Third, you may need to edit your question to make it clearer. Judging by the posts you linked they seem pretty clear already. If you are getting the same proposed answers or you want to be extra clear from the start, it may be useful to add something like "I have tried doing [Vanilla MVC solution 1], [Vanilla MVC solution 2], etc., but because of [CMS] these solutions do not work." How much you choose to explain about why those didn't work is up to you.

At the end of the day you will never be able to completely prevent wrong or bad answers from coming in. The best you can hope for is to discourage it as much as possible.

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    +1 for listing what vanilla solutions you have already tried. Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 21:01
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    In my experience, adding disclaimers turns a lot of people off. "I'm not interested in _____" is a surefire way to start a fight on Stack Overflow.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 2:49
  • @corsiKa Maybe, but, as an example, I've seen so many SQL questions where someone with a bad schema needs to do something and they get a whole bunch of comments / answers telling them to fix the schema. Then the OP has to respond to a lot of people telling them that for whatever reason they can't change it. It might turn some people off, but it also can save a lot of time and effort for both the OP and the answerers.
    – Becuzz
    Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 13:22
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    @corsiKa: Sure, you have to put it nicely and clearly. "I'm not interested in ____" is likely to annoy people. "Answers involving ____ won't work for me because _____" are less likely to annoy people. Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 17:27
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    @Matt If you want the method least likely to elicit those answers, you should add "I have attempted ____, but it was thwarted by ____" - in this case, you're saying you're receptive to the answer, but only if the answer can overcome the outragious requirement. In this case, the OP is really not interested in receiving those answers, so that kind of approach won't work.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 17:31
  • @corsiKa: You can word it however you like. I believe there probably is a nice way to say "no plain vanilla ASP.NET answers please" without rubbing people the wrong way. Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 17:34
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    @Becuzz: Personally, my response to "I can't change the schema" is generally "Why can't you improve the schema?". Sometimes they have good reasons, but usually they don't. When they don't, they can learn something, and occasionally end up accepting exactly the answer they said they weren't interested in. And even when they do, there's usually more to the story. The explanation of why they can't change the schema is helpful in framing the problem better, and in getting better answers.
    – ruakh
    Commented Oct 22, 2014 at 21:44
14

The ASP.NET (Webforms) tag and the ASP.NET MVC tag are relevant here, as Composite C1 is built on those technologies.

The solution will end up requiring an understanding of the ASP.NET pipeline; so the tags make sense there as well.

The problem is it appears to be one of two things:

  1. a bug in Composite C1 CMS (in which case you should file a bug report)
  2. A configuration issue in how you're using Composite C1 CMS (in which case, their documentation is where you will find your answer, and you should head there).

In both cases, the lack of help you're seeing is actually a sign that we're probably not the best people to field this question -- the Composite C1 CMS people are. So while you can certainly post your question on Stack Overflow, don't expect that to be the best place for it to be answered.

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  • I am well aware that C1 is not strong on SO (yet) and I don't expect a quick answer. (Can't blame a guy for trying though ;) I simply was hoping to get rid of the noise and irrelevant discussions on those questions somehow. :)
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:53
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    In fact, the C1 forums are even less active, so SO is as good as place as any for those questions right now. But I guess that's not really relevant here.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:55
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    @atticae The noise and irrelevant discussions are a sign: Take them as such. It's ok if we can't answer all the programming questions out there. Good news is that when you take your problem to them and they answer it, you can always write down the answer to solve the issue on Stack Overflow, improving our knowledge and helping future visitors.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:55
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    @atticae If the Composite CMS C1 folks aren't answering a bug report (on Codeplex, at their source code site), then that's a sign as well.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:56
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    What do you suggest then I should do with that sign? Post somewhere else? Abandoning the CMS is not really an option right now. I was hoping to get more C1 people on SO (they certainly exist), I still think it's a great system. I have been answering other C1 questions here as well in the past (could do more I guess).
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:58
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    @atticae If they are not willing to answer a bug report (and given that you haven't filed one yet, we don't know the answer to that), then your next step is to pay for support. You could also (since it's open source) patch their software. Or, you could vote with your feet. All are valid options. Discussion forums are different than bug reports. I wouldn't use a discussion forum as someplace to post a bug report.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 13:00
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    Well, I am not even sure if it is a bug tbh. Maybe I am just using it wrong.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 13:03
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    @GeorgeStocker to me some of your comments just don't seem to correspond to reality most software developers work with. Many if not most of us didn't choose the products and cannot choose to change them; they've been given. Paying for support is a choice of whoever owns the solution, which isn't usually the developer either. There are also plenty of products where documentation is inadequate (if not most), and bug fixes might be years away if done at all..
    – eis
    Commented Oct 24, 2014 at 10:09
  • If the product provides adequate support, fair enough; often it isn't so. Those are situations where a system like SO can be of great help.
    – eis
    Commented Oct 24, 2014 at 10:12
4

You say:

I use the proper tag and now also tried prefixing my question with a note that makes it clear this question is about the CMS specifically, but still I get answers from user not familiar with the CMS.

