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Update to address your update:

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful feedback. I’ve read through much of it and there are a few things that stand out to me.

No problem. Thanks again for reading our feedback and taking it into consideration. Just imagine if you had built everything ahead of time only to announce it and find out everyone hates it. That would be a disaster.

I should warn you that quantifying a "substantial edit" correctly is probably the hardest thing you will do trying to pull this plan off. I certainly don't expect you to get it right the first time. When you do, please give us as much information as you can and be transparent as you can about it. This isn't as much about "transparency" as it is about helping us to be better curators. Knowing what could potentially get a question reopened automatically can better help us decide what action is most appropriate for a question. And, at the very least, it will help minimize frustration if we know what the system is and isn't capable of doing.

Of course, as always, please warn us when you're about to change something. I'm sure I don't have to say that, but just to be clear: this too will help mitigate frustration if we know in advance.

Which close reasons are eligible for automatic reopens?

I have significantly less objection to the idea that some close reasons will be eligible for automatic reasons and some will not than a blanket automatic reopen which (as you seem to now know) is what it sounded like you were saying. This is simply because a hardware question is less likely to become on-topic with an edit than say a programming question that doesn't give enough data to re-produce the result mentioned. The later could be on-topic given enough to work with, the former is just beyond the scope of our site. The effects of opening the later automatically is probably less harmful if accidentally done incorrectly than the former.

All that said, I actually have less objections to this, but you will have to get it right if you do it. But I'm sure you will before you push it live.

These are questions we're still working through, and your input here as well as our experiments will get us closer to these answers.

So I think what you're trying to get at but aren't asking all the way is why questions get closed. If you aren't asking this, then maybe you should as you continue this process. That certainly seems to be what you're wondering anyway.

Something you should ask yourself is why do we even close questions at all? Like why don't we let the question remain on the site, possibly unanswered, but sill open? It's different for every reason, but most close reasons have a reasoning behind them. It isn't because we want to be mean.

A great example of this is closing because the question doesn't have a minimal, reproducible example (I don't remember exactly what is is called now, as all the reasons changed their names recently, and I haven't exactly committed them all to memory yet). Most questions I find myself closing for this reason is not because I don't want to help the user. Rather, it's often very much because I can't help the user. I don't have access to their code base, much less their environment. If I can't make the problem appear myself, I have no way of knowing what is really wrong with their code. I truly can't help them.

Why do I bring this up? Because on the flip side of this, questions shouldn't be reopened if they still have the problems they started with (or even other problems that somehow get introduced along the way). An edit should fix those problems before opening the question.

Try to internalize the rational of every close reason, and that will help you figure out how to guide the asker to fix the actual problem correctly. It will help guide you what reasons should get a automatic reopening (if any) and which ones should not.

Third, there is always the possibility of a failed test during discovery and experimentation. And that’s okay!

100% agree. In fact, it's likely that you will fail at least once.

It's completely okay to fail as long as you a) recognize that you failed b) learn from your mistakes and c) don't accidentally burn the whole house down by mistake because your experiment failed. Please do a and b. Preferably not c. I'm sure c won't happen, but I just figured I'd throw it on there and hopefully at least make you laugh at me being extreme :D

how can we both educate and help new users navigate their way and encourage them to continue contributing to Stack Overflow, while improving the tools curators, mods, and our CMs use to maintain the site?

I don't envy your job. Thanks for doing it anyway :D

That was long enough to probably be its own answer, but I'll keep it as a part of this one anyway. Okay, on to the original post.

Original Post


First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Update to address your update:

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful feedback. I’ve read through much of it and there are a few things that stand out to me.

No problem. Thanks again for reading our feedback and taking it into consideration. Just imagine if you had built everything ahead of time only to announce it and find out everyone hates it. That would be a disaster.

I should warn you that quantifying a "substantial edit" correctly is probably the hardest thing you will do trying to pull this plan off. I certainly don't expect you to get it right the first time. When you do, please give us as much information as you can and be transparent as you can about it. This isn't as much about "transparency" as it is about helping us to be better curators. Knowing what could potentially get a question reopened automatically can better help us decide what action is most appropriate for a question. And, at the very least, it will help minimize frustration if we know what the system is and isn't capable of doing.

Of course, as always, please warn us when you're about to change something. I'm sure I don't have to say that, but just to be clear: this too will help mitigate frustration if we know in advance.

Which close reasons are eligible for automatic reopens?

I have significantly less objection to the idea that some close reasons will be eligible for automatic reasons and some will not than a blanket automatic reopen which (as you seem to now know) is what it sounded like you were saying. This is simply because a hardware question is less likely to become on-topic with an edit than say a programming question that doesn't give enough data to re-produce the result mentioned. The later could be on-topic given enough to work with, the former is just beyond the scope of our site. The effects of opening the later automatically is probably less harmful if accidentally done incorrectly than the former.

All that said, I actually have less objections to this, but you will have to get it right if you do it. But I'm sure you will before you push it live.

These are questions we're still working through, and your input here as well as our experiments will get us closer to these answers.

So I think what you're trying to get at but aren't asking all the way is why questions get closed. If you aren't asking this, then maybe you should as you continue this process. That certainly seems to be what you're wondering anyway.

Something you should ask yourself is why do we even close questions at all? Like why don't we let the question remain on the site, possibly unanswered, but sill open? It's different for every reason, but most close reasons have a reasoning behind them. It isn't because we want to be mean.

A great example of this is closing because the question doesn't have a minimal, reproducible example (I don't remember exactly what is is called now, as all the reasons changed their names recently, and I haven't exactly committed them all to memory yet). Most questions I find myself closing for this reason is not because I don't want to help the user. Rather, it's often very much because I can't help the user. I don't have access to their code base, much less their environment. If I can't make the problem appear myself, I have no way of knowing what is really wrong with their code. I truly can't help them.

Why do I bring this up? Because on the flip side of this, questions shouldn't be reopened if they still have the problems they started with (or even other problems that somehow get introduced along the way). An edit should fix those problems before opening the question.

Try to internalize the rational of every close reason, and that will help you figure out how to guide the asker to fix the actual problem correctly. It will help guide you what reasons should get a automatic reopening (if any) and which ones should not.

Third, there is always the possibility of a failed test during discovery and experimentation. And that’s okay!

100% agree. In fact, it's likely that you will fail at least once.

It's completely okay to fail as long as you a) recognize that you failed b) learn from your mistakes and c) don't accidentally burn the whole house down by mistake because your experiment failed. Please do a and b. Preferably not c. I'm sure c won't happen, but I just figured I'd throw it on there and hopefully at least make you laugh at me being extreme :D

how can we both educate and help new users navigate their way and encourage them to continue contributing to Stack Overflow, while improving the tools curators, mods, and our CMs use to maintain the site?

I don't envy your job. Thanks for doing it anyway :D

That was long enough to probably be its own answer, but I'll keep it as a part of this one anyway. Okay, on to the original post.

Original Post


First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

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First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Re-openReopen Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the re-open queueReopen Queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're unable to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you re-openreopen a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the closeClose-vote queueVote Queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Re-open Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the re-open queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're unable to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you re-open a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the close-vote queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Reopen Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the Reopen Queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're unable to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you reopen a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the Close-Vote Queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

unable is 1 word, not hyphenated
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user10957435
user10957435

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Re-open Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the re-open queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're un-ableunable to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you re-open a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the close-vote queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Re-open Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the re-open queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're un-able to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you re-open a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the close-vote queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

First of all, thank you for telling us this in advance. That is an improvement from you (the company) compared to 2019, and I just want to take some time and recognize it and thank you. Keep up the good work.

Okay, with that out of the way...


I want to talk about this part right here:

Today on Stack Overflow, roughly 20% of questions are edited after they are closed and just 3% of closed questions are ever reopened.

I get why you would look at this and say, "We really need to open questions up more." This looks like questions are being unrighteously closed. It's really not the problem at all.

The truth is, the problem is not about questions remaining closed, but rather how many deserve to remain closed, even after editing. For the same reason the "Requires Editing" Triage button is confusing, there is only so much other people can do with a question. At the end of the day, a question being opened requires some participation from the OP. If they don't make the question answerable, no one else can.

To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, the Re-open Queue currently (as of the time of this writing) 424 items needing review. That seems like a lot, that is, until you compare it to the Close-Vote Queue which currently (again, at the time of this writing) has 5.4k items needing review! That's over 12 times as big.

My point is this: As seen by the relative sizes of the queues, the issue here not that the re-open queue is under-staffed. Rather, there is something else amiss. It is really likely there are other reasons that these questions aren't getting re-opened. It is not because we're unable to open them.

There's a bigger issue here that I want you to realize. If you re-open a bunch of questions that got closed, how do you think that will affect the close-vote queue? It will almost certainly overload it even more than it is now. This undermines Meg's birthday present. Overall, this will just create even more work, as we'll end up closing things that we already closed once.

TLDR: Please don't re-open questions automatically. That is very counter-productive.

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