Timeline for Where do history-focused questions belong?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
26 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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Jul 21, 2021 at 12:21 | comment | added | Braiam | @MichaelKay you don't understand the architecture, why not ask about that instead? "What advantages provides using subroutines over functions in scenario X?" "What is the purpose of <code excerpt you don't understand>?" Those would yield the answer you are looking for, and would be useful for others with your same problem, while avoiding the subjective realm that asking directly "why" brings upon. | |
Jul 21, 2021 at 10:45 | comment | added | Michael Kay | This meta-question is actually about two overlapping categories: historical questions, and "why" questions. Perhaps it's really about questions in the intersection of these categories: "historical why questions". I find myself asking such questions whenever I'm learning a new technology. Why does language X have both functions and subroutines? I've been asked to do some maintenance on legacy code, I need to understand why it's written the way it is, and understanding the thinking of the language designers will help me understand the program I'm struggling with. | |
Jul 21, 2021 at 6:15 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | I see it less strict. I just have to reasonably well motivate that there could be one in order to open the debate. Finding an existing example might be difficult because maybe people just shoot all potential examples down. Learning from history sounds worthwhile to me. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 22:44 | comment | added | Makoto | @Trilarion: I never asked for any individual to provide an on-the-spot example. Those are easy to shoot down and drown out a lot of other debate. What I want is an example on the network that has stood the test of time that would be considered a history-focused question that might not meet our otherwise stringent requirements for an on-topic question that doesn't have any associated controversies with it. If you're having trouble with coming up with examples of one, perhaps it's better to assume that it doesn't exist until you happen across it instead of trying to contrive one? | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 22:14 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | I didn't do a good job coming up with good example questions. However it doesn't mean they don't exist. One angle could be learning from history (otherwise you have to repeat it goes the saying). So maybe a question like: what were the most expensive design errors in language X and why (Java null for example) might be instructive although still quite difficult to answer objectively. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 20:48 | comment | added | peterh | These questions are not "trivia-centric" and it is not an easy task to dig out the exact details of their decision process from decade old mailing list archives. Learn more about other SE sites, not the SO is the world. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 19:25 | comment | added | Makoto | @FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier: To follow up to why I stated that Trilarion's examples "didn't matter" - it's because they satisfy curiosity for curiosity's sake, and they're not entirely constructive. For #1, if a program still needs to be maintained from the 70s and there's bugs in it, ask how to debug it now, not how it was debugged then. The programming paradigms that existed when LaTeX was invented are only loosely related subject matters. The length of Windows 3.1 and how many people worked on it sounds like one of those great questions to ask during trivia night. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 19:21 | comment | added | Makoto | @FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier: I would concur with Trilarion's comment that you should write a convincing answer to explain why historical answers are valuable to your day-to-day. However I would be maintaining my position on the general and broad practicality of historical answers in general - for the archetypal software developer that visits Stack Overflow from Google searches, learning the headspace of what engineers had to deal with back in the '70s when they were writing COBOL programs isn't exactly an answer to how to solve a specific problem in their current language. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 14:40 | comment | added | Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier | @Trilarion Yes, I now realize that my use of inappropriate was... inappropriate, though I'm not quite sure what words would convey what I tried to say. Of course, Makoto is entitled to say this, but I find that opinion about what matters or not in programming to be wrong. No hard feelings Makoto. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 12:49 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier I believe there are great questions about programming history but I'm not sure how big their usefulness for my daily work really is. You say they help you significantly, so maybe you could write your own answer here detailing some ways how you profit from historical knowledge. I would be interested to read it. However, regarding inappropriateness, I hardly think that counts here. It's implied that Meta discussions deal with opinions mostly. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 1:43 | comment | added | Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier | Or, differently put, the way your brain function is not normative @Makoto, such broad strokes as what you seem to convey here are quite inappropriate, if I may. | |
Jul 20, 2021 at 1:42 | comment | added | Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier | @Makoto The things that help me actually get work done in the course of any day now, is all these small bits and pieces of knowledge and wisdom I gleaned from various artifcats in the past years, many of which were answers, but a sizeable part of which were understanding constraints that humans had before, or why a particular thing was made. I exist in stark contradiction with your assertion that none of these matter. They have a great deal of importance in my life, on a daily basis. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 22:16 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Let's not start declaring questions off-topic because they have answers on Wikipedia or other sources... | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 22:12 | comment | added | Makoto | @Trilarion: Nah, none of those things matter. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 21:37 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | There might be more interesting programming history questions existing that would also serve some educational purposes, especially if not starting with why. For example: How did programmers debug in the 70s? What programming paradigms were known when Latex was invented? How long was the source code for Windows 3.1 and how many programmers worked on it?... | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 20:35 | comment | added | Braiam | @StayOnTarget that are asked merely for the entertainment of the asker. A "serious" question shows research, effort by the asker. They aren't merely "curious", they are "constructively curious". | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 20:31 | comment | added | StayOnTarget | I'm not following what you mean by "serious"? | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 20:28 | comment | added | Makoto | @StayOnTarget: Are any of those historical questions not serious? Find me a historical question in that pile that isn't as serious as the others. I'll wait. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 20:26 | comment | added | StayOnTarget | Are you including all of history.stackexchange.com in that? | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 20:25 | comment | added | Makoto | @StayOnTarget: I have asked time and time again for a canonical example of a "good" historical question, and I have yet to have anyone actually find one for me to reference. I don't buy this philosophy that "it might exist"; either it does and it's on the site and it's on-topic and relevant with limited or no controversy, or it doesn't, and it falls into the typical pattern that every other question of this kind has. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 19:46 | comment | added | StayOnTarget | @Braiam it seems like a broad assumption that history questions are automatically "trivia". Or at least, a subjective judgement. Maybe some of them are, but I also think there can be a lot to learn from the history of many things. Possibly the 4 examples cited in this question don't have that potential, however. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 19:39 | comment | added | Braiam | @StayOnTarget there are not many of those. Even Arqade is serious about questions about games. RPG? Ultra serious. Worldbuilding? HA! Not even the "fun" SE sites allow trivia questions, why would those that are about business do so? | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 19:32 | comment | added | StayOnTarget | I'm not sure why you extend this to Stack Exchange as a whole? The various sites are not all focused on people getting their professional job done. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 18:53 | comment | added | Makoto | @FélixAdriyelGagnon-Grenier: You don't get Google/Bing/Yahoo/Jeeves/Metacrawler hits on Stack Overflow looking at trivia. You get people in the normal course of their work day looking for ways to tackle a problem. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 17:32 | comment | added | Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier | "[...] actually help a developer get their job done on a daily basis." I don't only want to nitpick but I am not sure helping job be done on a daily basis is a requirement. | |
Jul 19, 2021 at 17:24 | history | answered | Makoto | CC BY-SA 4.0 |