But in your example, the prefix is pretty minimal:

In a Composite C1 application, I am trying to pass values from the URL to the MVC Player function, but have trouble because the values are part of the path and not in the query string.

Those 5 words don't seem to make it very clear that people who don't know Composite C1 aren't going to be able to answer the question. If that's what you're trying to do, say that. If you're getting flooded with useless comments and answers, then it's better to go overboard than to be too subtle. Maybe:

I'm building a Composite C1 application (which is different from a standard ASP.NET MVC application in ways that are directly relevant to this question; see this link for more details). In this application, I am trying to pass values from the URL to the MVC Player function, but have trouble because the values are part of the path and not in the query string.

The version in Lankymart's answer is probably overkill.

As long as you get to the point where anyone who mistakenly answers has clearly not read your question, I wouldn't feel bad about just commenting and downvoting them for it, or ignoring them, or anything else that might seem "rude".

2

I think the key here is in where you place the emphasis in your question.

For example, if you want ASP.NET MVC-based solutions that still account for the constraints of your CMS, then simply mentioning the CMS isn't going to be enough to get the MVC experts providing answers that are useful to you. Abstract the CMS out of the question and explain the relevant constraints instead.

For example, your second question mentions the CMS but then focuses purely on the "MVC routing problem." This precludes MVCers who don't know the CMS (your main answerer-base, given the MVC focus of the question) from posting useful answers and makes it difficult for them to identify whether their solutions are feasible or not. Instead, abstract away from the CMS and explain the constraints that cause the problem:

I am working with a CMS that produces URLs of the following format and I need this to route to... I can't override x in context y because it is provided by a third-party library...

Or, if you want answers that focus on a CMS-specific solution, target your question differently:

How can I get <CMS feature here> to produce the URLs that I want?

Essentially, the key is to isolate on which side of the integration you want answers to focus. Which side you choose is down to you (e.g. is it a limitation of the framework that's causing the problem or do you think you're just misusing - or not fully comprehending - a CMS feature)?

Pick your target audience, aim your question at them and abstract away the other side as much as you can. If you speak about the problem in general terms with equal reference to both sides of the integration, you will probably attract answers from one side or another that don't fully understand the context/constraints.

If your questions can't be answered in the context of a single technology, you probably need to isolate the problem a bit better.

-7

The problem here is you are always going to have overlap and there isn't much you can do about that. What I would say though is try to make it obvious to the point of blatant that this is a question specific to CMS Composite C1. You could do this with a bit of markdown formatting something like

>**IMPORTANT:**
>
>This question is related specifically to the [Composite C1 Content Managament 
System](https://stackoverflow.com/tags/composite-c1/info), please consider this 
when leaving vanilla ASP.Net MVC answers.

Which will give you a formatted block you can add near the start of your question (be careful with placement as it could pollute the Front-Page extract as @brasofilo has pointed out).

IMPORTANT:

This question is related specifically to the Composite C1 Content Managament System, please consider this when leaving vanilla ASP.Net MVC answers.

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    I consider such blocks mostly noise, and would probably remove them, or at least make them less.. smack-in-the-face like and possibly move them to the end of the post. Also I found it easier to put such things into a comment...
    – Vogel612
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 11:21
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    @Vogel612 That is the whole point though, removing defeats the purpose, making it less "smack-in-the-face" (or in other words "blatant") defeats the purpose, moving to the bottom defeats the purpose and you end up in the situation the OP is describing.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 11:22
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    That was the direction I was going in lately, but I don't really like it. Getting right to the point is one of SO's biggest advantages in my eyes, and long introductions are working against that. But I don't really know a good alternative.
    – magnattic
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:12
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    @atticae I wouldn't suggest "long introductions" just an eye catcher that may be makes people think twice before answering, doesn't have to be an essay.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:17
  • If it gonna be this, I'd suggest <sup>***Notice**: Lorem ipsum lorem*</sup>.... [edit], but not at the beginning as it pollutes the extract on the front page. c/c @atticae
    – brasofilo
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:38
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    @brasofilo Appreciate the comment about polluting the front page (didn't think of that), have adjusted my answer accordingly. However regarding the formatting, not sure the <sup> formatting is "eye catching" enough to be useful.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 12:58
  • I don't think it has to be "eye-catching", it just have to be there. If the reader can't catch a <sup>, well...
    – brasofilo
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 14:02
  • Do not put it first, as that takes away from how the question appears on question lists.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 14:26
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    Thanks @KevinB we have covered that.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 14:27
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    @brasofilo You'd think they'd catch the fact that there is more then one tag to consider but there you go.
    – user692942
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 14:28
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    @Lanky, touché! :D
    – brasofilo
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 14:30
  • Thought it better and have to disagree... when we are inside our tags, we're gonna look at tags just occasionally, the focus is on code/content and I'd expect an equivalent attention for both. Admitting that sometimes I go for the code and fast read the content, and this may not end well.
    – brasofilo
    Commented Oct 21, 2014 at 15:54

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