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Apr 15, 2023 at 5:16 comment added cmgchess Same thing happened to me as well. I write answers for a somewhat small tag (1500 qs in total and getting around 3 qs/month on average). Only a couple of people including me actively engage in the tag (one being an employee). Now I feel that my account is at risk of getting suspended if I vote again for a post that actually solves stuff
Jun 25, 2021 at 23:19 history edited Sabito CC BY-SA 4.0
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Jun 25, 2021 at 14:57 comment added Jofre This feature request is not related to anything else in the collectives (like articles). This is only focused on going back to using stackex as intended: upvoting good answers. This is not currently the way that people in a company experience this forum (if we want to follow the rules), and the collectives idea seems like it could give the tools to get back to being able to use stackex as originally intended.
Jun 25, 2021 at 14:41 comment added Kevin B The other side of the coin is articles are effectively permanently bountied for free posts. If it's easily accessible, it will draw upvotes by default. they are essentially meaningless, but we're giving away rep for it.
Jun 25, 2021 at 14:32 comment added Jofre @KevinB Right now the bias is the opposite: we're encouraged to never upvote a colleague, no matter how good is the answer. I'm not sure which bias is worse. Also, I'm not sure if there's a general solution. Removing reputation is one of the ideas to mitigate any possible incentive people could have for upvoting a colleague (other than thinking the answer is good).
Jun 25, 2021 at 14:25 comment added Kevin B Simply removing the reputation only fixes one side of the problem. It won't prevent people with a possible bias from expressing that bias and affecting scores, which are used for other purposes such as gold tag badges, and affect the sort order of the posts which does have a big impact on future votes from others.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:30 comment added Jofre I would be OK with blocking upvotes between employees of the same collective (even if this obviously skews the votes towards non-employees). Right now the rules add additional friction (additional hours of development and maintaining work for the extension) in order for more than one person in a company to check the same tags. Collective employees seem to be a solution for that.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:26 comment added Scratte I understand the issue with a small tags and just a few users. I just don't think there's a fix for it that doesn't come across as a voting ring. When a few users vote on each other's posts I'd say it resembles a voting ring. It doesn't have to be arranged or nefarious. The score reflects the usefulness of the post which is now being set within the small amount of users. It doesn't matter if they get reputation or not. The vote changes the implied value of the post. Having my colleague go and upvote all my posts just scews the natural score. This would make detecting fraud harder too.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:21 comment added Jofre @Scratte Note that I don't say members, nor recognized members. I'm talking about employees. I would say that any upvote given while you're an employee of the collective to another current employee of the collective should not change reputation.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:18 comment added Jofre I don't claim to know how the system works. I just know I tried to improve the community by providing good answers to good questions, and upvoting existing good answers (as per stackex rules), and I got a warning message, so we stopped upvoting colleagues completely just to be on the safe side.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:15 comment added Scratte Sorry about spamming your comment section, but there's another thing to consider: What happens when a user joins a collective? Do all the members get a reputation reduction to account for the joining user's particular votes? Will the user get a similar reduction? Does leaving the collective give both the user and members of the collective back the reputation that they couldn't get while that user was in the collective? I can see how this request could kill the Collectives™ feature pretty fast ;)
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:13 comment added BDL @Scratte: When an question has two answer, one from a colleague, one from some random user. If both answers are good, but I'm not allowed to vote on the answer by the colleague, I can now decide not to vote at all (no vote for the other user), or I only upvote the other users answer which skews the votes towards that answer.
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:05 comment added Scratte I'm imagine something like the "Oracle" collective with oracle, java tags..
Jun 25, 2021 at 12:02 comment added Scratte I'm not sure I understand how you not voting on the posts will have a negative effect. If the views are low, then it means not a lot of users check them out. So you voting on those posts will scew the voting pr. view Stack normally sees on posts, no? Also, removing the reputation factor on special circumstances seems like a unnecessary complication that probably doesn't change anything for the tag score a user gets for the vote. To account for that, we'll need more complexity. And what if someone is in a huge collective? Then none of the votes there would give them any reputation.
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:52 comment added Abdul Aziz Barkat @BDL 2-3 upvotes doesn't sound like high distribution of votes towards certain user to me (although 2-3 every day would, in which case the system would be correct anyway), this is in reference to the previous comment about low traffic tags, in which case do you really believe this feature would be useful anyway?
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:48 comment added BDL @AbdulAzizBarkat: The system doesn't (and can't) differentiate between votes based on users and votes based on content. Also: Isn't that the same thing op said? That they actually vote on content, but due to the high distribution of votes towards certain users they were warned? Now they don't upvote good content anymore if it is posted by a colleague. I'd say that the damage done by not voting on good content compared to the gain of "boosting" a colleagues vote count (but without rep gain) is higher.
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:43 comment added Abdul Aziz Barkat @BDL If there are only 3 questions a day and about 5 regular answerers then surely it is at most 3 upvotes you want to make to the same person (2 would be more likely). Surely the system won't consider this as abuse, considering you happened naturally on these posts and the upvote frequency is not that high?
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:37 comment added BDL @AbdulAzizBarkat: That's simply not true for smaller tags. The tag I'm active in has like 3 questions a day, and maybe 5 regular answerer. I bet 75% of my votes go to those people naturally. If we would be in the same company, I'd be in exactly the same situation as op is. I could now go around and upvote random stuff outside of that tag just to make sure that I skew the vote distribution, but this also doesn't sound like a good way to use votes.
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:37 comment added Jofre @AbdulAzizBarkat I think the last point you mention is the important one: you aren't the only ones voting. If we try to check all un-answered questions (which gives more value to the community than looking at already answered questions), we'll find those low-view questions with just an answer from one of our colleagues. If I upvote that good answer, then due to the low view count of that question my upvote will be the only one on my colleague's answer, and this might have caused an issue with the automated warning system. This does not mean the answer was bad, or the upvote was illegitimate.
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:33 comment added Abdul Aziz Barkat There is no problem with voting for your colleagues, there is a problem with doing it too frequently. In the post you quote it says "substantial number of votes on your account to or from specific users", hence it is okay to upvote for your colleagues here and there. You get 40 votes per day, and there are much more posts than that daily, hence I would believe that surely there would be other posts for you to upvote and hence get good answers to raise to the top. Plus you aren't the only ones voting if some answer is good someone else would also think the same and upvote the answer :)
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:30 history edited Jofre CC BY-SA 4.0
added 4 characters in body
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:24 comment added Jofre They're not the only ones, but usually the answer of somebody who develops/works with a product every day tends to be good. Depending on the size of the company, there could be lots of colleagues answering the same tags. I do not think I upvoted my colleagues more than the rest of the community, but we received that warning message nonetheless. The fact that the people working with the product (which employees are) can't upvote good answers because they're written by colleagues seem to be a bigger problem to get good answers to raise to the top.
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:17 comment added Abdul Aziz Barkat Voting is how content is rated on Stack Overflow, allowing people to vote something without reputation changes still leaves the fact that the post is now rated higher than it was previously and hence still is a "benefit" for your colleagues, which is why this feature request doesn't sound good to me. Moving further if you find yourself voting your colleagues too frequently it seems you need to reflect on that, there are many questions on Stack Overflow, surely your colleagues aren't the only people posting good questions / answers on the tags you follow?
Jun 25, 2021 at 11:04 history asked Jofre CC BY-SA 4.0