Timeline for Python 3.x is just "Python". Any way to get rid of [python-3.x] tag?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
39 events
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Nov 5 at 4:59 | comment | added | wim |
@Jean-FrançoisFabre It looks like there's a good consensus here, as a moderator that is pretty familiar in [python] do you think you could make the tag synonym for [python-3.x] -> [python] ?
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Apr 25 at 17:00 | comment | added | wim | Jython is pretty much dead, and has it's own tag anyway so it's not particularly relevant to this discussion. RPython is not an implementation, it's a restricted subset used by PyPy, and PyPy supports 3.x for some time now. | |
Apr 25 at 16:47 | comment | added | snakecharmerb | It's possibly worth noting that there are still some 2.x implementations out there - Jython (and RPython?) spring to mind. | |
Apr 25 at 5:45 | history | edited | cottontail | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
phrasing
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Apr 25 at 3:24 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @pipe I think the renaming had more to do with how incredibly long it took to develop. | |
Apr 25 at 0:56 | answer | added | cottontail | timeline score: 9 | |
Apr 24 at 21:36 | comment | added | pipe | @KarlKnechtel So presumably if there is ever a python 4, it will be treated like perl 6 - everyone was just confused and eventually it was given a completely new name. | |
Apr 24 at 20:38 | comment | added | sytech |
Even if there is eventually a Python 4, there's no reason to believe that a new major version of Python would merit its own tag or such a tag would be useful. Because Python 2 and 3 are so different, it perhaps made sense then. Just because something happens to be major.minor.patch versioned doesn't mean a tag for the major version is needed or useful in any significant way. I believe the analogy with [html5] and [html] makes sense here.
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Apr 24 at 14:46 | comment | added | Justine Krejcha | @KarlKnechtel Yeah, knowing the history behind Python 2 and 3, I've always treated 3.x.y releases as if it was a x.y release of "Python 3" and the analogy seems apt enough. | |
Apr 23 at 22:23 | answer | added | Karl Knechtel | timeline score: 41 | |
Apr 23 at 22:01 | comment | added | Braiam | @Gimby the problem is that probably persons doing predictions, don't understand how the system works. As in, don't understand how the users interact with the system. People will add as many keywords as the system allows them. If you want them to not do it, you do not allow it. Or at least introduce enough resistance in the system to discourage them from doing it. The later would require a reworking of the tagging system. | |
Apr 23 at 18:31 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | Between that, and the newly established 1-year release cadence - at this point it can reasonably be argued that the 3 is a decoration with historical reasons behind it, and Python is effectively using calver rather than semver now. | |
Apr 23 at 18:30 | comment | added | wim |
@TylerH I think KarlKnechtel's analogy was fair. As one of the top users, from 500+ answers in [python-3.x] tag, I could count on one hand the number of times that the tag communicated anything useful that a [python] tag would not have done better. I expect most of these users may say similar
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Apr 23 at 18:30 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
I mean, one of the better-known Python authors from the previous era (Mark Lutz) seems to think everything after 3.4 was a mistake, and Guido hung up his BDFL hat over the addition of the := operator in 3.8, yet 3.13 is under active development with no issues. Changes like removing the GIL and building new infrastructure for JIT bytecode optimization are not seen as reasons to bump the major version number. Meanwhile there is an established policy now whereby things can be deprecated and scheduled for removal after a certain number of minor versions.
