Timeline for What can I learn from the downvotes to my question?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
32 events
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Nov 15 at 15:17 | comment | added | Gimby | @MichaelKay Everyone has the ability to provide feedback, you don't even need to vote in any way. But even with that total freedom and ability... it still doesn't happen. That is not ill will, it is a very unfortunate consequence. One that isn't going to go away by repeating what has been said on meta countless times before, although I must admit that adding "duty" to it is a nice touch. Haven't seen that one before I think. | |
Nov 15 at 9:28 | comment | added | Michael Kay | I guess my perspective is more when answers get downvoted. When questions get downvoted I think people really have a duty to explain why. I think the most common reason questions get downvoted is because you're too confused about the whole situation to formulate your problem as a clear question: you haven't given enough information about the context, probably because you don't understand enough about the context to know what information is needed. | |
Nov 15 at 9:24 | comment | added | Michael Kay | Downvoting without saying why gives you almost no information, and it's usually best to ignore it. Sometimes it's due to pure ignorance (or even malice) on the part of the downvoter. Sometimes you've expressed an opinion with which they disagree (that's especially true on meta, where opinions are welcome!). Sometimes they're being throroughly pedantic about applying SO rules mindlessly (I always put being helpful to the poster above SO compliance, and that sometimes gets me downvotes). Sometimes you tried to be helpful by guessing what an unclear question meant, and got it wrong. | |
Nov 14 at 15:52 | comment | added | Sinatr | I can't see in timeline when negative votes were cast, but I guess after the answer was posted. In 25 minutes before post on meta, every visitor sees the problem in syntax (aka typo). Typos are generally (in my experience) more downvoted than anything else. That's probably a reason. | |
Nov 14 at 15:11 | comment | added | Lundin | As for the very strange voting patterns on your Q&A right now, that's all because of the "meta effect", which is a well-known phenomenon once you discuss a post on meta. The meta effect manifests itself in silly voting patterns in both directions, with a lot of the votes being undeserved, people being more positive/negative than usual when voting after having read the meta discussion. | |
Nov 14 at 15:09 | comment | added | Lundin | My experience about self-answered Q&A in general: 1) writing the question part is actually the hardest part and 2) some people just don't get that these kind of posts are on-topic. Because of these two, you tend to get more random strange down votes than usual. Also, for very well-received Q&A, once you go past approximately +50 or so you start to get "jealousy" down votes which is approximately 1 per 50 up-votes. There's no explanation for those at all, just that some sour Internet troll happened upon your post. | |
Nov 14 at 12:24 | answer | added | Mark Amery | timeline score: 9 | |
Nov 14 at 12:12 | comment | added | Mark Amery |
@Gimby Hmm. Maybe I'm being blind, but I don't see any answer at the post yivi linked to that clearly explains the difference in meaning between using a | at the start of a multiline YAML string vs simply not including one - and even seeing what the difference is by pasting both into an online parser, I am still not 100% sure how/why that led to the precise error with ! that the OP here encountered.
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Nov 14 at 11:53 | comment | added | Gimby | @MarkAmery correct, it's effectively a duplicate question too in my eyes. yivi linked to a post in the comments under the question where one of the answers actually takes the time to explain what the syntax means. But I'm kind of surprised it did not go down the dupe closure path so maybe I missed something. | |
Nov 14 at 11:04 | comment | added | Mark Amery |
The question looks at least okay to me at first glance, but the answer seems rather mediocre. Why does adding the extra | character fix things? Without a full explanation of why the code behaves differently with vs without the extra | , the fix seems like voodoo. (I think I have correctly inferred the full explanation, thanks in part to Benjamin W's comment below the answer, but I expect a solid majority of readers would not understand even with the help of Benjamin's comment.)
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Nov 13 at 22:33 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
To negate with ! you need an expression, not a command. Alternatively: it's not a builtin syntax element, but rather an argument to the if shell builtin. (&& is similarly imperative, not logical.) If that's the source of the misunderstanding then there is a valid underlying question that's purely about shell script. I don't know if there's a canonical for that.
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Nov 13 at 21:06 | comment | added | joel |
@KarlKnechtel thanks for outlining the issues you saw. I understood before asking, that the error message meant sh couldn't find a command, rather than GH actions not finding sh . ! is for negation. "It is your responsibility ... to figure that out first". I have a working knowledge of sh , but tagged it because I could well believe there is something about sh I don't understand. I think running it locally was enough effort for the question. I might reply your other points later. Again, thanks for outlining what you noticed.
