Timeline for Proposal to reduce perceived hostility (and a "fix")
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
34 events
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May 18 at 23:34 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @user4581301 Attributing malice to the phrases of another user is the very inspiration of this post to the SO-Meta community. This is SO-Meta where, by consensus, expressing "opinions" is allowed (but, still constrained by a more liberal interpretation of "be civil" than the main site.) This proposal seeks a tiny elaboration to existing guidelines. It recommends the expression of Qs and As in a tone that fewer SO users may be able to find those to be moderately-to-extremely offensive. Some will still be offended that the Sun rises only in the east. One does what one can do... | |
May 18 at 22:55 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @user4581301 The two lines of my comment that you've selected and analysed are nothing more than true statements. I'm old enough to remember "Puff, the Magic Dragon" lyrics being decried for "promoting the use of hallucinogenic drugs". In response, the group put on their prism-spectacles and revealed a similar lightly-veiled message could be found in the words of the American National Anthem... One sees what one wants to see. It's an unfortunate cognitive bias. See also: "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds". | |
May 18 at 22:34 | history | edited | Fe2O3 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add block linking proposal to "future readers" of Q&A. Small layout improvement
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May 17 at 22:48 | history | edited | Fe2O3 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
deleted 8 characters in body
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May 17 at 22:42 | history | edited | Fe2O3 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Append a demonstration block.
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May 17 at 17:27 | comment | added | user4581301 | @DanMašek The thing is, you don't have to write "The code is flawed." The explanation of why the code is flawed will make that the code is flawed clear to anyone willing to read and accept the explanation. And anyone who won't accept it, forget about 'em. they can't be helped. | |
May 17 at 17:23 | comment | added | user4581301 | Well, it's your choice... No compulsion around here... passive-aggressive tone that implies the opposite of what you wrote. You are weakening your own arguments. | |
May 17 at 14:44 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @DanMašek If, as you imply, there's no difference between "your code" and "this code", then you should have very little difficulty using the latter instead of the former. If the former means you're only reaching 20% of the askers and the latter means you reach 85% of the askers... Well, it's your choice... No compulsion around here... | |
May 17 at 14:20 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @DanMašek Be "reasonable" yourself, is all that's intended herein. Defn: having sound judgement; fair and sensible. Senseless to type a response when you formulate the response to cause the recipient to immediately disengage and immediately seek out a good, hot, lathery shower after you've finished with them. | |
May 17 at 14:15 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @DanMašek Why would you NOT want the person you're addressing to pay 95% of their attention to the wisdom you are imparting to them in a calm, relaxed, non-confrontational tone? Do you want all your wisdom SWAMPED by their predominantly emotional reaction turning-off their ears to your accusing tone of "You fool! How could you miss this OBVIOUS flaw?" Who benefits in such an exchange? The asker thinks you're an unmentionable and your advice not worth their time. Why did you even bother typing what you did? It serves nobody! You may as well have not typed anything... Think about it... | |
May 17 at 13:44 | comment | added | Dan Mašek | Why would I want to accommodate unreasonable people? If I wrote the code, and it is flawed, then "Your code is flawed" accurately describes the situation. The important part is what's after "because", and as long as it is correct and objective, then the only person I could possibly be angry is myself for mucking up. | |
May 17 at 9:32 | comment | added | Gimby | Just to note: I fully agree with the sentiment here. Text should be written as impersonal as possible. Outside of meta and comments I prefer to write as if I'm writing a wiki article, neutrality is key. But alas. Human beings will do human things. So as much as I like the suggestion, its no more than a quaint discussion. It won't ever be practice. It will only get worse as people get more and more conditioned through living online. | |
May 17 at 5:56 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | Slightly related: xkcd 385 | |
May 17 at 3:23 | history | edited | Fe2O3 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add two words to accentuate difference in perception
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May 17 at 3:10 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @MartinJames You are fully entitled to live your life as you choose (within the limits of your "society", of course. Pay your taxes and stop at red lights.) The first thing that comes into my mind reading your comment here is the trite and over-used: "There's no 'I' in 'team'". Have a great day... | |
May 17 at 3:03 | comment | added | Martin James | Funny how 'respect' only seems to flow one way. Yes, I completely reject the idea of having my speech managed, and I accept that others may disagree. The big difference is that I am making MY views clear, but not trying to enforce them on anyone else. Also, isn't it odd that 'respect' is so often demanded one-way? | |