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Apr 23 at 18:24 | comment | added | TylerH | @KarlKnechtel That's not really the same scenario. HTML5 did away with HTML versions. Python 3 is still version 3.x and still uses major.minor.patch versioning, and plans to continue doing so in the future. The merger of HTML5 to HTML was not because "everyone is using HTML5 now", it's because HTML5 really just does not exist anymore; it's just HTML. Given the structure of the orgs behind Python and HTML, it's much more likely that HTML will continue down this path than it is that Python will never see a version 4.x. That will likely come when Guido fans get old/retire/die, if not sooner. | |
Apr 23 at 17:14 | answer | added | Joshua | timeline score: -1 | |
Apr 23 at 16:12 | comment | added | wim | @bad_coder Did you watch the one linked in the question? It is not (only) Guido's opinion, he also mentions that the core development team feel the same way. | |
Apr 23 at 13:58 | comment | added | bad_coder | I watched a couple of the latest Guido interviews and I'm not so sure we'll keep with Python3 indefinitely - the BDFL has been wrong before. But Guido does seem to keep well informed so there's no Python4 on the short-term horizon. As for the synonym request I'd also been thinking about it but the use case in @TylerH comment is a strong counter-example. | |
Apr 23 at 11:25 | comment | added | Gimby | "Martijn's 2018 prediction that python-3.x usage would just fade unfortunately did not happen" - just like old close voting labels. If you expect people to adopt new labels by dropping the old ones, you don't know people. Persistent buggers. | |
Apr 23 at 11:21 | comment | added | user5349916 | @Mr.Irrelevant In case you are suggesting reviewed edits, these are hardly "for free". It takes three people (one editor plus two reviewers) to make them. Please do not spam the review queue for such edits. | |
Apr 23 at 11:18 | comment | added | Bending Rodriguez | Just retag to python, bam 2 reputation for free | |
Apr 23 at 8:48 | comment | added | user5349916 | This has come up a while ago on Should we add the [python] tag to all [python-*] questions?. Back then there was already huge support for merging various Python tags, though slightly different than proposed here. | |
Apr 23 at 7:34 | comment | added | Erik A | A factor in this discussion is the outdated answers project, which wanted to tackle this problem with a version tag on version-specific answers, and specifically named Python 2 vs Python 3 as an example. Unfortunately, it appears this project is abandoned. | |
Apr 23 at 5:50 | comment | added | Jesse Wyatt | There's no reason there couldn't eventually be a Python 4.x at some point in the future, this seems like it risks confusion (however unlikely), for little to no real benefit. IMO, if anything the unqualified python tag is the problematic one. | |
Apr 23 at 4:16 | history | became hot meta post | |||
Apr 22 at 22:00 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @PM2Ring The [python] tag should be added to those normally, because people with generic Python expertise will typically be qualified to answer or curate them. Questions should only do this "library tag only, no language tag" thing when the library is commonly used from more than one language and the question is about the actual idioms of the library itself. | |
Apr 22 at 21:56 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel |
"If v2.x askers have to specify a version, why not version 3 askers?" - Someone with subject matter expertise could not ask this sincerely, IMO. It's comparable to asking why [html5] is synonymized to [html] already.
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Apr 22 at 21:53 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @TylerH it's about one a month on average, and they're mostly garbage "work order" questions ("but please keep in mind I need this to work on 2.x too", with zero thought given as to why this would actually cause a problem) and duplicates. | |
Apr 22 at 19:57 | history | edited | wim | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 20 characters in body
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Apr 22 at 19:52 | comment | added | wim | Wanting cross-compatible code is rare these days, but if you need that it must be mentioned in the prose - it can not be communicated using only tags due to poor signal/noise ratio here. This is not a convincing use-case for the continued existence of a [python-3.x] tag. | |
Apr 22 at 19:36 | comment | added | PM 2Ring | Also, as I said a couple of years ago on this related question, there are numerous Python-related questions that don't have any Python tag. Eg, pandas, django, numpy | |
Apr 22 at 19:06 | comment | added | TylerH | @ThomA Well, FWIW, the only question w/ both that was asked this year is apparently wanting code that runs in both environments. But I think such questions are a good example of why version tags for both 2.x and 3.x are warranted. Just having one for 2.x would not indicate to readers that the question is about both versions, leading to a situation where people who are experts on interop/conversion between the two versions to potentially miss the question. | |
Apr 22 at 18:57 | comment | added | wim | @TylerH For the reason stated in the first paragraph of this post. Python 3.x is just "Python", it does not add any useful context. Python 2.x does add useful context. | |
Apr 22 at 18:55 | comment | added | Thom A | And some people just go ahead and tag both versions. | |
Apr 22 at 18:54 | comment | added | TylerH | We can't really expect two sets of rules based on a version number. If v2.x askers have to specify a version, why not version 3 askers? This is really something that we need tag hierarchies/parent tags for, honestly. | |
Apr 22 at 18:53 | comment | added | wim | @TylerH Asking about Python 2.x is fine. In that case you add python and python-2.x. What's the problem? | |
Apr 22 at 18:52 | comment | added | TylerH | It looks like people are still occasionally asking about Python 2.x, so I don't think this is appropriate. Unless you think we should flip-flop and only require version tags for 2.x questions? That would probably be manageable | |
Apr 22 at 18:51 | comment | added | TylerH | "Is there a way on the platform to synonymize python-3.x -> python for new questions only?" No, tags are always site-wide; can't do subsets of questions, unfortunately. | |
Apr 22 at 18:46 | history | asked | wim | CC BY-SA 4.0 |