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Nov 13 at 19:53 | comment | added | Drew Reese | Are you looking for an explanation beyond the hover tooltip of the down vote button that states "This question does not show any research effort; it is unclear or not useful"? Without any feedback left in comments I think this is all you can glean from the votes, e.g. the perceived usefulness of the post. | |
Nov 13 at 19:36 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @StayOnTarget in the context, yes. Writing a YAML file like this is "programming" the GitHub Actions system - it isn't a generic tech support question - and the embedded shell command also appears to involve programming logic (i.e., it isn't something that a non-programmer would use to operate the computer). | |
Nov 13 at 18:22 | comment | added | StayOnTarget | "software tools commonly used by programmers" are explicitly on topic here (stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic) ... doesn't that include sh and GitHub Actions in the context of the question? | |
Nov 13 at 18:10 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | "It would be a difficult call as an asker because I didn't know if the problem was with <technology X> or <technology Y>. ". This is inherently a problem with the question on Stack Overflow. It is your responsibility before asking to figure that out first. | |
Nov 13 at 18:07 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
"I don't understand how that could be since I very explicitly mention the shell." - it's not clear why you think this matters. Did you read the error message and conclude that sh: 1: !: not found means "some part of the Github Actions implementation can't find sh "? No; it means that sh can't find ! . It's important to have some experience with shell scripting before trying to use it within a special environment like this one or embed shell code in another file format like YAML.
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Nov 13 at 18:03 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
(as far as I'm aware, ! is for history expansion; but I'm not sure if vanilla sh supports it, it is disabled by default in scripts and I can't see why you'd want to use it here, nor how you intend to specify which command from history. All of which is not trying to answer the question, but to explain why the question is confusing.)
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Nov 13 at 17:58 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
" the later sections gives me... only in GitHub Actions. It runs fine on my computer." It's not clear to me what you mean by "runs fine". The code you show is a YAML file that happens to have some shell code embedded within it. How exactly do you "run" that? With Docker or something? Or do you mean that the shell command in isolation works locally? It also isn't clear to me what you expect the command to do. The error is complaining about the ! . What is its specific purpose in the command? Is it, in fact, intended to be part of the shell syntax, or what?
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Nov 13 at 17:20 | history | edited | Laurel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13 at 16:05 | history | became hot meta post | |||
Nov 13 at 15:30 | comment | added | Thom A | "And also if not, what's the CI/CD collective about?" A (very) poor choice by Stack Overflow. If only the Stack Overflow community had mentioned there was a site dedicated to CI/CD within the larger community... Oh wait... They did. | |
Nov 13 at 15:28 | comment | added | joel |
@ThomA I see your reasoning. It would be a difficult call as an asker because I didn't know if the problem was with sh or GitHub Actions. (I originally tagged it sh but someone removed that tag.) Are devops questions not welcome on SO? If not, I'd expect close votes with a view to migrating it, rather than downvotes. And also if not, what's the CI/CD collective about?
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Nov 13 at 15:23 | comment | added | A-Tech | Tbh not much really. The only thing you could change is making the title a full on question like 'Why does only github actions throw "sh: 1: !: not found"?' But thats more of stylistic preference I have noticed on SO. I have the impression that once a question has a negative score it is far more likely to recive more downvotes. This question of mine which I edited (even asking the meta chat for advice) and it keeps getting downvotes on occasion. | |
Nov 13 at 15:17 | history | edited | user17726418 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13 at 14:25 | comment | added | Roddy of the Frozen Peas |
Maybe some people think it's a typo question and not particularly helpful for future readers? It looks like the issue is just the missing | .
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Nov 13 at 13:47 | comment | added | Thom A | Maybe it would be a question better suited for a site for DevOps, DevOps? | |
Nov 13 at 13:29 | comment | added | Gimby | dev/ops questions are tricky on a site originally designed for purely programming problems, Stack Overflow does not understand yet how to judge them. They all look off-topic. If you look at the questions under the github actions tag, you won't find a whole lot of voting love there. Or answers for that matter. | |
Nov 13 at 12:11 | comment | added | Sayse | It doesn't look too bad on the surface, I guess if you were being really picky then it doesn't show research effort but bit that would seem a bit harsh to me, maybe the deleted comments gave more insight? | |
Nov 13 at 12:03 | history | edited | yivi |
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Nov 13 at 11:50 | history | edited | VLAZ | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13 at 11:47 | history | asked | joel | CC BY-SA 4.0 |