May 17 at 1:19 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @user4581301 Purely FYI: Just returned from an outing during which I've had the opportunity to mull-over our conversation here. I've just "re-phrased" my response to the other SO user, and have voluntarily removed my other recent comments that may have been seen as "controversial"... The difficulty, perhaps, is that the on-going "toxicity" of this environment leads to users "reading between the lines", through accustomed SO lenses, seeking reasons to be offended and/or feel abused. I am sorry if my earlier posts led to this "mode" being engaged... Let's leave the past behind & move forward! | |
May 17 at 1:10 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @MartinJames I may be wrong, but imo your response may be better served as a full "answer" (with more elaboration, should you choose to), rather than a "restricted" brief comment. This is up to you to decide, naturally... | |
May 16 at 23:42 | comment | added | user4581301 | Depersonalising works up to a point. After that, I think I said something like this elsewhere, you strip the poster-even though the poster should not matter here-of their humanity, and that can be as bad or worse. While I like the focus on the content, I find the stripping of posts of the salutations and thanks to be a bit too much for my tastes. Let people leave some of themselves in their writing. | |
May 16 at 23:36 | comment | added | user4581301 | That said, I agree with your proposition. We should be choosing the most kind way to impart information or express our opinions. I don't like where you started to go in the comments. | |
May 16 at 19:01 | comment | added | President James K. Polk | Depersonalizing is a good idea, I thank you for bringing it up. I'll try to remember this in my site commentary. | |
May 16 at 17:52 | comment | added | user4581301 | It is the "toxicity" of Stack Overflow that makes it work. You can trust the content because the bad content was driven off the site or downvoted so heavily that only a fellow idiot would miss the signal and attempt to use the content. That said, many of us could word things more carefully, and the folks that still flip out... <expletive deleted> them. You can't help everybody. | |
May 16 at 15:49 | comment | added | Martin James | No. I will not have my speech/text managed by others. If some user wishes to take offense, it's their problem. If SO tried to make it my problem, I would just ignore the attempt. If SO tried to enforce compelled speech, eg. by suspensions, fine - I don't care. | |
May 16 at 15:00 | comment | added | TylerH | @Fe2O3 Don't let it get you down. A policy (hard or soft) of this nature might seem like folly, but it's better if even a few people follow it. The post got my +1, at any rate. | |
May 16 at 9:39 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @Gimby I've recently realised why I'd like SO to halt its slide into decrepitude, "right itself" and begin to repair the recent years of neglect and abuse... I've been retired for some time now, and, in a way, have herein felt twinges of nostalgia for those "pointless meetings" where everyone would discuss ideas, both new-and-old... Thank you for your perspective! :-) Cheers! | |
May 16 at 8:47 | comment | added | Gimby | "and possibly retain more SO users" - ask yourself: what is an "SO user" ? Even people who do not have a user account are. Because the main usage of Stack Overflow is to be in the top X search results of your favorite search engine. Stack Overflow is a true weed like that, you are retained whether you want to or not. Even when you have your account deleted to stick it to the man - sorry. You're a member for the lifetime of the site. You are not going anywhere soldier. | |
May 16 at 7:43 | answer | added | starball | timeline score: 13 | |
May 16 at 7:26 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica It's certainly up to the individual to choose how to live. One can stand up and be counted, or one can simply shrug, "go with the flow" and forfeit any rights or "say" about where that flow takes one... No compulsion here... | |
May 16 at 7:17 | comment | added | StoryTeller - Unslander Monica | @Cuzy - "Most" can refer to anything from 50.01% to 99.99% of askers, where one's one perception will color how they understand "most". I think you can divine what I mean when I say "most" askers :( - There's no return on investment here as far as I'm concerned. | |
May 16 at 7:11 | comment | added | Fe2O3 | @StoryTeller-UnslanderMonica If it's true that "What goes up must come down", then it is conceivable that "What goes down must come up." I wasn't there, but I gather that the SO universe started out with a great deal of positivity and excitement. This 20 min song tells of one man's journey and ends with a proposal of how to make the world a better place. "The longest journey begins with taking the first step". Cheers! | |
May 16 at 7:02 | comment | added | StoryTeller - Unslander Monica | Most askers already come to SO with the assumption we are "toxic" and "elitist" because they heard it someplace else. I don't think you can affect perception when they are already predisposed against us. | |
May 16 at 6:41 | comment | added | Fe2O3 |
@VLAZ Re: "perceive as critique" True. Having raised two kids through adolescence, wisdom gained is that ANYTHING that can reduce the temperature in certain relationships is a "GOOD THING!!" :-) Re: seemingly unjustified "flagging"... See "adolescence" above. :-) One does what one can do. Cheers! :-)
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May 16 at 6:34 | comment | added | VLAZ | Very few people would care. A lot take almost any critique (or anything they perceive as critique) to be bad. I've had my comments asking for explanation flagged as unfriendly. I only know that because a mod commented for the poster to stop doing that. | |
May 16 at 6:30 | history | asked | Fe2O3 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |