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Nov 4, 2021 at 8:11 comment added Ansgar Wiechers To put it in other words: the firing of Monica Cellio and the subsequent fallout were a symptom of a much larger underlying problem, and while the symptom has been handled, the underlying problem still persists despite all attempts to handwave it away.
Nov 4, 2021 at 1:56 comment added jpmc26 @KevinB No one expects SO to do anything specifically about Monica or is trying to get them to. People are continuing to talk about it because it reflects on the nature of the problems. No, they can't go back and undo the damage, but they could admit it was wrong and there are things they could change right now to fully reverse course on the harmful policies and ideology.
Nov 3, 2021 at 15:01 comment added Kevin B Put another way, That ship sailed 2+ years ago. A whole lot of wasted effort is being thrown behind a lost cause that the staff is going to simply continue to rightfully ignore.
Nov 3, 2021 at 14:54 comment added Kevin B @jpmc26 eh, i disagree. Zeroing in on a single event means it's easy to just handwave the rest away and forget about it... Particularly when that single event is as "resolved" as it's ever going to get. A lot of the people involved in it aren't even here anymore.
Nov 3, 2021 at 4:55 comment added jpmc26 @KevinB You would find my comments above interesting, I think. I don't totally disagree with you, but sometimes it's helpful to see a long string of smaller events in light of the most drastic result that comes from them or that shares the same underlying cause. It can be helpful in that it very quickly provides some much needed context and an indisputable indication of the severity. It can be a lot harder to convince people that there even is a problem if it's death by a thousand paper cuts or a slow boiling frog.
Nov 2, 2021 at 17:52 comment added Kevin B I find it unfortunate that one event seems to often overshadow the far larger long-term issues that came to light around the same time.
Nov 2, 2021 at 17:49 comment added Makoto This was the catalyst; the last large crack in the dam before it finally gave way. The reality is that this pressure had been building for damn near close to a decade before this.
Nov 2, 2021 at 7:23 comment added Lundin @JonH It was settled in court after a fund-raiser to pay for legal costs. As part of the deal made, Monica cannot comment on it and we don't know what SO did or didn't do. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/340906/…
Nov 2, 2021 at 6:20 comment added Travis J @Lundin - Yeah, I feel that. "the firing of CMs and lots of other SO staff".... I know you are well aware, but for me, from a kind of personal place, I took this very personally. I have great respect for the wave of people who were removed during that time period, and the exchange as a whole suffered a great loss with their departure.
Nov 2, 2021 at 2:22 comment added jpmc26 @Lundin I suppose you might call it the "Pearl Harbor" of Stack Overflow, the moment we were forced to acknowledge that neutrality was no longer an option.
Nov 2, 2021 at 1:51 comment added jpmc26 @Lundin Fair enough, but the Monica incident was the point at which it become more than abundantly clear that things had gone completely off the rails. The weird features and attitudes didn't mark the company and staff as completely uninterested in the well being of our community the way Monica's firing did (at least for a majority of users, though the collectivist rhetoric set off some alarm bells for some of us). While the further firings certainly solidified that perspective, Monica was the starting point that made it impossible to assume good faith any longer.
Nov 1, 2021 at 19:02 comment added JonH Some people's ego I swear - I just don't get it. Even if she isn't interested (she most likely is NOT interested at all as she moved on) I would at least ... even if I was CEO ... I would at least reach out to her, tell her I was sorry, ask her to come back (even if she doesn't) and buy her a frigging box of cookies or some sh**. This way I can at least become less of a scum bag? I mean its all said and done, but by at least doing this everyone else can say "Well at least the CEO came along late and apologized..." and we can all live happily ever after without that scarlet letter on us.
Nov 1, 2021 at 17:57 comment added Tech Inquisitor @EricDuminil That makes no difference until the corporate person is suitably penitent. The company can only be redeemed by unequivocally admitting fault and unconditionally offering to reinstate Monica, regardless of whether she's even interested.
Nov 1, 2021 at 15:11 comment added Lundin Except it wasn't an isolated event, but several. There were numerous strange features rolled out during summer 2019 including highly questionable adverts. And then after the whole "pronoun-gate" debacle in autumn 2019, there was also the firing of CMs and lots of other SO staff in early 2020.
Nov 1, 2021 at 8:52 comment added Magisch This whole s*-show has scared off or highly demotivated a lot of people, including a lot of people who were interested in moderation in general. This is probably the primary driver of the decline right now. It'll probably even out over time as new users join who weren't around for it, but it'll be felt for some years yet.
Oct 31, 2021 at 16:16 comment added Rounin Ultimately, it doesn't matter that they don't care. We will continue to remember what they did and the appalling stain their actions left on the Stack Overflow brand. I'm happy (more than happy) to come to this platform to help aspirant coders seeking help. But I hold my nose to avoid the stench emanating from this organisation (as currently constituted) given its support for the executives in question. [2/2]
Oct 31, 2021 at 16:16 comment added Rounin The Stack Overflow executives responsible continue to show zero penitence for acting in a manner many regarded as significantly unjust (not to mention petty, careless, and then increasingly calculated and spiteful). They shouldn't think that simply because many of us gave up our "protest usernames" we've forgotten what they did. I genuinely don't think they care - I can't tell if their assumption of nonchalance hides arrogance or cowardice. [1/2]
Oct 31, 2021 at 12:27 history edited 41686d6564 CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 31, 2021 at 11:45 history edited Zoe - Save the data dumpMod CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 31, 2021 at 4:44 history answered jpmc26 CC BY-SA 4.0