Timeline for Not an answer flag declined even though they were asking a new question
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
24 events
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Jul 23, 2019 at 15:37 | comment | added | Servy | @TylerH How is it a separate issue that a moderator deleted an answer by claiming that it's not an answer when it isn't, preventing anyone who thinks it is an answer from undeleting it? Martijn can't change the fact that they're a moderator, and thus they're acting as a moderator when they do things, and are not a 20k user. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:34 | comment | added | TylerH | @Servy I wouldn't buy that argument either. Luckily that's not the argument I gave. Martijn thought the answer was low quality. Users with 20k rep can vote to delete answers once they're at a sufficiently negative score. Martijn has more than 20k rep and cast the third of three required votes. The only issue here is that you aren't able to cast an undelete vote because Martijn is also a moderator and mod-deleted answers can't be undelete-voted by normal users. So, do you wish to undelete this answer? If so, that's a separate issue from whether the answer is NAA or not. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:30 | comment | added | Servy | @TylerH I don't really buy the argument that because moderators are allowed to deleted posts that they're free to delete whatever they want for any reason. That seems like a rather unreasonable interpretation of the phrase "moderator votes are binding". The rules state what types of posts should be deleted. That "a moderator thinks it isn't a good answer" isn't described as meriting deletion doesn't mean it's okay to delete answers for that reason. You need a reason to delete an answer, not a reason to not delete an answer. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:28 | comment | added | Servy | @MartijnPieters But it is providing an answer to the question, just one that you don't think is of high quality. That you (and others) keep arguing about how it's not a good answer is demonstrating that it is an answer to the question. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:28 | comment | added | TylerH | @Servy I don't have anything specific, but the fact that it isn't expressly prohibited by rules, happens all the time and hasn't been decided against by CMs or the community, and is covered in powers & duties put forth by Jeff such as "Moderator votes are binding." and "culling some of the worst rated posts in various dimensions." in stackoverflow.blog/2009/05/18/a-theory-of-moderation indicate it's within the scope of the mod position to do so. At any rate, this instance is really moot as Martijn was only the 3rd person to cast a delete vote on an answer that was already at -3 score. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:23 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters Mod | @Servy: Ah, perhaps there is a terminology issue here then. The term answer can reference two distinct concepts: an 'answer post' (distinct from 'question posts' and 'comments' and other content types), and 'answering the question'. I was referring to the former meaning, not the latter. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:15 | comment | added | Servy | @TylerH Do you have some citation that moderators are allowed to delete answers based on their technical merits just because they think they're not good answers? Obviously they can use their mod powers on posts that aren't flagged (if a post requires moderation action), that's not in dispute. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:14 | comment | added | Servy | @MartijnPieters You're the one asserting it's an answer, just a poor answer. So it's not ambiguous. It is an answer, and thus it's not appropriate to delete it on the grounds that it's a non answer when that's just not true. If you think it's a low quality answer, by all means, use your votes to reflect that. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:14 | comment | added | TylerH | @Servy While moderators are not expected to be able to judge answers on their quality/technical merits and then deleting them if they don't think so, they are given the power and authority to do so if they so choose. They aren't required to only use their mod powers in response to a flag. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:13 | comment | added | Servy | @RobertHarvey Moderators are not expected to be judging the quality and technical merits of answers and deleting answers that they don't think are quality answers. It's not your place to delete every answer that you don't think is helpful. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 15:04 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters Mod | @Servy: note that moderators are explicitly the exception handlers of the site. We are given the leeway to cut Gordian knots in case of ambiguous cases. This is such a case, and in my opinion as a moderator and as someone with a reasonable level of SQL experience, it was posted as a question. Hence my assertion: sorry, no, this was a new question. And I'm going to leave the discussion with that, this has now wasted way, way too much time. Even if treated as an answer, it is a pretty crappy answer anyway and not worth undeleting when there are much better answers there. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:52 | comment | added | Robert Harvey Mod | @Script47: No, I don't think so. There's a "threshold effect" to flags; to justify undeletion, the material would have to "make the internet better," and I'm not convinced at all that's the case here. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:50 | comment | added | Script47 | @RobertHarvey I think that's Servy's point, it, not being a "not a great answer" implies is is an answer, voting should used here. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:49 | comment | added | Robert Harvey Mod | @Servy: Despite your "not not an answer answer" assertion, it's still not a great answer. Bare code, with no explanation provided. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:32 | comment | added | Servy | @MartijnPieters So it's okay for you to be glib, just not for anyone else? Why is that? If you want to keep this conversation on track then don't try to derail it yourself and blame me for it being derailed. Stay on topic and address the merits, and I'll be happy to do the same. That you see issues with they query doesn't mean it's not an answer. If you think it's a bad answer, then by all means, downvote it. That doesn't make it Not An Answer. Moderators are not expected use judge answers based on their quality or accuracy and delete them if they feel they're not good. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:29 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters Mod | @Servy: don't be glib please, this is not going to go anywhere at this rate. How much SQL do you know? I can see that that query has issues, such as the embedded quotes. They never properly state why they are uncertain about their interpretation, but that's already a red flag right there. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:27 | comment | added | Servy | @MartijnPieters Sorry, no, this was an answer to the question, very badly worded. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:27 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters Mod | @Servy: sorry, no, this was a new question, very badly worded. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:26 | comment | added | Servy | @MartijnPieters Like I said, even if you don't interpret it as rhetorical, asking for feedback on your answer to the question is still an answer to the question, and the request for feedback can simply be removed as unnecessary. Someone providing a solution to the same underlying problem, but with slightly different details in the specifics, doesn't make it not an answer. It's still an answer to the problem being asked about. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:24 | comment | added | Martijn Pieters Mod |
Sorry, in this case, this was not a rhetorical question. They really were asking for feedback if they had interpreted the other actual answers to implement this for their own query. The query they posted used an entirely different schema from the question subject, as well as different conditions for the CASE (using > greater than versus 3 possible compound tests).
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Jul 23, 2019 at 14:23 | comment | added | ChrisM | @servy I don't think that is correct. If it was a question saying to try something or would this work then I would agree with that. However the code that remained wasn't related to the question posed and because of that it was likely the person was asking a separate question. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:21 | comment | added | Servy | @TylerH I wouldn't be so sure. Lots of people include things like that, or "try this", or "I think this would work" or other types of qualifiers to their answer. I don't necessarily think the author was expecting someone to provide some detailed critique of their answer. But regardless, even if you don't think it was rhetorical, asking for feedback on their answer to the question still means it's an answer to the question. And of course regardless that request for feedback can be removed if it's not useful, as is the case here, and as was done here, leaving just the answer. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:17 | comment | added | TylerH | Small nitpick - I wouldn't call "Is this query correct?" in an answer a rhetorical question. I think it's a very real question expecting an answer from OP either in the form of an upvote, an accept mark, a comment, or all three. | |
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:15 | history | answered | Servy | CC BY-SA 4.0 |