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May 6, 2023 at 13:18 history edited Peter Mortensen CC BY-SA 4.0
Introduced abbr. "NLN" (used in an answer).
May 6, 2023 at 11:14 comment added mklement0 @gre_gor, while I do think that 'Follow' is an advanced function that inexperienced users are unlikely to use, I have since realized that discussing it is incidental to this suggestion, because you shouldn't have to follow a post just to receive a targeted notification. The proposed new flag would indeed primarily benefit experienced who know how to flag, probably more answers than askers, given that many frequent contributors answer more questions than they ask. Experienced users are precisely the target audience. By contrast, I can see why the thank-you experiment failed.
May 6, 2023 at 10:47 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 6, 2023 at 10:46 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, so it sounds like this proposal will do what you're looking for - removal of the original comment and no pinging noise - and the problem may be just one or making users aware of the new flag. As for my personal MO: I eventually flag the original comment for removal, but only after a shared understanding has been reached or I have inferred from the commenter's presence on the site that they've seen the ping and haven't responded (or have responded indirectly, by accepting the answer).
May 6, 2023 at 5:40 comment added user5349916 @RyanM Out of interest, how many (ballpark figure would suffice) “I addressed your comment” comments are actually accompanied with flagging the addressed comment? Usually, I am the one cleaning up after seeing an update (provided the comments were actually addressed). This would suggest many post owners just ping, they don’t flag for removal in the first place. Am I just exposed only to a niche or is this usually the case?
May 6, 2023 at 5:17 comment added gre_gor You claim the "follow" function is too advanced/unknown, but then propose a more complex feature that relies on users that aren't even interested in moderation tools. That's not going to work at all. Do you remember the "thanks" reacts, that were supposed to reduce the "thanks" comments? They didn't work. It only added more noise.
May 6, 2023 at 1:42 comment added mklement0 @RyanM, as proposed, you, as a moderator, can treat this as just like any other NLN flag. Nothing else to figure out. If the commenter believes their comment has not been addressed, they now know what the situation is - and are free to post a new comment. (Again, I don't think the notification aspect needs mod approval).
May 6, 2023 at 0:27 comment added Ryan M Mod IMHO, the largest issue with this proposal is that it's a mod flag. I imagine the mod reaction to this flag being "uh...maybe that's NLN now...? I don't really want to read through this and try to figure out if it was actually addressed, because that's really for the comment author to judge." If something like this were to be implemented, I'd probably structure it as a notification to the commenter that the issue has been addressed, and let them decide whether to remove the comment, reply further, or ignore it entirely. And then we could safely consider all "please see edit" comments NLN.
May 6, 2023 at 0:25 answer added Karl Knechtel timeline score: 6
May 6, 2023 at 0:08 answer added Ryan MMod timeline score: 4
May 5, 2023 at 23:45 comment added mklement0 @SecurityHound: what Ryan M said. To be explicit: the proposal involves a canned message whose content the flagger doesn't control.
May 5, 2023 at 23:42 comment added Ryan M Mod @SecurityHound I don't see the relevance of abusive comments like that to this proposal. The users can already ping people with abusive comments. This is giving them a way to do it in which they cannot insert abuse.
May 5, 2023 at 23:39 comment added Security Hound @mklement0 - They have abused it. I have been called absolutely horrible things in a comment. We don’t need additional ways to ping users.
May 5, 2023 at 22:02 answer added Kevin B timeline score: 3
May 5, 2023 at 21:50 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2023 at 21:43 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2023 at 21:24 comment added mklement0 @TylerH, I should never have engaged the 'Follow' debate: it is irrelevant. It is unrelated to receiving the targeted notifications that this suggestion is about. No one should have to 'Follow' a post if all they care about is reliably getting notified of targeted replies, which overzealous flaggers can currently prevent.
May 5, 2023 at 21:16 comment added TylerH @mklement0 Not paying attention to site features does not make them advanced or esoteric. It makes users lazy. I don't particularly want to cater to lazy users. Not when there are far more important things SO devs could be working on.
May 5, 2023 at 21:15 comment added mklement0 @TylerH, lots of things are right there - that doesn't mean that users pay attention to them or learn how to use them, especially if they're not necessary for using the site. But the larger point is that (a) users shouldn't have to take extra action to be notified of relevant updates directly targeted to them and (b) being notified on every edit could still result in a flurry of unwanted notifications.
May 5, 2023 at 21:14 answer added Elikill58 timeline score: -7
May 5, 2023 at 21:05 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, as noted in my comment on your answer: if that is a concern (one that I don't share), the notification part could be made contingent on moderator approval too, not just the comment-removal part (as is already the case).
May 5, 2023 at 21:02 comment added TylerH "There is the option to 'Follow' a post, BUT: It is an advanced feature inexperienced users are unlikely to be aware of." The follow option is not advanced at all, and it's right there in front of users at the bottom of every post they read. Hovering over it or clicking on it tells you exactly what it does: notifies you of updates. I'm not convinced we need this as an improvement here. Maybe the "Follow" feature should be changed to only follow edits to the post rather than all the other actions it follows, instead.
May 5, 2023 at 20:55 comment added user5349916 @mklement0 An @-ping is something visible that gets seen and potentially acted on by the entire community. An invisible ping is an entirely different beast.
May 5, 2023 at 20:49 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2023 at 20:44 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, I exercising my agency to opt out of this conversation, because to me it is a red herring: Via @-pinging, users already have the power to unilaterally notify others - this proposal doesn't introduce anything new. If you have a problem with unilateral notifications in general, this would be an entirely separate debate that isn't worth having here.
May 5, 2023 at 20:38 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2023 at 20:36 comment added user5349916 @mklement0 I called the assertion that the feature was discussed "strange". The actual arguments I would call patronising. They appear to deny the very agency of people to decide whether they want to be informed. In essence, I said "I have agency to decide when to follow and would like that to be respected".
May 5, 2023 at 20:26 history edited mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2023 at 20:26 answer added user5349916 timeline score: 12
May 5, 2023 at 20:22 comment added mklement0 @SecurityHound, what prevents post authors from abusing @-targeted comments? See also the previous comment.
May 5, 2023 at 20:20 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi: I didn't shut anything down: I pointed out that instead of engaging with the arguments that were already part of the post with respect to the 'Follow' feature, you in essence said "but there's the 'Follow' feature". When I pointed out the non-engagement with the arguments, your idea of then engaging them appeared to be to call them "strange" - duly noted. But let's not get side-tracked: the issue is that users already have the power to send notifications, via @-mentions - this proposal would simply streamline the process and make it less noisy.
May 5, 2023 at 20:14 comment added Security Hound What prevents the author of the question from abusing the flag and unnecessarily pinging other users?
May 5, 2023 at 20:13 comment added user5349916 @mklement0 You've just shut down my arguments with a blanket "it's already been discussed". How should one engage with that? oO
May 5, 2023 at 20:13 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, they are arguments: engage with them or not - your choice. Don't post comments that pretend they haven't been made.
May 5, 2023 at 20:12 comment added user5349916 @mklement0 "discussed" is a strange term for only alleging ignorance and forgetfulness.
May 5, 2023 at 20:08 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, also, the problems with the 'Follow' feature are already discussed in the proposal.
May 5, 2023 at 20:08 comment added mklement0 @MisterMiyagi, the decision is already up to the post owner: They can always post an @-targeted comment - and this proposal would eliminate that noise, especially if the only content of the comment would be "see my update".
May 5, 2023 at 20:06 comment added user5349916 Why is the decision to notify up to post owner? If a commenter wants to be informed about changes, they can follow the post. If they don't want to be informed, well, why encourage someone else to prod them?
May 5, 2023 at 20:04 comment added Ryan M Mod This would also help with updates that address multiple people's comments. As you can only @mention one person per comment, askers often end up posting multiple "@person please see update" comments in this scenario.
May 5, 2023 at 19:54 history asked mklement0 CC BY-SA 4.0