Timeline for An asker inserted insults in a question edit; a ‘rude or abusive’ flag was raised in response. Why was it disputed?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
22 events
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Feb 18, 2022 at 15:24 | comment | added | Lundin | @cigien It admittedly leads nowhere, these kind of comments are just the result of frustration with the quality decay of this site. It used to be a site for professional/enthusiast programmers, see. (A programmer being someone with at least an utter minimum of knowledge about programming.) I try to just down vote too simple questions now, or close vote as simple typo/dupe vote if it's some uninteresting FAQ syntax error thing. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 15:23 | comment | added | TylerH | @E_net4thecurator I was replying to your comment, where you said "we better think about what we want moderators to be" | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 15:18 | comment | added | cigien | This is starting to get off-topic, but may I ask why you want to "prompt" new users into making an effort at all? In your experience, does that actually work? Also, it's not really our place as users to give other users such advice, is it? You can give such advice if you want, but it's actually very hard to do that without coming across as condescending. I'd suggest refraining from leaving such comments. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 15:02 | comment | added | Lundin | @cigien Nah I got the spirit of the warnings and it seems to be "As a moderator I am above the CoC and I can therefore hand out arbitrary warnings whenever I feel like. I don't like that you think that posters should actually know something about the topic they are asking about." I did send a message back asking along the lines of what exactly in the CoC that prevents us from prompting new users in comments about making an effort into knowing the utter minimum about the topic they are asking about, but no reply. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 14:46 | comment | added | cigien | 1) I don't know what the requirements used to be a long time ago, but policies change over time. I know you understand that because you clearly feel this particular meta shouldn't be closed as a duplicate of posts that are several years old, since policy might have changed. 2) The warnings you received seem reasonable to me, even if you only got a warning on later offenses, instead of the first one. The CoC you quoted does say "most", not "all". Anyway, I'm sure you can poke at the language all day long, but you do seem to have missed the spirit of the warnings, which is unfortunate. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 14:33 | comment | added | Lundin | @cigien Other than that, I think I got a warning at another time maybe 5-6 years back. Again, for those who actually bothered to read the CoC: "For most first-time misconduct, moderators will remove offending content and send a warning." If it wasn't my first offence, then the moderators would be even more inconsistent in case they chose to send a warning "whenever they feel like" rather than as stated in the CoC. Are you saying this is the case? | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 14:21 | comment | added | Lundin | @cigien They also gave a couple of other very similar "you should read the first chapters of a book" comments as reason. The moderator gave some meta post as rationale and quoted "it might be a basic question, but that in itself is no reason to prevent having it asked and answered on Stack Overflow." Basically the moderator didn't like that I was remarking on users who use SO as an interactive beginner tutorial instead of reading the first chapters of beginner-level learning material. Which used to be a firm requirement before posting on SO, before the $$$quantity$$$ over quality era. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 14:11 | comment | added | cigien | @Lundin "This was apparently enough for the moderator team to take disciplinary actions." No, I very seriously doubt that. If that was the only problematic comment you'd ever posted then I agree completely that any disciplinary action was unwarranted. My guess is that this is very far from your first such offense. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 11:21 | comment | added | Lundin | @Peter-ReinstateMonica Nah, the company has never realized that the users of the site are their (potential or existing) customers. Though I don't quite see how telling new customers to outright f* off instead would be an improvement in that regard. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 11:10 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | @Lundin Ts ts. Scaring away new customers? Capital offense. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 9:01 | comment | added | E_net4 | @TylerH I'm not sure why you mentioned me there. Moderators should indeed act, act well, and preferably act as soon as possible. | |
Feb 18, 2022 at 7:57 | comment | added | Lundin | @Peter-ReinstateMonica The core problem here isn't that the mods think they can ignore verbal abuse, but that the level of moderation is completely inconsistent. As I wrote in another comment thread, moderators gave me a warning one month ago for posting this comment: "This is very basic stuff. You should study the if statement, arrays, pointers and strings in your favourite beginner-level C book." This was apparently enough for the moderator team to take disciplinary actions. I should supposedly have written "f* off (name), go read a book and don't use this shitty website" instead. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 23:41 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | While you are technically correct there is in my opinion no need to get all wound up over verbal abuse. The wise simply ignore it and grace more important and worthwhile things with their attention. And please don't start with a code of conduct which is the product of people who have too much time on their hands with too little to do. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 20:41 | comment | added | TylerH | @E_net4thecurator I definitely want moderators to act on intentional, deliberate defacement of posts that also include offensive language targeted at specific users, even if it's a first-time offense. At the very least, I want them to consider flags re: such behavior to be helpful. That's exactly the kind of user moderation that elected moderators are uniquely positioned (and elected) to deal with. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 18:18 | comment | added | Lundin | @IMSoP You get a notification and an email. It looks quite different from a regular user notification. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 17:26 | comment | added | IMSoP | Genuine question: other than removing the content, what is the action you would like the moderator to have taken in this case? There has been mention of "issuing a warning", but I'm not sure what this actually looks like to the user. In my experience, new users have no understanding of the difference between high-rep users, moderators, and staff, so would they understand the difference between this "official warning" and a comment on the question from a normal user? | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 14:24 | history | edited | cigien | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
spelling and grammar fixes
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Feb 17, 2022 at 10:36 | comment | added | Lundin | @ErikA Yes, it is a sad state of affairs. But in all fairness I don't think anyone has actually escalated this to CMs though, so we can't really accuse the company of being ignorant. Sure, it would be common sense to have employees monitor their own flag ship product, so that it isn't allowed to lose credibility like this, but that's another story. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 10:29 | comment | added | Erik A | Interesting take. If, instead of a well-written meta question, the OP would have whined on twitter about a blatant insult in violation of the CoC and the flag on it being disputed, and had at least a modest following, imagine the response the company would've had. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 8:56 | comment | added | Lundin | @E_net4thecurator I want moderators to moderate the site consistently and after some sort of consensus, such as the mandatory Code of Conduct. I don't want them to make decisions based on whims, mood or personal opinions. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 8:51 | comment | added | E_net4 | Better think about what we really want moderators to be: agents of de-escalation... or agents of punishment. The former may involve a bit of the latter, but that doesn't mean we get to shift the goal post. | |
Feb 17, 2022 at 8:03 | history | answered | Lundin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |