Timeline for Upvotes on questions will now be worth the same as upvotes on answers
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
202 events
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Jun 20, 2022 at 9:48 | comment | added | Yogi | This rule change has created many high rep idiots. I just encountered another today who, after 12 years on SO, has a 50k reputation built entirely on asking lots of questions, but who answers almost none. There should at least be a limit on how many reps a user can earn by asking mostly questions. | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 4:40 | comment | added | ObscurusLux | what i meant was it was something new for me | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 4:38 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | No, it's been that way forever, @JackJohnson. | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 3:55 | comment | added | ObscurusLux | well, that's a new thing | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 3:44 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Yes, because people disagree with the change, @JackJohnson. That's what downvotes indicate on the Meta site. There is no reputation here, so downvotes don't "cost" anything. (Although I have plenty of upvoted posts, too.) | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 3:18 | comment | added | ObscurusLux | The question got minus 508 point | |
Feb 2, 2021 at 1:25 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Why would you expect the user's rep to be 1, @JackJohnson? | |
Feb 1, 2021 at 12:26 | comment | added | ObscurusLux | The first thing i thought when seeing this question was "Why is this user's rep above 1? And it' s ridiculously high as well!" | |
Dec 2, 2020 at 12:33 | comment | added | GrumpyCrouton | @CodyGray Maybe I've lost some context to my comment after a year, but I don't see how your comment relates to mine. | |
Dec 2, 2020 at 5:55 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Good thing we don't allow opinionated questions on the main site, right, @GrumpyCrouton?! | |
Dec 2, 2020 at 5:55 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @expressjs123 Asking questions is also helping people. That's the whole point of the site. We are building a repository of questions and answers. We cannot succeed at that mission without questions. Good questions have value. | |
Dec 1, 2020 at 12:51 | comment | added | user14520680 | So "not sure" is now worth the same as "helping people"? Helping people is voluntary whereas a lot of questions are asked by people not knowledgeable about the subject... now if a question gets one upvote and four downvotes the author still nets +2 rep | |
Apr 25, 2020 at 22:44 | comment | added | TheTechRobo the Nerd | Why so many dislikes? It's a terrible change but why shoot the messenger? | |
Dec 12, 2019 at 23:50 | history | edited | RobMod |
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Dec 11, 2019 at 22:44 | comment | added | Thomas Weller | "now" - "soon" - whatever: has the recalculation happened or did someone cause an integer overflow? | |
Dec 11, 2019 at 21:41 | comment | added | GrumpyCrouton | This question, which currently sits at a net -500 votes (419 up, 919 down), would net the asker about +2.3k reputation (ignoring daily limits), despite it being received obviously not very well. Before, it would have netted just +250 reputation, barely enough to even have to ignore daily limits in my comparison. | |
Dec 11, 2019 at 14:00 | comment | added | Szaman | this makes no sense for reasons stated in many answers below. i will never upvote a question again. | |
Dec 9, 2019 at 13:18 | comment | added | Christopher Ransom | How stupid is this? I have no problem with SE throwing away 10 points to those "askers". But why don't you just consider awarding like +20 points for the answerers at the same time? | |
Dec 9, 2019 at 1:24 | comment | added | ישו אוהב אותך | @clickbait: That's a good and bad news in one package for you. For me, this change makes my rep from my 1k answer is not worthy enough at the face of 100 question user. See data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/823140/… . I guess I need to make more questions to boost up my rep. | |
Dec 8, 2019 at 7:49 | answer | added | Vinay | timeline score: 6 | |
Dec 5, 2019 at 21:35 | answer | added | Ben Carp | timeline score: 7 | |
Dec 4, 2019 at 19:12 | comment | added | Travis J | Next, let's make question downvotes cost the same as answer downvotes and calculate that retroactively as well! | |
Dec 4, 2019 at 2:40 | comment | added | clickbait | Because of this change, I have 2k rep now, and I can't gain any more rep from editing. I failed to maximize my rep potential | |
Dec 3, 2019 at 14:01 | comment | added | Tarto | Oh god ... Now, we succeeded in bringing the more annoying mods right on SO :( | |
Dec 2, 2019 at 14:30 | comment | added | Display Name | -1 for "Those of you who suffer from banner blindness" - perhaps you should put less banners with useless information if you want people to notice them and not ignore them | |
Dec 1, 2019 at 21:49 | comment | added | Kyle Delaney | @ChristopherRucinski - Since there was no numeric notification like there is for the points you get for new upvotes etc., I have no idea what the actual amount of the increase was. I had just been paying some amount of attention to my score so I knew that I had suddenly gone from far below 4000 to far above 4000. And of course I knew there's no way I could've overtaken my coworker except for a sudden change like this. I see you and I have similar rep so maybe we could compete too :P | |
Dec 1, 2019 at 18:58 | comment | added | Christopher Rucinski | @KyleDelaney how did you become aware of the point increase. I dont remember point total at the start of November, but I also don't remember getting a points increase at all. So do you know how much and when you got it? | |
Dec 1, 2019 at 2:56 | answer | added | TheTechRobo the Nerd | timeline score: -12 | |
Nov 29, 2019 at 21:02 | comment | added | Kyle Delaney | I've been competing for rep with my coworker and he overtook me a while ago but this change catapulted me ahead of him so thank you :) | |
Nov 29, 2019 at 14:02 | comment | added | Phantômaxx | I'm afraid this will lead to have an ever growing number of (potentially bad) questions and an ever diminishing people willing to answer (there's way much more effort in answering than in asking!). To avoid this, why not doubling the answer value accordingly? Or, at least let the upvoter choose to vote +5, +10 or even +20 (why not, if it is a really great question?). | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 20:52 | answer | added | dpant | timeline score: 7 | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:34 | comment | added | Criticizing Israel not allowed | @CharonX I see you still have not encountered a business. | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 11:32 | comment | added | CharonX | @user253751 Well, in the short term they might not care, but by alienating core users (i.e. the users that do the grunt work by e.g. moderating, editing, flagging, and especially answering) they hamper the future of the site network (e.g. due to a decrease in question & answer quality) resulting in less traffic, which in turn means less revenue from ad views and subscriptions... | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 10:47 | comment | added | Criticizing Israel not allowed | @CharonX Why would Stack Overflow care whether the community is happy? What they care about is ad views, and Teams subscriptions. Nothing more. | |
Nov 26, 2019 at 8:19 | comment | added | CharonX | @CodyGray So, I guess you'll just let this stand and ignore that the community is indeed not happy with the changes? | |
Nov 25, 2019 at 16:10 | answer | added | CharonX | timeline score: 15 | |
Nov 22, 2019 at 21:51 | comment | added | Christopher Rucinski | @CodyGray are the retroactive changes all finished? | |
Nov 22, 2019 at 16:30 | comment | added | Error - Syntactical Remorse | I am very disheartened by this change. Recently I have seen a lot of bad questions that I would downvote (as would others) only to have a single person upvote (because they feel bad) to grant this extremely poorly written question reputation. It sucks. Here are questions from a users who wants to get spoon fed code and provides no meaningful work on their own, only to ultimately gain reputation. And to be honest @CodyGray it is pretty damn apparent that the mods and staff of SO didn't represent the community with this decision, looking at the votes in this thread along with all your comments. | |
Nov 21, 2019 at 13:35 | comment | added | kockburn | Since SO is randomely doing unpopular things, can we also double the value on answers? | |
Nov 21, 2019 at 13:33 | comment | added | Qix - MONICA WAS MISTREATED | Does anyone at StackOverflow actually use StackOverflow anymore? Or did they all leave? | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 17:39 | answer | added | vgru | timeline score: 12 | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 13:18 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @Andreas I kind of think that Q&A is more or less the same like P&S (problem and solution) and since every good solution must already contain the problem it solves in it, it's not so difficult to extract the problem part from the solution and add a question mark after it? Coming up with problems that are worthwhile to solve on your own may be harder though. | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 13:15 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @Andreas "I doubt you can write a good question that fast." I probably depends. Writing good questions in your sense (i.e. no duplicates) was probably much easier in the old days, when SO was young. What I meant is that it's relatively easy to pose a question if a good answer is already existing. Just ask for the answer to the problem that the answer is answering. Just look at all those highly upvoted questions, they are mostly not showing much research, but they are useful to others because they have the same problem. | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 12:05 | comment | added | Andreas | @Trilarion I doubt you can write a good question that fast. With good question I mean: no follow up questions, all tags correct, enough examples that it's easy to see what is asked, on or more attempts, it can't be a "duplicate", and that you know what you ask so that it's not a xy question. I always try to make my questions as good as possible but because of that it can take hours or days because as you write the question you start noticing stuff that has not been tried or other ways around it. | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 11:47 | answer | added | Your Common Sense | timeline score: 21 | |
Nov 20, 2019 at 3:00 | answer | added | Serg M Ten | timeline score: -11 | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 20:48 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | It was asked to be kept private, @eis, so sharing it was a major violation of trust, on the order of the things that we’ve complained about staff doing. Staff and mods were still discussing this, trying to agree on what would be best for our communities, with mods as community representatives. Short-circuiting that discussion before it had been completed makes it difficult to expect to have that opportunity again next time. See also comments here | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 20:35 | comment | added | eis | "Unfortunately, a less-than-ethical member of the larger Stack Exchange moderator community leaked this private communication to the public"... I missed why this was unfortunate. Could you explain why this should've been kept from the public? or is it explained somewhere? | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 16:51 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @ChristopherRucinski "This page should be taken with a grain of salt." Sure. But then SO is already doing that. Since a year or so they regularly get negative feedback. In a way they seem to be very consistent in their actions. | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 16:47 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @CodyGray "The solution to that is more downvoting of lazy questions." I don't think this will happen realistically. If the fix is to have to clean up even more thoroughly, maybe the action was not the right one. | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 16:44 | comment | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | @Andreas "I find it way harder to write a question than a answer." I thought a bit about it and I would say that it depends. Give me a good answer and I'll need mere seconds to write a question suitable for that answer ("How to do X?", "Why is Y?", "What is the solution to Z?"). It's relatively simple and we do not require that much prior research anymore. However, it usually is the other way around, so coming up with good questions first might be a bit harder. It might be very hard now, where the knowledge base is kind of saturated already. Questions nowadays aren't that useful anymore. | |
Nov 19, 2019 at 8:46 | comment | added | Sayse | @CodyGray - Thats true but then its full circle because then we're accused of not being nice | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 21:36 | comment | added | Nathan Hughes | absolutely, I'm trying to do my share of that. | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 21:24 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @Nathan The solution to that is more downvoting of lazy questions. | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 21:15 | comment | added | Nathan Hughes | We have some users who derive practically all their rep from asking lazy questions, and this change doubles their rep. nice move guys. | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 18:46 | answer | added | Fr0zenFyr | timeline score: -4 | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 17:27 | answer | added | J... | timeline score: 26 | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 16:39 | comment | added | Shiania White | While the very negative score of this post might make it seem the change is not appreciated, the new reputation system is giving the poster a net benefit, so clearly people like this post! | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 13:24 | comment | added | Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні | Ooooh! Participation trophies! | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 10:06 | comment | added | Markus Kauppinen | @BitShift Can't disagree. So I won't. :) | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 8:34 | comment | added | BitShift | @Markus Kauppinen sure, and maybe that's a problem. However now we step into very subjective topic: what is a good question? If the question adds value to the community, then does it matter if it was trivial, or that no self-research had occured? I understand that SO shouldn't be a free for all, but it is still a repository of questions that are highly situation-specific and intended for people to learn without wading through poorly worded library documentation. It just seems that if many SO users had their way, that no questions would ever be asked. | |
Nov 18, 2019 at 8:18 | comment | added | Markus Kauppinen | @BitShift "...now that exclusive club is being measured against those that ask good questions." Not necessarily good, but highly upvoted. There are a lot of (*)"bad" highly upvoted question here. (*trivial, lazy, no own research etc.) | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 22:00 | answer | added | anatolyg | timeline score: 13 | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 14:39 | answer | added | K Man | timeline score: -6 | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 10:55 | comment | added | Christopher Rucinski | @CodyGray this question and most answers don't include a representational sample of the community. It represents the high rep users. I'm not saying anyone is saying its not. Just pull a stastical analysis of this page and see. It's not representational. This page should be taken with a grain of salt. I would imagine that the SO team has put in more effort to get a representational understanding of the community than this question has | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 10:48 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | The community includes everyone; no one is saying it doesn't. What do you expect should be done about the fact that this page does not include everyone, @Christopher? People post because they have an opinion and they care about the site. That's...kind of the whole point of this question. Apparently you have an opinion, too. Please post an answer. | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 10:42 | comment | added | Christopher Rucinski | @CodyGray never talked about a conspiracy. Don't know where that came from. The community includes many more people that are not represented here. And look at the pushback mostly from high-rep users. Why would they post. I remember being a low rep users. What I am telling you is that this page does not represent the community. It represents the view of high rep users. That is vastly different. | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 10:33 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @Christopher Anyone who wants is free to post an answer containing their feedback. It is not limited to high-rep users. In fact, several answers have been posted by users with small amounts of reputation. There is no conspiracy afoot here. High-rep users are the ones with the most invested in this community. It makes sense that they're the ones who check the site most regularly, have the strongest opinions, and take the time to post answers. | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 10:15 | comment | added | Christopher Rucinski | for talk of "community", I only see answers from high rep users. There is more to the "community" than high rep users | |
Nov 17, 2019 at 3:49 | vote | accept | Cody GrayMod | ||
Nov 17, 2019 at 3:49 | |||||
Nov 16, 2019 at 13:48 | comment | added | BitShift | @joshmcode, except this isn't a corporate site. This isn't even a meritocracy, it's a shared community with a flat structure. The points are a trust system, not a paycheck. Also your analogy is incorrect coz Steve Jobs. The man who asked the questions and yet knew precisely f%$k all about computing. | |
Nov 16, 2019 at 13:42 | comment | added | BitShift | I find these comments quite troubling. It seems there are those in the community that value the answer as a bargaining chip. All they have are the answers they give and now that exclusive club is being measured against those that ask good questions. I would like to point out that the only reason you get to rise to the top of the point system is because someone else asked the question. They also share in the priviledge of your knowledge. For those talking about 'democracy': yeh but when the site is evidently over-flowing with elitism, maybe democracy is the last thing we need. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 23:33 | comment | added | developer_hatch | I thought the site was like a democracy not like a tyranny of a few... | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 23:25 | answer | added | Douglas Reid | timeline score: 2 | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 19:38 | answer | added | LittleBobbyTables - Au Revoir | timeline score: 15 | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 19:17 | comment | added | mlvljr | Cries "Am a rich maahn now!!" -- after receiving a 1.1K rep bump for some trivial Qs from 10 years ago. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 16:35 | comment | added | Nick Cardoso | Now a question needs to get a -5 score to offset just a +1 vote reputation change. This just makes things even easier for the voting fraud rings to game the system. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 14:05 | comment | added | Jeroen | @adeneo I would argue that a wiseman has a lot more questions then answers. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 12:14 | comment | added | Niklesh Raut | Up-voting reputation should be in decrease subsequently and also there should be limit for gaining reputation on any question or answer, by this only old users will not get benefited as usual, it gives change to new users to get more reputation than old users. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 10:44 | comment | added | allo | The karma is not about the worth of your knowledge. You don't get karma because your answer proves that you know a lot. You get karma, because you improve the knowledge base. And asking a well-received question prompts for good answers, what helps to improve the knowledge base. Just stop assuming, that karma is a system to reward your knowledge and prove your self-worth. It is a system to count positive engagement. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 9:21 | comment | added | Ismael Miguel | I see why they made this into a banner and a blog post, instead of a post in meta.stackexchange.com : they knew we wouldn't like it, and we can't downvote blog posts into oblivion. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 8:44 | comment | added | Ocaso Protal | @CodyGray I don't think that that hint is the cause for a constuctive discussion. I think the real reason for a constructive discussion is that you communicate a lot in this topic. It is not a fire and forget announcement like some others here or on MSO lately. You (and others like Yaakov or Shog) understand that communication is the key, even if you can't change the decission your announcement is about. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 8:19 | answer | added | Gottfried Lesigang | timeline score: 36 | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 7:06 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | If you don't know what it's referring to, @Yvette, then feel free to ignore it. Unfortunately, there are people who do know what it is referring to, and the message is intended for them. (You could become one of these people with a few selected Google keywords, but...don't?) I made a very intentional decision to confront that issue head-on as part of the announcement, which I believe was a good choice, considering I have only seen one comment referring to it, which was promptly deleted. Everyone is doing a fantastic job of staying constructive and on-topic, which I very much appreciate. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 6:29 | comment | added | user3956566 |
Unfortunately, a less-than-ethical member of the larger Stack Exchange moderator community leaked this private communication to the public, and did so in a rather sensationalist way. I don't know what this is referring to or if it is relevant to the question.
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Nov 15, 2019 at 4:36 | comment | added | the default. | I feel like Stack Exchange is trying to divert our attention from Monica-related issues by ruining everything else at this point. | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 2:48 | comment | added | Chuck Adams | Can the SO software at LEAST support some smart filtering of negative-voted questions then? | |
Nov 15, 2019 at 0:40 | answer | added | Bernhard Barker | timeline score: 24 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 23:42 | answer | added | Peter Cordes | timeline score: -2 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 23:13 | comment | added | scopchanov | @jpmc26, I have read it exactly as it was written. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:53 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @scopchanov I suggest that you are misreading adeneo's original comment as suggesting a general lack of knowledge when it instead refers to a lack of specific knowledge. If the asker had the knowledge, they would not need to ask. The second comment refers to trends; the bulk of questions appear to come from users with a rather large knowledge gap. This was my experience, in fact: as I gained more experience and knowledge, I have nearly ceased asking questions as I've gotten much better at finding answers. I can (and do) still self answer, though, and my questions are better as well. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:42 | comment | added | scopchanov | @jpmc26, I agree. I am only saying, that asking a question should not be always regarded as a lack of knowledge. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:32 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @scopchanov FYI, most questions receiving at least one upvote do not match your description. Most questions are (as nearly as I can deduce from reading them) the result of very little thought or effort. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:28 | comment | added | J... | It's like the SO administration have become convinced that the downvote button is broken and needs to be tested continually... what else could explain the abysmal stream of policy and innovation that seems to fill these pages of late? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:16 | comment | added | adeneo | @scopchanov - That's not at all what I wrote? The ability to transform a problem into a minimal, complete ...etc example goes for everyone, it's a requirement. My point was, when you ask a question you're lacking knowledge, hence why you ask for help, but when you answer a question, you actually have that knowledge that someone is seeking. Now which one do you think is harder to come by, the people lacking the knowledge, or the people having the knowledge, and which one of those should be awarded the most fake internet points, i.e. who would you consider "most useful" to a Q&A site? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 22:04 | answer | added | jpmc26 | timeline score: 42 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 21:53 | comment | added | jpmc26 | "As with far too many events of late, this change has been accompanied by a fair amount of drama." Mandatory XKCD Also relevant XKCD Also, that statement is pretty clearly a "subtle put-down," as the CoC terms it. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 21:39 | comment | added | scopchanov | @adeneo, do you really call the ability to transform a problem emerging in the code of a real-world project into a minimal, complete and verifiable example "lack of knowledge"? Or there has never been a well educated, expirienced developer, who is suffering from poorly documented API and needs help figuring out the cause of a particular strange behaviour? Furthermore, in a numerous of occasions in the real life I was able to find a mistake made by people with a far more experience than me (call it luck), with them still being superior regarding their understanding of the matter. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 21:38 | comment | added | joshmcode | Imagine if this same idea was put into a corporate pay structure. Senior people (who know a lot) are paid at some dollar amount because of their knowledge. People with less knowledge (less senior people) are paid less because they know less. As they learn more, they are paid more, in general. This would be like giving all less-senior persons the same pay as senior staff... which is like slapping the senior people in the face e.g. your extra knowledge is worthless. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 19:58 | comment | added | manveti | @haldo Exactly what I'd expect for a vampire account -- most crap questions will have several downvotes but a few pity/"me too" upvotes, staying around neutral rep before, but being major rep gains now. For example, a +2/-5 question used to be worth 0 rep, now it's worth +10. Or this question (currently +152/-359), were rep counted on meta, would change from +42 to +802, almost 20x as much. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 19:00 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @MonkeyZeus I'm not sure how leading with a joke does anything to harm good will. The point is that the policy has already been announced, you've all surely seen it, so this isn't really an announcement. It's a forum for those affected to share their feedback, including criticism. I'm going to skip the giant strawman in your second sentence. There's no evidence SO is moving away from quality, and I certainly am not. Yes, the influx of crap is a huge problem. However, reducing rep gain from questions did nothing to address that problem. It is not the ploy you accuse it of being. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 18:47 | comment | added | MonkeyZeus | Not sure if you're aware but opening your post with "Those of you who suffer from banner blindness may not have noticed the announcement" does not harbor good will. Aside from the obvious trudge of Stack Overflow moving away from quality and pushing for quantity why don't you just remove all moderation tools. The influx of crap is already outpacing any crowdsource hours that anyone puts in but then again maybe this is a ploy to propel newbies into these once prestigious designations of moderation given that exoduses keep happening. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 18:30 | comment | added | haldo | I've just seen one (vampire) account go from ~2k a few days ago to >20k today (~1.2k questions). How is that possible? I would have expected it to double, not go 10 fold! At least we know that bumping rep does actually work! Doubling the answer rep score would create mod powers for those users that actually care about the site, rather than users that only want answers to their questions IMO. This is another disappointing announcement | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 18:07 | answer | added | James | timeline score: 11 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 18:07 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | It's part of being more inclusive. Actual knowledge is secondary. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 17:41 | answer | added | yhyrcanus | timeline score: 12 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 17:24 | comment | added | Felipe Alameda A | 83.1% of unanswered questions last week and still believing that such a tragedy for a Q&A site can be mitigated by increasing the number of questions rewarding those who ask with "reputation". Obviously, the strategy behind this decision is purely commercial and confirms that StackOverlow has long ceased to be THE site to seek technical answers. Many results on Google but very few really useful. I have never asked a question and I stopped answering them years ago. I still check the site for interesting answers, more scarce every day unfortunately. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 16:32 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | @TDG: Only the association bonus is given by the system itself. There is on-going inflation in the system, whether question upvotes are valued at +5 or +10, depending on how you look at it (worsened by voting rings and deliberate posting of low-quality questions (that get upvotes)) | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 16:11 | comment | added | TylerH | @WillNess You weren't really using upvotes correctly if you were applying them based on "this user should earn 5 rep but not 10 rep for this". | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 16:11 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | @Sayse: To be fair, Team Podcast has always been detached from the actual content or events of the site(s) (all the way back to 2008). The first series had a little bit, but not very much - boat programming (hard deleted on Stack Overflow) and Spolsky's LOGO one come to mind. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 16:07 | comment | added | Will Ness | @Herohtar yes, and as one of those people who used to upvote somewhat poor but salvageable questions as an encouragement (esp. when they got a lot of downvotes as you say) I will now actively go through all my upvotes and undo those that I find I did like that. I've already started doing it. The change to the rep system causes me to re-evaluate my voting preferences. And since they did it retroactively it only seems fair for me to redo my votes retroactively as well. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 16:00 | answer | added | Ashley Medway | timeline score: 3 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 15:56 | answer | added | Dustin Davis | timeline score: 1 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 14:39 | comment | added | Scott Hannen | @CodyGray If there was a "Jumped on the Grenade" badge you should get one. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 14:34 | comment | added | user7014451 | "...high-quality questions are just as valuable as high-quality answers...". Yes, but low-quality questions are more valuable than low-quality answers unless you lower the person's rep on down-votes. In fact, one could argue that overall, questions are more valuable than answers with this change. And to think, I've been coming here all these years for answers, not questions. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 14:08 | answer | added | vbnet3d | timeline score: 22 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 12:23 | answer | added | Michael Berry | timeline score: 82 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 12:10 | history | reopened |
Michael Berry user3484879 Stargateur DavidG meJustAndrew |
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Nov 14, 2019 at 12:04 | comment | added | Sayse | @CodyGray - Am I right in thinking that you created this post on your own merit? I only ask because my current feeling is that any feedback received here is going to be ignored by Team Podcast. Kudos to you if this is true though! | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 11:58 | history | closed |
tmaj il_raffa shad0w_wa1k3r Benoit Owen Pauling |
Needs details or clarity | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 11:35 | answer | added | treyBake | timeline score: 11 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 11:17 | answer | added | Sumurai8 | timeline score: -32 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 10:23 | comment | added | Martin James | "OK, we succeeded in getting the more annoying mods and users to resign, but what about the remaining high-rep users who insist on downvoting and closing, so hitting ad stats? They're mostly highly skilled and experienced developers who are,politically aware'' ... "Hey! I know how we can really piss them off while looking good - we can't take their rep, but we can devalue it!" | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 10:15 | review | Close votes | |||
Nov 14, 2019 at 12:00 | |||||
Nov 14, 2019 at 10:14 | comment | added | jcesarmobile | I went down from 29xx to 33xx in the ranking because I answer a lot but barely ask. Totally unfair, should apply to new questions only | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 10:05 | answer | added | NoDataDumpNoContribution | timeline score: 40 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:42 | answer | added | Temani Afif | timeline score: 67 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:41 | answer | added | DavidW | timeline score: 11 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:40 | comment | added | user1725145 | @Larnu your opinion. Not everyone is as confident as perhaps you assume them to be (eg may not have good communication skills). Also, if their own problems are someone else's problems, then that's good enough, they've shared something useful. As an aside, I don't like this change, which looks like a blatant attempt to raise the falling post numbers, but hey, codidact when all's said and done (wonder how long this comment will last...) | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:34 | comment | added | Thom A | Provided answers is also a great way of learning, @user1725145 , and you try to solve problems that aren't your own. Only ever asking questions (over a 1,000 of them), to me, would suggest the OP is only concerned on their own problems. Yes, those questions have definitely helped others, but after 1,000+ questions you would expect someone to be competent enough to answer questions as well :) | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:29 | answer | added | Mena | timeline score: 14 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:26 | comment | added | user1725145 | @Larnu - why selfish? Maybe they are learning. Maybe their questions have helped others searching. Maybe they are not confident enough of their skills to post answers. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 9:07 | comment | added | Thom A | Wow, @wim, that is an impressive, but also disappointing (selfish) statistic. 1,186 questions, and only 1 answer. One would hope that someone with that many questions had contributed to others more than once at least. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 8:24 | comment | added | Jorge Leitao | When I though that SO was about to stop doing bad changes and just stand still, you guys never stop surprising me! | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 8:06 | comment | added | Ocaso Protal | I want to commend the Stack Exchange employees both for soliciting feedback from moderators and for listening to that feedback. Does that mean that the proposed change was even worse? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 8:03 | comment | added | BugFinder | We seem to be incredibly worried about keeping a newb, and not retaining people who answer | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 7:22 | answer | added | Zohar Peled | timeline score: 61 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 5:46 | answer | added | Abhishek Gurjar | timeline score: 9 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 5:19 | comment | added | iBug | Now my hard-earned reputation point from answering seems to worth less than it used to be... :) | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 5:19 | comment | added | Praveen | As someone who rarely comments on meta, but has read much of what has been happening, I just wish you'd asked the opinions of the user community (and not just the moderators) before rolling out the change, given how everyone feels right now... People who are downvoting may even have warmed up to the idea. You say that the change was made because data suggested it: it would have been nice to be able to see this data, and why it justifies the change. I like to think we're a community that can change our opinions when presented with evidence to the contrary. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 3:48 | comment | added | NelsonGon | With so many questions showing no minimal effort and simply asking yet still getting upvotes, this is rather an unneeded change. | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 3:06 | comment | added | Selcuk | @jmoerdyk Isn't that the whole point? Sweeping it under the rug until everyone forgets? | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 3:01 | answer | added | jw_ | timeline score: -22 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 1:22 | answer | added | Vaccano | timeline score: 47 | |
Nov 14, 2019 at 0:45 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 23:47 | comment | added | mario | @CodyGray TBH, I still can't wrap my head around it. If the previous +5 has only advantaged the persistent low quality posters, then how is +10 going to benefit the few who spend more effort (but with fewer questions)? Is the rep change by itself going to encourage the right user base? Is the Q+A rep equality going to change voting preferences enough? (I still feel this needs more elaboration, less focus on new users.) | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:43 | answer | added | wim | timeline score: 34 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:32 | comment | added | jmoerdyk | @CodyGray I'm sure you're caught in the middle of things here, but I couldn't help but notice who authored the blog introducing this change. It seems like SO in general is trying to continue on like it's business as usual with a blitz of blog posts and podcasts. There are much more important topics that need to be addressed and not swept under the rug, most importantly the breach of trust recent events have created. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:02 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @mario Everyone seems to be missing it, but I have provided a "meaty" justification for the change here, and linked to that in the question above. I had originally intended to provide that explanation as part of this question/announcement, but zero298 scooped me in asking his question first. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 23:00 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 22:59 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @jmoerdyk Sorry, I will try and revise the phrasing on that. I'm not asking you to ignore other events that have actually taken place. Although that would be ideal, I realize it is not realistic and perhaps not even sensible. I was intending merely to talk about the "leaked" versions of this proposal that are circulating around on the Internet, with some dubious information. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:47 | comment | added | R. Richards | This should coincide with a reinstatement of the 3 close votes closes/holds a question. And, make that retroactive; just close those questions outright. All the accounts using sock puppets (whose rep has possibly doubled today) might lose much of that undeserved rep SO has doled out. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:36 | comment | added | jmoerdyk | Wow, some nerve asking us to ignore the fact that another decision was made with limited feedback from the larger community feedback and having the nerve to ask us to ignore the drama. Your priorities are out of whack. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:34 | comment | added | hatchet - done with SOverflow | More questions = more page views. More important now than curating good answers. I fear stackexchange is swirling the bowl thanks to a radically different vision being forced down by the CORP. If you still care about your ranking, and you concentrate on giving good answers, consider this the same as cutting the value of all your answers in half. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:34 | comment | added | mario | The rationale behind this change seems a bit shallow. Maybe we could get more than one or two euphemisms from the decision making process? | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:33 | comment | added | Dalija Prasnikar Mod | I just cannot figure out how can anyone that has spent more than five minutes moderating this site come to the conclusion that increasing reputation for the questions will actually result with more quality questions being asked. I am genuinely baffled. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:12 | answer | added | Dalija PrasnikarMod | timeline score: 494 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:12 | answer | added | meJustAndrew | timeline score: 89 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:04 | answer | added | yivi | timeline score: 3 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:03 | answer | added | DharmanMod | timeline score: 91 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:00 | answer | added | Thom A | timeline score: 98 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 22:00 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 21:57 | comment | added | Unihedron | While that they are functionally distinct, they are 1. both unlocked at 125 rep, 2. presented with the advice to "use them wisely" and "should be reserved for extreme cases" neither of which is a light tone, and as I'd reiterate from before, discourages it outright. as if it's not enough, the buttons look the same, and 3. clicking on either will deliver the same "don't click this" message that pops up. Voting to close does have a cost, as close votes are not finite, you're using up 2% of your VTC battery a day. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:50 | comment | added | Herohtar | @Unihedron I'm talking about questions, not answers, and as stated in the post above, downvoting questions is free. Additionally, voting to close does not have any negative cost. There are pretty clear guidelines on what constitutes a well-asked question, so at the very least, there should be little question about whether to vote to close something. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:46 | comment | added | Unihedron | @Herohtar "in cases where they should" is a subjective statement and it makes it seem like a moral judgement when it isn't. The platform actively discourages downvoting by making it cost rep to downvote answers - to say that users should downvote and is doing wrong by not downvoting is extremely insincere, when the platform itself gives the message that you rarely ever should. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:45 | comment | added | manveti | But some of us only post answers and didn't just have our rep doubled, so we don't yet have close vote privileges, and now the relative weight of our downvotes just got cut in half... | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:43 | comment | added | Herohtar | @CodyGray The problem is, people don't downvote -- or even vote to close -- in cases where they should, and it seems to happen even less with all the recent push to be "nice". And people hand out upvotes just to "counter" a negative score on a question, which with this rep change rewards the poster even more than it previously did. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:40 | comment | added | Unihedron | Please don't blame users for not downvoting when downvoting is a privilege that you have to unlock and costs more rep than upvoting. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:40 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Don’t look now, @Herohtar, but even if we all just sat around doing nothing, there would be users being rewarded for posting bad content. That’s an unfortunate side-effect of an imperfect content rating system. Some people will upvote any darn thing; some people never downvote. The real solution to the problem you highlight is not fiddling with the rep weights. It’s downvoting and removing the content that doesn’t meet our quality standards. Easier said than done, of course. But gonna need to be done no matter what we do about points. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:37 | comment | added | Bergi | @wim Recalculations always take the daily 200-cap into account. It's a re-calculation taking the entire history into account, not just "count question upvotes, multiply by 5, add to current reputation". It's the same recalculation that happens e.g. if old votes are removed because of deleted users - believe me, I've tried often enough to circumvent the cap :-) | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:33 | comment | added | Herohtar | "The net effect will be to reward the contributions of everyone, including users who have bad questions that still exist on the site". Fixed that for you. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:31 | comment | added | Joe W | It would be interesting to see how much rep people are getting from this at the top end. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:13 | comment | added | Tim Lewis |
My only complaint with this is the reputation losses/gains in the top bar on Stackoverflow has not been showing changes; I have seen my rep change in the last few hours, but haven't been able to see the source unless a comment is also left (or I go digging). TLDR: The realtime rep change notifications aren't working currently. Edit: Just had an answer accepted, don't see the +15
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Nov 13, 2019 at 21:11 | comment | added | Sayse | It appears that someone (Mage Xy) as already created a SEDE Query to show the reputation change for a user | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:09 | comment | added | John Dvorak | "Those of you who suffer from banner blindness may not have noticed the announcement:" - we had to dismiss it several times, so no worries there. And then there's that leak thing. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:07 | answer | added | Josh Crozier | timeline score: 150 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 21:05 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 236 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:59 | answer | added | Scott Hannen | timeline score: 19 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:56 | comment | added | Stephen | Most of my reputation has come from question asking so far. But honestly I think the 5/10 split was fair: it's harder and less gratifying to write an answer, and the question-asker usually has some real-world benefit to getting their question answered as well. Questions definitely have a lot of value, but I think answers have even more value. This is not a horrible change, but I'm a little unsure whether it's the right one. Have there not been enough high-quality questions? | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:49 | answer | added | S.S. Anne | timeline score: 31 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:47 | answer | added | Sayse | timeline score: 158 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:46 | answer | added | Erik A | timeline score: 178 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:44 | answer | added | Denys Séguret | timeline score: 704 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:36 | answer | added | President James K. Polk | timeline score: 20 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:34 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 20:20 | answer | added | Ansgar Wiechers | timeline score: 302 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:18 | answer | added | CodeCaster | timeline score: 87 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:09 | comment | added | adeneo | @CodyGray - A fool can ask more questions than a wise man can answer, and at the end of the day SE still needs people that actually knows the answers to the questions, more than they do fools. My opinion is that answers should be valued higher than questions, and downvotes should count the same as upvotes, but what do I know, I've never really asked a single question? | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:03 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @adeneo A knowledge base cannot exist without high-quality questions to solicit good answers. The reputation system isn't valuing knowledge at all. Rather, it is valuing your contributions to the Stack Overflow knowledge base (and thus serves as an indirect proxy for your familiarity and experience with this platform). The fundamental thought behind this policy is that good questions are a net positive contribution to the Stack Overflow knowledge base. Content that is not good can and should continue to be signaled by downvotes, whether questions or answers. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 20:02 | answer | added | Culyx | timeline score: -27 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:57 | answer | added | wim | timeline score: 873 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:55 | comment | added | adeneo | So valuing "lack of knowledge" the same as "actual knowledge" seemed like a good idea? I don't really care about the changes, but seems more like the goal is to get more questions, and so more content, not necessarily more good content in the form of good answers? This surely will benefit some of the top users, that early on have asked and answered their own questions on basic issues, with thousands of upvotes over the years. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:54 | answer | added | George Stocker | timeline score: 17 | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:52 | history | edited | Cody GrayMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 19:52 | comment | added | ekhumoro | My fervent opposition to this change has nothing to do with the fact that I have only ever asked one question on SO. | |
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Nov 13, 2019 at 19:44 | comment | added | Andreas | I actually agree with this. Perhaps not the retroactive. But then again why should they not be same values as new upvotes. I find it way harder to write a question than a answer. And usually answers get far more upvotes than questions that can take up to hours to write good. A simple 5 min answer can get more points than it actually should in just a few minutes. | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:41 | comment | added | yivi | @Patrice The score for questions won't be doubling. Just the reputation gained by the askers because of the upvotes. The score will remain the same. The only real change is that there will be more users with more reputation. Some privileges (such as upvoting), will be awarded much sooner, which I guess can in turn can feed into this mechanic as well... | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:39 | comment | added | Andreas | Not that I actually care but, since the score was 10 then got lowered to 5 and now back up to 10 again. What happens to those points earned 2007-2010 that was worth 10, will they be 15 when this recalculation is done? | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:38 | comment | added | Denys Séguret | At this point I'm more and more surprised that we still come to SO. This might not last long, though. I feel so betrayed... | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:33 | comment | added | Patrice | We already have newbies complaining about these simple questions with hundreds of upvotes. Not very welcoming to double the score of these, forcing the poor new stackoverflowers to work even harder to catch up! | |
Nov 13, 2019 at 19:29 | history | asked | Cody GrayMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |