Timeline for Rule proposal: comments asking for accepts and votes shall no longer be allowed
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
112 events
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Jun 13, 2022 at 20:00 | answer | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | timeline score: -2 | |
May 24, 2022 at 20:35 | comment | added | Ryan M Mod | I've removed all mentions of various political philosophies/philosophers, as the conversation about them had spiraled wildly off-topic. I've striven to preserve everyone's points about the site and its moderation, minus the comparisons to political theories and related history lessons. | |
May 24, 2022 at 19:00 | answer | added | Rob Raymond | timeline score: 3 | |
S May 21, 2022 at 15:26 | history | notice removed | CommunityBot | ||
S May 21, 2022 at 15:26 | history | unlocked | CommunityBot | ||
May 21, 2022 at 14:11 | answer | added | Tyler V | timeline score: 9 | |
May 20, 2022 at 20:35 | answer | added | John H | timeline score: 8 | |
May 20, 2022 at 16:43 | answer | added | Sinc | timeline score: 8 | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:26 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | Since this is going downhill fast (on something we've already decided not to do) I've comment locked this for now. If you want to debate the usefulness of certain comments, go start another post. | |
S May 20, 2022 at 15:22 | history | notice added | MachavityMod | Comments only | |
S May 20, 2022 at 15:22 | history | locked | MachavityMod | ||
May 20, 2022 at 15:13 | comment | added | Nick is tired | @EdMorton I didn't think anyone wrote answers to help individuals, we write answers to help everyone who will visit. Who cares about whether or not the asker accepts or upvotes when there are other users that'll get helped by the answer. A token thanks is just a token, it doesn't mean anything | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:07 | comment | added | Nick is tired | There's nothing to "correct", a lack of acceptance or voting isn't an issue that needs "fixed". | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:05 | comment | added | Ed Morton | @TheFungusAmongUs Not sure what wording you'd prefer I use to help people correct their previous posts. To me "and fix that" just seems like exactly the correct phrasing for what they should do. But anyway, we're nit-picking here, the point is my comment isn't begging for votes or doing anything negative - just guiding the user to the page that explains what to do if/when they get answers. | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:03 | comment | added | Nick is tired | @TheFungusAmongUs Yes, but all comments are still deletable. By saying "We won't tell you off, but the comments will be deleted if flagged" they're effectively saying that doing it is acceptable. So it's not a rule, it's a recommendation. | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:02 | comment | added | TheFungusAmongUs | @NickstandswithUkraine Isn't the status-declined only to say that they wouldn't be warned? The comment would still be deleted, as it was in the past. | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:01 | comment | added | TheFungusAmongUs | @EdMorton While I disagree with the rule, that first comment, "and then fix that", is a bit condescending | |
May 20, 2022 at 15:00 | comment | added | Nick is tired | @EdMorton IMO it's the same thing, and your comments complaining now are meaningless: "If we're not allowed to direct people to the someone answers page then why does it exist?" - You are, it's status declined, the mod note at the top says they're not moving forward with it. "This new rule" isn't a new rule. | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:59 | comment | added | Ed Morton | @NickstandswithUkraine no, I didn't. The apology in the question is for not telling us their decree, not for coming up with it in the first place and not for the extremely negative comments I (and I expect others) received about "shaming" other posters and "begging" for points to go along with my suspension. | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:57 | history | edited | khelwood | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
fix typo
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May 20, 2022 at 14:57 | comment | added | Nick is tired | @EdMorton You've already received an apology for that at the top of the post. | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:50 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | @NickstandswithUkraine Blatant vote begging has never been acceptable in any form. This was mainly aimed at the folks who were leaving lots of comments trying to be nicer in reminding folks to vote/accept. We were wanting to warn those folks off. That's what we're not moving forward with | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:46 | comment | added | Nick is tired | Does the status-declined only refer to comments which explain how to accept/upvote or all relevant comments? Comments explicitly asking for acceptance/upvoting should 100% be suspendable for (with repeat offenses) | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:40 | history | edited | MachavityMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Rule will not go forward as-is
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May 20, 2022 at 14:06 | comment | added | Thom A | Thanks, @Machavity . That does alleviate some of my concerns here. | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:05 | comment | added | Sylvester is on codidact.com | @CodyGray Thinking of this comment, do you (the moderators) have any data regarding the negative emotional effects of these comments, or the fact that users are more likely to take them as negative than not? Even if that data is just your experience. I'm genuinely curious, and I'd really appreciate a response. | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:05 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | @Larnu To my knowledge we've stopped for now. The comments have always been removable and continue to be removed. We just want to be able to warn users about overusing these comments. I'm sorry if that's not been clear | |
May 20, 2022 at 14:03 | comment | added | Thom A | "It does not contain any new rules by itself." I disagree with this, removing the permission to do something is in itself a change of the rules. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:59 | comment | added | Thom A | So what you're saying is, is the mods are enforcing this rule, while discussing it's proposal, @Machavity ? Feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse to me. If this isn't a proposal, and is an enforcement, don't word it like a proposal; tell us you're now enforcing it. (Of course, I doubt that changes any of the answers below, and the rule change would be poorly received.) | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:57 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | @Larnu The full chain there is a moderator removed outdated guidance that such comments are acceptable. The mistake moderators made (which, again, I admitted) was we started enforcing a heretofore unstated rule that such comments are not acceptable. The edit there makes the post neutral to this discussion. It does not contain any new rules by itself. Reverting the edit doesn't change any of that. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:34 | comment | added | Thom A | My point is, if you want this to be a proposal, don't enforce the change first, and then propose; undo your mistakes (which you can easily do), and then make the proposal. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:25 | comment | added | Thom A | Then the edit should be rolled back , @Machavity . I, honestly, thought that your comments in the question were on regards to that mods had previously stated in conversation (to users) a stance that differed to the LL inked answer; Cody has certainly told me something in the past that contradicted the answer and when I sked them to address that, by means of an edit and announcement, neither occured and no response was given. I suspected that many others had similar experiences. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:20 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | @Larnu Which is what I admitted in the question itself. We got the cart before the horse here. This is your opportunity to offer feedback like the rest of the community. I don't expect anyone to just accept this and a hard and fast declaration of any rule without discussion would have even more poorly received. But I felt (as did other mods) that we needed to slog through this process to craft policy with the community. Nobody expected this to be easy or popular. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:14 | comment | added | PM 2Ring | Maybe it's just me, but I detect more than a little irony in saying "It's not possible for you to educate the newbies without making them feel pressured. And if you persist, we'll suspend you". | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:13 | comment | added | PM 2Ring | Banning comments linking to Help or relevant meta pages is over the top, IMHO. | |
May 20, 2022 at 13:02 | comment | added | BhaveshDiwan | I unequivocally oppose this. Absolutely horrendous idea... When people at Youtube can ask for Subscription towards their hard work; I see nothing wrong in asking for Accept or Upvote for the effort they put in answering to a question.... And what about noobs who benefitted from the answer but doesn't know how they can return the favour, although they want to!? | |
May 20, 2022 at 12:06 | comment | added | Thom A | I just noticed that the linked answer had already been changed before this question was posted. This means that this topic isn't a proposal any more, it's an announcement and the mods are expecting the community to just accept the mods new rules, even when it's been terribly received. We're used to Stack Overflow doing this, but not the mods. I don't agree with the linked answer being amended until after the proposal is actually applied; this sets a terribly precedence of do now, ask later. | |
May 20, 2022 at 10:16 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray A little bit of pressure (or encouragement, as these types of comments are frequently very polite, and in fact the example you all deleted was extremely polite, friendly, and not demanding) isn't harm anyway. Automatic reminders are intended to pressure users, too, and you support those. So clearly you don't believe it's harm, either. And "noise" clearly doesn't constitute an egregious harm. Which leaves only one potential "harm" I can think of: moderator time. Seems to me you're only thinking about yourselves, rather than the whole site. You're not being very neutral about this. | |
May 20, 2022 at 10:10 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray "My position is simply that I'm prepared to risk losing a potentially useful signal in light of the fact that far more significant harms arise out of how some users are attempting to bring it about." It's not potentially useful. It is useful. It generates correct, beneficial action in a large number of cases. If users were ignoring it wholesale, you'd have no basis for claiming they feel pressured. I don't care what your preferences are. I care about whether this policy aligns with the site's core values, and it doesn't. That isn't a matter of my preferences, either. | |
May 20, 2022 at 9:38 | comment | added | iBug | I also don't like how you mods have already edited the previous rule to remove that part a while ago, and only asked this "proposal" days after. This doesn't smell like an "asking", but more an announcement. | |
May 20, 2022 at 8:37 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray The insistence on equating any mention of proper acceptance and voting usage is equivalent to bullying is both invalid and the source of the problem here. As for "no inherent good," I'm honestly flabbergasted that a moderator doesn't recognize that marking an answer as the one that solved the asker's problem is helpful to future readers for understanding which answers are most useful. It is quite literally an act of curation; that's why it has rewards associated with it. You're literally denying the value of curating content. The same applies to voting. | |
May 20, 2022 at 8:25 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray It seems to me that the problem with your thinking is ignoring the fact that an action can be mutually beneficial. A person can simultaneous do a good thing and also benefit from it themselves. There is nothing bad about that; in fact, it is an incredible good when all parties are better off. As I said before, if a person is getting new users to use the site appropriately and they get some reputation out of that, there's nothing wrong with that. This policy forbids that, and that's a huge negative for everyone. | |
May 20, 2022 at 7:36 | history | edited | NoDataDumpNoContribution | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
brief change in title to make even more clear that it's a proposal
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May 20, 2022 at 7:28 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray No one can completely neutrally educate anyone on any topic. That doesn't mean we can't do good things. You may as well shut down the site if you really believe that should be the standard. You would have to ban answering itself if you won't accept anything less. As for "abused," I have a hard time believing that most of the instances you're claiming to be abuse really are because your standards are so out of whack. | |
May 20, 2022 at 7:15 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray So instead of going to the absurd extreme of banning linking a help page, figure out what constitutes bad pressure and forbid that. I agree that attaching any kind of threat or incentive to the vote or accept would be a good thing to ban. I'm not sure what else is a problem. Displaying a pattern of doing it all the time rather than on a situational basis could also be something you would look for. And if something is border line? Probably best to leave it alone. Getting users to vote and accept is vital to the site. I'd rather err on the side of them getting informed. | |
May 20, 2022 at 7:14 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray Also, this notion that all acts in "self interest" are bad is garbage. SO isn't designed to care about your motives. We care about your actions. Are you improving the site's content? Good. Are you degrading the site's content? Bad. We don't care why either way. The point of the reputation system is to reward good behavior. If someone is educating users on proper use of the site mechanics and happens to get a reward out of it, that's the system working as intended. It's only a problem if people are getting pressured into rewarding content they don't believe is helpful. | |
May 20, 2022 at 7:02 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray Okay. How do you tell the difference between that and educating users? Is there a meaningful, distinguishing factor? If so, why isn't it written into the rule instead of a blanket ban? If not, why are you concerned? This rule as written is not targeted at anyone in particular. It's a blanket ban. "We don't want to spend time doing it right" is not a valid reason to have a badly written policy or for punishing legitimate and vital activity. It's just bad moderation, and quite frankly from my experience, SO has become a culture of bad moderation. This only validates that perception. | |
May 20, 2022 at 6:39 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @jpmc26 Yes, we want to encourage voting. What we do not want to do is have a user in a position of self-interest or perceived power (due to rep, badges, or other factors) implore new users to take a particular action that represents nothing more than an individual's opinion. The people who are going too far with asking for upvotes and accepts are the people at whom this new policy is directed. Mods don't waste time thinking about or discussing things that haven't become a serious problem at a scale that vastly outstrips our ability to deal with them. | |
May 20, 2022 at 4:00 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @CodyGray The idea that accepts are no longer very important suggests people should switch to encouraging voting, not that people should stop encouraging users to use the content rating features of the site. Yes, some people go way too far with asking for upvotes or accepts. But that means you should adjust the policy to deal better with bad actors, not make it draconian in a way that creates absurd traps for users who are legitimately trying to educate new users on content rating, which helps with curation. Blanket banning linking these help topics is going way too far. This is nuts. | |
May 19, 2022 at 23:42 | comment | added | Matt Mc | It's very twilight zone to have a Mod say that we don't care about the contest of writing the best answer. That's how you get good content. | |
May 19, 2022 at 23:05 | answer | added | rgettman | timeline score: 12 | |
May 19, 2022 at 20:59 | comment | added | Sylvester is on codidact.com | @MattDMo Unfortunately, responding feedback seems to be low on the priority list these days (sigh)... We keep getting meta posts that are like "We're going to do this thing, you can yell at us if you want", not "We want your input: should we do this thing?" | |
May 19, 2022 at 20:43 | answer | added | EJoshuaS - Stand with Ukraine | timeline score: 47 | |
May 19, 2022 at 20:40 | comment | added | MattDMo | @SylvesterKruin I got the exact same message too a few weeks ago. I tried to respond (I was very polite) and just asked for some proof of their claims. Never heard back. | |
May 19, 2022 at 20:05 | answer | added | jpmc26 | timeline score: 26 | |
May 19, 2022 at 18:40 | answer | added | bad_coder | timeline score: 2 | |
May 19, 2022 at 18:24 | comment | added | Karl Knechtel | "The whole "noise" argument has never made much sense to me. The comments aren't what you look at when you're actually looking for the Answer. They are just an extra." Yes; they're extra. They take up space on the page. They make you scroll further when you are looking for the Answer. | |
May 19, 2022 at 17:59 | comment | added | Drew Reese | @SylvesterKruin I also found the messaging quite vague and presumptive. It implies any attempt to help another user understand the site better can only be perceived as malicious. The term "bullying" has now also been thrown into the mix. From what I can see it's completely opaque where these metrics are coming from. | |
May 19, 2022 at 17:52 | comment | added | Sylvester is on codidact.com | I think we should stop looking at the comments themselves, and focus on the underlying cause of the comments. It's like telling the engine to stop growling, when the problem is that the oil needs to be changed. Of course, in both cases, there's not a perfect solution, and there never will be, but I do think we could be doing a little better. | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:47 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: -8 | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:38 | comment | added | TylerH | This is the wrong decision; maybe one day when the system actually does a good job at educating users on this and enforcing it automatically, we can implement such a rule. But until then, it's nuking a problem from orbit when only a framing hammer is needed. | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:30 | comment | added | Kevin B | I'd be interested to know what percentage of users who are leaving comments like this are hitting the daily rep cap "very often" | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:20 | comment | added | Kevin | I don't think this is being presented as a proposal so maybe the title should be updated? | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:14 | comment | added | Clive | @Machavity might be better to literally say “pressured” if that’s what’s meant. “Bullying” is a pretty charged term and the quotes don’t really soften it. It’s going to put peoples backs up even if unintentionally so. | |
May 19, 2022 at 16:04 | answer | added | Karl Knechtel | timeline score: 25 | |
May 19, 2022 at 15:47 | answer | added | Ian Campbell | timeline score: -4 | |
May 19, 2022 at 15:31 | answer | added | Stephen OstermillerMod | timeline score: -5 | |
May 19, 2022 at 15:22 | comment | added | Kevin B | I mean, that depends on the reasons people are against it, does it not? if there's certain concerns people have with this proposal, that changes to it or potential system fixes can alleviate, it'd still be able to be implemented regardless of what the number at the top shows | |
May 19, 2022 at 15:20 | comment | added | Ian Campbell | It seems like this proposal may end up being unpopular. Could you potentially edit the proposal to describe what would happen should there be clear community consensus against the proposed rule? | |
May 19, 2022 at 14:52 | comment | added | Gimby | @trincot that is exactly what Stack Overflow expects you to do - pretend to be a robot. Be neutral, all business, to the point and leave emotions at the door. And the further we get away from the summer of love, the harder that seems to be for people to do. I mean just how hard is it for people to not see a downvote on a piece of content as a personal insult. | |
May 19, 2022 at 13:11 | comment | added | trincot | @trlkly, agreed, I also don't understand the "noise" argument. We are humans. We talk, we chat, we express emotions, we make "noise". Take that away and we kill the human factor, and make this a robotic place, driven by template notifications, eventually killing the user's motivation. | |
May 19, 2022 at 12:57 | answer | added | Braiam | timeline score: 13 | |
May 19, 2022 at 12:52 | comment | added | Machavity Mod | To clarify, Cody is not accusing anyone of actual bullying (which would be followed up with moderator actions as that would violate the CoC). You'll note he wrapped it in quotes, which connotes he doesn't literally mean that, but something in that same vein (see this English.SE post for how that works). A better term might be "pressured". We don't want new users to feel like they MUST upvote or accept posts. | |
May 19, 2022 at 12:33 | comment | added | trlkly | I'm not a fan of people caring too much about their reputation score. The purpose of such is not to try and win more than other people, but to provide feedback to the user about their contributions. But I also think that it should matter if a proposal lacks community support, and that heavy handed tactics should not be employed simply to reduce moderator workload. If the majority of meta doesn't agree these comments are a problem, then they shouldn't be treated as one. | |
May 19, 2022 at 12:25 | comment | added | trlkly | @CodyGray Also, we know they're not being bullied because the comments do not have bullying language or otherwise attempt to force someone to act. Treating politely worded comments as possible bullying minimizes actual bullying. | |
May 19, 2022 at 11:52 | comment | added | trlkly | The whole "noise" argument has never made much sense to me. The comments aren't what you look at when you're actually looking for the Answer. They are just an extra. And they already get automatically filtered by default if there are very many of them. It seems to me that, if the mods want less work with comments, it would make more sense to just deprioritize deleting comments and let the built in system handle it when it hides them. | |
May 19, 2022 at 10:36 | answer | added | einpoklum | timeline score: -5 | |
May 19, 2022 at 10:07 | comment | added | Drew Reese | Why are comments that effectively only link to help getting grouped together with the comments seeking votes/accepts? These are two obviously different types of comments. The goal appears to be to lighten the moderation workload, keep the site lean. Where is this "pressure" and bullying aspect coming from? Why is the aspect of inappropriate comments which have very specific close reasons getting mixed with noisy comment that could be flagged NLN? | |
May 19, 2022 at 9:36 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | When moderators write things on Meta Stack Overflow, it's reasonable to assume that they're talking about moderating things on Stack Overflow, @ouflak. That said, I'm sure this would also be an issue on other Stack Exchange sites, if they operated at the scale that Stack Overflow does for as many years. Check back in 6-8 years, and I suspect you'll find it being a problem. Or maybe not, because, on smaller sites where the comment volume is substantially lower, moderators can and have been staying on top of deleting comments like these as they come in, rather than building up mountains of 'em. | |
May 19, 2022 at 8:59 | answer | added | Thom A | timeline score: 31 | |
May 19, 2022 at 8:53 | comment | added | ouflak | "We've (the moderator team) been wrestling with this issue for some time." - I assume you mean just the SO moderators? I couldn't find any recent discussion on the Teams channel, and I think it's obvious that this is a site wide issue. | |
May 19, 2022 at 8:17 | answer | added | OfirD | timeline score: -5 | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:58 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Most of the mods thought so, too, @Gimby, but the reaction we've been getting from users whom we've reached out to about it has suggested a very different impression/understanding of what is allowed/customary, so we're trying to take a step back and clarify. | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:46 | comment | added | Gimby | Well... I'm stunned. I really thought this already was disallowed! | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:30 | comment | added | 0Valt | wdym, @RobC? IIRC those are just edited out by normal users and mods only get involved when the user persists in rolling back such edits | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:26 | comment | added | RobC | @OlegValteriswithUkraine - presumably the same proposed enforcements will apply in such scenarios too? | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:20 | answer | added | iBug | timeline score: 47 | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:19 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @PeterMortensen - If I'm aware of a duplicate, I go try to find it and I even have my own reference list of regular duplicates. Otherwise, it's pretty hard to find a good duplicate on SO, even when you figure there probably is one. And, there are duplicates in partial concept that won't actually illustrate a direct solution to the OP's actual code. I refer to those as "go read the textbook duplicates". I generally avoid using those because they don't actually directly solve the OP's problem. | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:16 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | @jfriend00: Re "I try to go above and beyond in my explanation": That is what we need, instead of "try this" answers. But do you check for duplicates first? The main use case for Stack Overflow is finding answers by using a search engine. | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:10 | comment | added | 0Valt | That's never been allowed, @RobC. It's noise subject for removal according to the editing guidelines. | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:09 | comment | added | RobC | Sometimes the “answers” themselves include a closing sentence that asks for accepts and/or votes. Presumably that’s also no longer allowed? | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:07 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @EikePierstorff - Yeah, your comment about working for free made me chuckle. Probably best just to ignore Meta entirely anyway. It's such a distorted place - probably better named "moderator's world" where the priority is curation and making moderator's lives easier, not attracting, incenting or creating great content. | |
May 19, 2022 at 7:06 | comment | added | Eike Pierstorff | @jfriend00 actually it was presented as a policy that already has been enforced for some time and is now finally explained to the broader public. I will do what I always do with these rules and just ignore them, and shrug my shoulders when I am eventually removed from the platform, because it really is not my loss when I am not allowed to work for free. | |
May 19, 2022 at 6:57 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @DrewReese - Yeah, I felt the same way. This wasn't presented for discussion or solicitation of ideas/reactions. It was presented as a new policy to deal with. | |
May 19, 2022 at 6:55 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @CodyGray - Well, if you don't care about the contest, but do care about the content, then somehow you must think that the contest has nothing at all to do with the creation of content. If you really think that, then why not just get rid of reputation entirely. If the contest is meaningless and useless, then reputation must therefore also be meaningless. You're throwing the baby out with the bath water here. The contest is a means to an end. Sure, the content is the end game, but the contest is part of how you get good content. | |
May 19, 2022 at 6:49 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @CodyGray - If I'm not spending all my time curating instead of actually writing answers, then nobody seems to like you on Meta. Meta is a ridiculous environment. It's all about curation and NOTHING else. It completely forsakes the fundamental things that make Stackoverflow work, attracting people to come write questions and encouraging people to write great answers. This is such a distorted place. The point of this seems to be curation and making moderators life easier - that's it - nothing at all to do with making the site better. I fear for the beginning of the decline of SO. | |
May 19, 2022 at 6:46 | comment | added | jfriend00 | @CodyGray - Hmm, you don't care about the contest. Then you're shooting yourselves in the foot for one of the things that makes this place work. I guess I really ought to consider taking my services elsewhere. But, then nobody here on Meta seems to care what one a top 50 reputation user thinks. | |
May 19, 2022 at 6:25 | answer | added | Daniel Widdis | timeline score: 50 | |
May 19, 2022 at 5:44 | comment | added | Drew Reese | It doesn't feel much like a policy change discussion so much as it feels like a policy change announcement. Whatever the new rule is, just please make it clear where the line is. | |
May 19, 2022 at 5:37 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | We absolutely do not care about the contest. What we care about is the content. Going above and beyond to produce a high-quality answer should be done because you, too, care about the content, and, in general, our overarching goal of creating a high-quality knowledge-base style resource for people with questions about programming. If the contest happens to produce high-quality content, I guess that's good. But if the contest is getting in the way and producing noise, then that's bad. Even if you want to treat this as a contest/game, then let's say that such comments are cheating. | |
May 19, 2022 at 5:35 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | What's ridiculous is assuming that the user acquiescing to accept an answer is equivalent to "successfully educating" them. Why not assume your comment had the effect of "successfully bullying" them? No one is attempting to call the intentions of users who leave these comments into question. I'm sure the vast majority of posters had the purest of intentions. But intentions aside, that's not how such comments come across, and not the effect they have. The mere fact that your 10+ years of such comments have led to what is, in your opinion, a "desirable" outcome is actually the key issue. @jfri | |
May 19, 2022 at 5:08 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | I even see a significant percentage of the users who leave these types of comments stating explicitly (or at least implying) that they are less willing to help the user because they haven't accepted answers. That's so horribly wrong that I don't even know where to begin, and it's a large part of why moderator attention started getting focused on this particular matter. Contrary to what some appear to believe, this site isn't about reputation or badges or shiny fake Internet bling. It's not even about helping specific people. It's about building a knowledge repository. Accepts don't do that. | |
May 19, 2022 at 4:33 | comment | added | Mark Ransom | @CodyGray if that system were truly obsoleting the comments we wouldn't be having this discussion. | |
May 19, 2022 at 4:25 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | In what way is any "prioritization" occurring, @Mark? Our primary goal here is to reduce the amount of noisy comments that waste everyone's time: they waste the time of users who have to post them, they waste the time of everyone who looks at the Q&A and stumbles over them instead of useful, relevant content, and they waste the time of flaggers and/or moderators who have to delete them. There is no reason to, and multiple disadvantages entailed in, sharing this kind of information via comments. It is better provided as just-in-time help by the system, which it already is, obsoleting comments. | |
May 19, 2022 at 4:24 | answer | added | Red | timeline score: -9 | |
May 19, 2022 at 3:52 | comment | added | Mark Ransom | This seems way too draconian. You're prioritizing the clueless newbs over the seasoned users who are trying to make the site better. | |
May 19, 2022 at 3:13 | answer | added | Aykhan Hagverdili | timeline score: 191 | |
May 19, 2022 at 2:15 | answer | added | Drew Reese | timeline score: 31 | |
May 19, 2022 at 1:39 | answer | added | Ryan MMod | timeline score: 79 | |
May 19, 2022 at 1:21 | answer | added | Joseph Sible-Reinstate Monica | timeline score: 238 | |
May 19, 2022 at 0:23 | answer | added | 41686d6564 | timeline score: 105 | |
May 18, 2022 at 23:40 | history | asked | MachavityMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |