Timeline for Upvotes on questions will now be worth the same as upvotes on answers
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
43 events
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Apr 23, 2023 at 1:05 | comment | added | xamid | Is that really what the community wanted, or is said community already gone? Today I can only see that incompetence is rewarded, while hard questions are being downvoted. | |
Dec 4, 2019 at 2:46 | comment | added | clickbait | "But recalculating reputation retroactively is a huge break of trust. A falsification of history. Deceit." I don't think the way they recalculated reputation is a big deal because this is the way they've always done it. When a post gets deleted, the reputation gained/lost from it is erased from history, looking at the user's graph it's like the post was never there. | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 10:19 | comment | added | EricLavault | This is exactly the point, that move could sign the death sentence of SO if answerers go away. | |
Nov 22, 2019 at 19:45 | comment | added | senseiwu | the hypocrisy of pitying about "poor questions" getting rewarded is astonishing..only if you could distinguish the reputation quality of some of the highest earners..most of them earned their 6 or 7 digit reputation by answering poor quality questions, especially during 2008-2014 period | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 1:59 | comment | added | caxcaxcoatl | I'm sure I'm not the only one that actually is on SO so I can show something to a prospective employer (not doing very well on that yet, eh). I'm more interested in showing my actual answers (shows technical knowledge + writing skills) than points, but hey, points are a nice summary. I'd be less opposed to this change if it worked like the question/answer votes split view. That is, if the total points could be shown as question points + answer points. | |
Nov 16, 2019 at 0:21 | comment | added | President James K. Polk | @IncreasinglyIdiotic: *..is not, and never should've been..." I'm afraid that while the second part may be true the first is not. I and many others use rep as a rough measure of everything good, be it intelligence, expertise, or problem-solving skill. I know it's unreliable yet my instinct is treat to high-rep users with deference on all matters. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 19:51 | comment | added | adeneo | @JPSilvashy - of course, all websites are effectively dictatorships, with an owner that ultimately makes all the decisions. However, when your site relies on other people creating all the content, for free, you better at least try to make it appear like they have a say, and keep them happy, that's what the gamification and Meta is about. The people who built SO, Jeff and Joel, got that, but they aren't here anymore, and the new leadership seems to be more busy with making money and increasing pageviews, than keeping up the appereance of including the existing users, to make them happy. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 16:26 | comment | added | JP Silvashy | You didn't "build" SO, they did, you are an end-user. The great thing is you can actually just leave, you were also never actually owed any sort of voice in the conversation, there was never even the false pretense that you would have a say into changes of the points scheme. Sorry it hurts to hear that. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 11:41 | comment | added | user3226167 | For users with 50k-60k rep, on average, less than 15% rep comes from asking questions link. Less than 7% users within range gain rep mainly from asking questions. While this stat is inaccurate, I think rep change does not affect high-rep users. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 3:40 | comment | added | user3226167 | The effect of gamification should be measured by how many users actually gained 10k/50k/100k rep from posting questions (vs posting answers). | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 21:07 | comment | added | Antoine Pelletier | When I first came here, I felt like this was a PRO forum. So I had to be professional myself to get answers. When I was not good enough, people were reacting accordingly. Now, today, saw a sudden gain of about 400 rep points and I feel like I don't deserve them. I got answers to my questions ! That is enough of a reward for asking correctly ! Answer's upvotes should be +15 and questions upvotes still +5 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 17:17 | history | rollback | Will Ness |
Rollback to Revision 4
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Nov 14, 2019 at 15:51 | history | edited | TylerH | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
I'm *pretty* sure you meant deprecation (to make invalid/inactive) rather than depreciation (to make less valuable), but if not, feel free to revert the edit.
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Nov 14, 2019 at 15:15 | comment | added | IMSoP | @DenysSéguret Your answer seems to be saying that changing the reputation in this way is the end of Stack Overflow as we know it, because previously reputation was meaningful, and now it won't be. I don't see how that is the case. Questions always formed part of reputation, and reputation always represented "how much the community trusted you". It has never been a score of "problem-solving ability", but a good problem-solving ability is one of the ways to gain it, both before and after this change. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 14:28 | comment | added | Cris Luengo | I get way more upvotes on easy answers to stupid questions than on detailed answers to hard questions. The more work I need to put into an answer, the more knowledge it displays, the less reputation I will gain from it. Thus, rep does not display knowledge. It displays how quickly you answer a new, easy question. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 14:15 | comment | added | Denys Séguret | @IMSoP Do you refer to my answer ? Then you read something that wasn't here at all. I never pretended that "votes on questions are so easy to acquire as to be meaningless". Votes on question aren't easy to acquire at all. But they provide little relevance to the question of technical reputation, and shouldn't have to. And yes I've already asserted that questions should not have any impact on reputation (also in order to make it less painful to have her/his question closed or badly received, especially for newcomers, and to make them focus on the problem of getting an answer, not reputation) | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 13:24 | comment | added | IMSoP | This entire rant only makes sense if you take as a given that votes on questions are so easy to acquire as to be meaningless, and if that's the case, the system was already broken anyway, because it already rewarded those questions. If upvotes on questions have become "a measure of the traffic we build" that's already a big problem, regardless of how they interact with reputation, because they're fundamental to the design of the site. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 11:13 | history | edited | Denys Séguret | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 14, 2019 at 7:46 | comment | added | Denys Séguret | @CodeCaster I mainly get to have to hide my rep from recruiters and employers now that it's a measure of time spent, I guess. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 6:43 | comment | added | CodeCaster | Well congratulations on reaching 300K anyway. You were at 298K last night. Do you get a unicorn painting now? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 4:58 | comment | added | Daniel | @DenysSéguret, I have not been doing this as long as you, but I feel the same as you. I like the way you answered this, its what I always told those developers who will rename nameless that I disagreed whenever they said that Stack Overflow just showed employers you have a lot of time on your hands. I would love to know what kind of mindset says SO just shows employers you have too much time on your hands. What exactly does that even mean? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 3:25 | comment | added | Darrick Herwehe |
@CodyGray This has been on the reputation help page for as long as I can remember: Reputation is a rough measurement of how much the community trusts you; it is earned by convincing your peers that you know what you’re talking about. One would think that problem solving and technical abilities would be a prerequisite for convincing peers that I know what I'm talking about. I'm of mixed opinion on this change, but to pretend like reputation has always been about participation alone is rewriting history to defend unpopular changes.
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Nov 14, 2019 at 0:23 | comment | added | Bergi | @IncreasinglyIdiotic It is both. Your willingness to help others / the site, and your ability to contribute useful content (as judged by the other users). | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:49 | comment | added | adeneo | @IncreasinglyIdiotic - I'm willing to help out as a surgeon, doesn't mean I should though, seeing as I know nothing about surgery. Providing correct answers is what gives this site value. Providing a whole lot of wrong answers, even though it is contributing, doesn't really add anyhing, other than confusion. I don't think high-rep users feel that they know more because they have a higher rep, maybe some, but certainly not most, but high-rep users are probably more likely to comment and correct wrong answers. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:24 | comment | added | Bergi | @IncreasinglyIdiotic Not "smarter". Judging by the tooltip of the vote button, they just provide more helpful answers. (As in both "more answers" and "better answers"). | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:15 | comment | added | Closed as off topic | Reputation is not, and never should have been considered a "measure of our problem solving ability". In my opinion, the culture of "higher rep users are smarter than lower rep users" is one of, if not the, major problem with stack overflow. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:40 | comment | added | Mark Ransom | @fbueckert I've always thought of reputation points as a proxy for how helpful I've been to others. But answers are much more helpful than questions, so it made sense that answers would be awarded more points than questions. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:31 | comment | added | Bergi | @ErwinBrandstetter I think it's the difference between "new upvotes are worth more than old upvotes (we're paying higher now)" and "upvotes should have been worth more (we've miscalculated)". It would be weird if upvotes would count different based on age. IIRC, reputation was re-calculated on all changes to the reputation system in the past. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:25 | comment | added | adeneo | @CodyGray - I think most regular users would disagree with that first sentence. One could be highly active and contribute a lot to the site, but if it's all crap and nonsense, reputation would reflect that. Reputation is a measure for useful participation, and to be useful on a technical Q&A site, one surely needs some technical skill to be able to ask and answer questions, and as can be seen directly from the list of users with the highest rep, the more skill, the more reputation. You'd think technical knowledge, and lack thereof, would directly correlate to reputation on a site like this | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:23 | comment | added | Erwin Brandstetter | Claiming that reputation would purely be a measure of participation - like @Cody just did - doesn't make sense to me. If that was the case, we users wouldn't choose whom to award points, it would be awarded, well, for participation. That's not the case. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:21 | comment | added | Erwin Brandstetter | @DenysSéguret: Yeah, wage doesn't fit perfectly. It's more like awarded prize money for competitions by popular vote. You don't recalculate that, either. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:05 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Despite the popularity of this view, reputation was never any sort of measure of one's technical knowledge or problem-solving abilities. Aside from the fact that upvotes on questions have always been rewarded with reputation (albeit at a 1:2 ratio compared to upvotes on answers), even upvotes on answers don't necessarily indicate technical knowledge. Certainly not when you realize that downvotes don't even come close to canceling out upvotes. All reputation is and has ever been is a measure of your participation on this site, and thus familiarity with its rules, norms, and customs. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:00 | comment | added | Denys Séguret | @ErwinBrandstetter While I agree with you, just a minor point: I don't like the "wage" word because we didn't work. We didn't want reputation for the boring skill-less parts like looking at the review queue (we did these boring parts because they had to be made). We wanted reputation for the fun and interesting parts and it didn't feel like work. That's also why I don't want to gain reputation for the many question closings I did. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:52 | comment | added | Erwin Brandstetter | @Bergi: Think of bank accounts. If a company decided to re-shuffle wages (without consulting the staff) that would be an outrage (and typically not legal). But if they also recalculated everybody's bank account on this flimsy base, that would just destroy trust, basically deconstructing the money system. If wages change (based on a more reasonable process), past wages are not retroactively recalculated. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:42 | comment | added | Bergi | @ErwinBrandstetter While I disagree with the change as well, making a change and not re-calculating reputation seems unsound to me. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:23 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | The harvested reputation points are more a measure of participation than anything else. On the question side, some users have literally asked 1000s of very low quality questions (you know who you are) - essentially pollution. A few questions are downvoted, but the net result is tens of thousands of reputation points. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:23 | comment | added | Denys Séguret | @fbueckert no, it was never a good measure (which is why I built this: SkillRep - experiment in computing a skill focused reputation). But KPI are only very rarely good. It wasn't so bad though and was meant as a kind of measure as the name proves. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:18 | comment | added | fbueckert | I'm not sure reputation was ever really a good measure of your technical expertise. It can certainly be a part of it, but, mostly, reputation is a measure of activity on the site. Anything at all approaching the standards would, eventually, result in gaining rep. After you're past the initial threat of the question/answer ban, it's just a function of time spent, more or less. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:17 | history | edited | Peter Mortensen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Active reading [<http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They%27re>]. "documentation" is an uncoutable noun in this context.
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Nov 13, 2019 at 21:15 | comment | added | Marco Bonelli | I could not agree more, great answer. Also great point @ErwinBrandstetter. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:09 | history | edited | Denys Séguret | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 21:02 | comment | added | Erwin Brandstetter | The change is bad. Pulling it out of a blackbox, without consulting the user base is worse. But recalculating reputation retroactively is a huge break of trust. A falsification of history. Deceit. You can tell I am not happy with this. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:44 | history | answered | Denys Séguret | CC BY-SA 4.0 |