Timeline for (UPDATED 2023 May 8) - Changes to the Census badge
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
75 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Jun 24, 2023 at 21:48 | answer | added | starball | timeline score: 3 | |
May 17, 2023 at 19:06 | history | edited | zcoop98 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Add a clarification to the "Update 2" text to avoid misinterpretation of "The census badges have been restored"
|
May 11, 2023 at 5:33 | answer | added | Wenfang Du | timeline score: 6 | |
May 10, 2023 at 19:23 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod |
edited tags
|
|
May 10, 2023 at 7:57 | comment | added | KargWare |
Would it be an option to ask the user / the participant during the survey, if you want to get the Census badge. And the default is maybe "No, I don't want it, because of privacy" and add an "Yes, I am aware of the privacy concerns".
|
|
May 10, 2023 at 4:53 | answer | added | Nick | timeline score: 10 | |
May 10, 2023 at 0:07 | comment | added | Christian Gollhardt | Do you want to create record in losses of community members per minute? Seems you are on the right track. | |
May 9, 2023 at 23:01 | comment | added | Kobi | @Makyen - I mentioned one of these privacy concerns here: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/361780/7586 - at the time the badge was awarded immediately, it wasn't even batched. | |
May 9, 2023 at 21:45 | comment | added | gparyani | @Philippe Did you manage to get an answer to my question, about how it will work if the user opted to earn the badge on different sites in different years? | |
May 9, 2023 at 11:26 | comment | added | Dan Mašek | @Lundin Yeah, that would have been my preferred style, but since someone already edited the dates in the question body, I followed the style they used (while a bit awkward, it solves the ambiguity issue, and I'm not really looking for an edit war). | |
May 9, 2023 at 11:17 | comment | added | Lundin | @DanMašek YYYY-MM-DD is also pretty universal and unambiguous. | |
May 9, 2023 at 10:24 | comment | added | Dan Mašek | OK, once more: Could you please write dates in a manner that will be unambiguous to the majority of the world? Perhaps integrate it into your process of making announcements, so people don't have to fix it for you all the time? | |
May 9, 2023 at 10:21 | history | edited | Dan Mašek | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Made the title date unambiguous and consistent with the style used in the question body.
|
May 9, 2023 at 9:50 | comment | added | Lundin | Btw... I'm pretty sure that some of the previous surveys many years back had the option to opt out of the connection to your SO account, in which case you didn't get the badge. | |
May 9, 2023 at 8:57 | comment | added | walen | Thanks for updating the title when you updated the post. I would've missed the update if it wasn't for that. (Also this (updating titles) is something I asked of Featured posts years ago, nice to see it's being done now.) | |
May 9, 2023 at 8:26 | answer | added | JustSightseeing | timeline score: 6 | |
May 9, 2023 at 7:22 | comment | added | Free Palestine | @Zach.. previous Census badges are restored.. Just to confirm are we not getting Census badge this year? | |
May 9, 2023 at 0:31 | history | edited | cottontail | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
minor touch-up
|
May 8, 2023 at 22:57 | answer | added | zcoop98 | timeline score: 9 | |
May 8, 2023 at 22:29 | answer | added | Dmitriy Popov | timeline score: 8 | |
May 8, 2023 at 22:17 | comment | added | Dmitriy Popov | The badge is much more important for me as some mythical "privacy risk". Badges count shows your activity as a community member which is important. You should just add an option "I want/don't want to receive a Census badge" as the last question of the survey. Very disappointed! | |
May 8, 2023 at 22:01 | comment | added | Arty.Simon | I'm glad to see the census badge back for members who previously earned it. What I noticed is that it didn't update the silver badge count on my profile. Is this the proper behavior? | |
May 8, 2023 at 21:55 | comment | added | Rob | @Philippe, in the announcement is written: "... badges have been restored (and the badge retired, so it shows up in the "retired" section)...", but on other sites it's not retired (stats.stackexchange.com/help/badges) or viewable: stats.stackexchange.com/help/badges/1297/census | |
May 8, 2023 at 21:31 | history | edited | PhilippeStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 319 characters in body
|
May 8, 2023 at 19:10 | answer | added | cottontail | timeline score: 18 | |
May 6, 2023 at 5:40 | comment | added | Philippe StaffMod | @gparyani - Great question. I'm going to have to defer, however, because that's a question for the folks doing the implementation, and they're done for the weekend. I'll ask on Monday though. :) | |
May 6, 2023 at 3:40 | comment | added | gparyani | @Philippe How will your update work regarding users who opted to earn the badge on different sites? From 2019-2022, users could opt to earn the badge on their (technical) site of choice, so some users may have credited the badge to different sites' profiles. Will they be being issued the badge once on each site they earned it, or will it only be issued once on Stack Overflow? | |
May 6, 2023 at 1:00 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Cerbrus Given that archives exist of webpages, it would be fairly easy to determine for which year the user received the Census badge by the difference between one year and the next. While there's an increase in difficulty in determining the year the badge was awarded when future badges have the same timestamp as all other Census badges, it's not that much more difficult vs having all Census badges for a year be awarded as a block in random order after the close of the survey. Any way you cut it, it still gives the information that that user provided a response to the survey that year. | |
May 6, 2023 at 0:03 | history | edited | khelwood | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
I think I misinterpreted the relationship of "however" in my previous edit
|
May 5, 2023 at 23:40 | comment | added | starball | "Beginning with the 2023 Developer Survey, we will no longer give the Census badge to those who complete the entire Developer Survey." - so is the badge retired now? and is there any significance to the word "entire"? I read that and thought you were going to give some exception based on that word. | |
May 5, 2023 at 23:28 | history | edited | SlateStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
properly accrediting Machavity for the proposal
|
May 5, 2023 at 22:55 | answer | added | Travis J | timeline score: 25 | |
May 5, 2023 at 22:25 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Philippe "All Census badges will have the same issue date." --> So why not allow users to still get that badge, if they don't have it yet? Just award them with that one specific "issue" date, regardless of when they earn it, be it this year, or 10 years from now :D | |
May 5, 2023 at 21:43 | history | edited | khelwood | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
minor punctuation edit
|
May 5, 2023 at 21:23 | history | edited | CatijaStaff | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Format improvement
|
May 5, 2023 at 21:18 | history | edited | PhilippeStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Updated with response
|
May 5, 2023 at 19:10 | comment | added | Andreas condemns Israel | @JohnMontgomery Because users that opted in to the badge, didn’t consider that there’s a potential privacy breach. | |
May 5, 2023 at 19:07 | comment | added | John Montgomery | Can you address the fact that people already had the option to opt out of receiving the badge, and why you feel this change was still necessary despite that? | |
May 5, 2023 at 18:48 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @Makyen Yes, it's always additional information. The question is if it's enough to actually do something with it. If I told you which surveys I took, (say 2-3 I think) what do you really know about me? Not much I guess. | |
May 5, 2023 at 17:40 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Samathingamajig Even without the timestamp within the year, the Census badge does give additional information, which can help with correlation between users and responses. That the user had a Census badge that year (page archives could indicate years, even if truly no time info) indicates they definitely gave a response and their response is in the dataset. That's not even limited to a single year, as if you know a user has multiple Census badges, you know which years they definitely responded to the survey, and, depending on the questions, some of their responses will be invariant. | |
May 5, 2023 at 17:39 | answer | added | Erik A | timeline score: 72 | |
May 5, 2023 at 14:17 | comment | added | Samathingamajig | The only privacy risk I could see is the timestamp, so either don't release that information in the dataset or award the badge in bulk/set the award date in the past on the same date for everyone. | |
May 5, 2023 at 13:38 | comment | added | Alejandro | If Stack Overflow as a whole care about privacy, a better first step is to stop selling our private data ("sharing with third parties" as the lawyers love to say) in the first place, then we can speaki about badges and others. | |
May 5, 2023 at 13:16 | comment | added | OpenAI was the last straw | Since SO apparently hasn't been handling the results appropriately, I guess I'm not going to participate anymore. Taking away the badges won't make the results any more secure. | |
May 5, 2023 at 11:32 | comment | added | Stuck at 1337 | @gparyani Uh, isn't that kind of what the post says? | |
May 5, 2023 at 8:27 | history | edited | Adriaan | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Changed date to ISO and wrote out the month to make it not cofusable with 5 April, which is what non-Americans would understand
|
May 5, 2023 at 7:06 | comment | added | gparyani | A simple "We have become aware of a significant privacy risk caused by awarding these badges. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the risk, we are unable to share additional details at this time." would have greatly lessened the negative reception of this post. | |
May 5, 2023 at 3:06 | answer | added | holydragon | timeline score: 36 | |
May 5, 2023 at 2:12 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @ThomA "It's like being upset about the colour a wall is painted and instead of repainting the wall you took a sledgehammer to it and destroyed the wall." Given Machavity's answer, I feel like a better analogy might be the other way around: the wall (publicly accessible, supposedly anonymized but in-principle-reversible dataset) is there and problematic; rather than remove it, they propose repainting. | |
May 5, 2023 at 2:07 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | @KevinB "good riddance. the survey hardly serves the community anyway." I agree. However, every attempt I make on Meta to point out the potential political agendas behind such surveys (along with changes to the wording of all the site template stuff that can't be edited by the community) seems to get downvoted. | |
May 5, 2023 at 1:54 | comment | added | InSync | Is privacy so much of a concern that Census is no longer displayed anywhere, not even on the Retired Badges section? | |
May 4, 2023 at 21:01 | comment | added | TylerH | @Philippe If you added a detailed PoC of that pathway to the announcement here, you'd probably find that everyone who is antagonizing the decision would either stop antagonizing it and start supporting it, or, assuming some theoretical flaw in the PoC, point out said flaw as far more useful justification for why it shouldn't actually be removed. | |
May 4, 2023 at 19:22 | comment | added | NathanOliver | If you are getting rid of this badge because of privacy issues, why do we still have Not a robot? That gives you data that so and so was at place X on day Y. | |
May 4, 2023 at 17:50 | comment | added | Thom A | "as the text says, it would be trivial to work backward into the process from there." This sounds like the wrong solution has been taken in my opinion then @Philippe . If finding out the user was is so trivial then the problem is more likely the underlying design and data stored, not the badge itself. Instead of addressing the root problem you've removed the entire feature. It's like being upset about the colour a wall is painted and instead of repainting the wall you took a sledgehammer to it and destroyed the wall. Smells like an XY Problem. | |
May 4, 2023 at 17:17 | comment | added | rgettman | Is the privacy concern over some kind of ability to match a user to a set of survey answers by using the timestamps of the answers and the timestamps of the Census badge? If so, then change all the badge timestamps to the time that the survey closed in each year, and only aware the badges for future surveys when they close, using the same timestamp for each year. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:48 | answer | added | MachavityMod | timeline score: 118 | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:47 | comment | added | Ryan M Mod | @Cerbrus The individual responses are available in de-identified form in the full survey dataset. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:44 | comment | added | vandench | Skipping over the obvious part where the badge doesn't leak any answers you gave, we already had the choice of whether or not to accept the badge. If people were really concerned about the privacy concerns, they could just reject the badge. Why take away that option from the rest of us? | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:41 | comment | added | Cerbrus | And even if a user could be tied to a survey response, individual survey responses aren't publicly accessible... The only potential for abuse I see here, is for people that already have access to more detailed survey information (SE employees)... | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:39 | comment | added | 0Valt | Can we please be clearer than "unnecessary element of privacy risk"? If that is a risk of a PII leak, then it's one thing, we (at least I) can understand that. If it's a vague "privacy risk", then I fully agree with the reaction this announcement is getting right now. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:37 | comment | added | Cerbrus | @Philippe so, did the badge allow for some kind of insight into a survey respondents' identity? And even then, survey answers are securely stored, aren't they? | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:30 | history | edited | Ryan MMod |
edited tags
|
|
May 4, 2023 at 16:22 | comment | added | Philippe StaffMod | I'll weigh in here as well - I personally vetted the experience that we're talking about here, because I was prepared to shut down this situation and refuse to remove the badge. I was convinced through the demo that I was given that there was a significant enough chance to violate the privacy of our users that I would not feel comfortable leaving it as is. So while it was not an idea I originated, I did vet the problem and agreed that it needed fixing. I"m sorry that I can't give more details: as the text says, it would be trivial to work backward into the process from there. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:17 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 90 | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:15 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | IIRC, there's at least one or more questions in prior years on MSO or MSE which discuss situations where the Census badge could be used, in combination with data from the survey, to identify individual users and their responses. I'd suggest looking for those questions and linking them here. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:12 | comment | added | Anon Coward | "it was determined that assigning the Census badge added an unnecessary element of privacy risk" By who? Someone that doesn't understand what these words mean? | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:11 | answer | added | Thom A | timeline score: 40 | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:08 | comment | added | toolic | Description of the Census badge on MSE | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:07 | comment | added | Kevin B | good riddance. the survey hardly serves the community anyway. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:07 | comment | added | Cerbrus | "Additionally, as of 5/4/23, we have removed previously awarded Census badges." I'm also a little disappointed that this was just removed, without community input. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:04 | answer | added | Cerbrus | timeline score: 77 | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:03 | comment | added | Thom A | The badge had been awarded about 250k times; I'm not sure how many times the survey has been completed, but even if it was 10 times, that means that an average of 25k users respond each year; identifying a user from who got the badge would be a verydifficult/impossible task. Honestly, this feels like misuse of using "privacy" as an excuse to perform this action. | |
May 4, 2023 at 16:02 | comment | added | Andreas condemns Israel | Privacy matters a whole lot to me, but I had to give this post a downvote. Any chance you can explain how this poses a privacy breach risk? | |
May 4, 2023 at 15:59 | comment | added | Thom A | I'm honestly a little confused, at least from the perspective of a site like Stack Overflow, how the awarding of a badge could be a "risk" to the user's privacy. I can understand this stance for smaller communities, as if you have a census where only 100 people respond, you may well be able to do some work to identify the user, but on a site like Stack Overflow there is a much larger volume making the ability to identify an individual far harder. | |
May 4, 2023 at 15:56 | history | asked | ZachStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |