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Jul 23, 2019 at 20:42 comment added Bernhard Barker @l4mpi If we're talking hypotheticals, there are places other than comments where one can put tangential information, like expandable blocks in answers. Although it would take some convincing for me to believe such information doesn't have a place in answers as they are now (or in answers on separate questions dedicated to that bit of information).
Jul 23, 2019 at 18:10 comment added Bernhard Barker @TylerH As far as I'm aware, "have a problem with" roughly means having any objection to something, which would include objecting to the difficulty of it or how much work it is. The point of asking it was to request clarification for what was said in the quote, which I would paraphrase as "We don't have a problem with it; it's extremely difficult". That would be a contradiction by the above meaning. Although I might just be nitpicking and I can kind of guess what was meant there.
Jul 23, 2019 at 14:27 comment added TylerH " If something feels like a Herculean task, doesn't that mean you have a problem with it (in this context, at least)?" I don't follow. A Herculean task is one designed to be very difficult to perform. Do you mean the assignee has a philosophical issue with the task or its parameters? Or do you just mean a problem as in "this is hard, that's my problem"? I have to assume the former because if you mean the latter, then I'm not sure what the point of saying that is.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:51 comment added l4mpi @Dukeling well, that's your opinion and might be more indicative of your workflow than of the usefulness of comments. I have read useful comments under literally hundreds of answers (and some questions) I found while searching for solutions to programming problems. While some of those should have been an edit, in many cases editing the information into the answer would not be a good fit or derail the post. Very often a quick helpful nugget of information does not need any kind of formating and is perfectly fine as a comment.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:45 comment added Bernhard Barker @l4mpi Putting important information in comments has never really worked all that well in my opinion. It's extremely easy miss and hard to look for because it's usually surrounded by useless or irrelevant comments and the comments format doesn't support proper paragraphs, headings, code blocks, etc. (which it also shouldn't).
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:29 comment added l4mpi @Raedwald unless your "different way" allows me to write arbitrary messages in a way that is also immediately apparent to everyone else who stumbles upon the addressed post, it will not solve the problems comments can solve right now. E.g. say I see a good answer to a question, but have tangential information to add to it which is important to a minority of users ("in environment X when called like this and that this can result in Y"). Editing this into the post is not feasible in the general case, but putting it out of sight (so googlers won't find/read it) is useless.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:22 comment added Raedwald @l4mpi When you have an established way of doing things, it can be hard to imagine a very different way of doing things. So, if comments are useful, getting rid of comments would be madness, right? But what if there was a different way of doing the good things that get done using comments? Then the comment feature could be eliminated entirely. That is my point.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:20 comment added Bernhard Barker @Raedwald We'd also need the ability to add links, I think. Because links can be extremely relevant to certain questions, while not really fitting into an answer. But then we might be getting back to the problem emphasised by idownvotedbecau.se. What if we only allow adding related (non-duplicate) questions (from anywhere on SE?)?
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:16 comment added l4mpi @Raedwald if we're talking about removing things to make unhelpful interactions harder, why not simply remove all users? Nobody could interact anymore, problem solved! </sarcasm> No seriously, killing a useful feature because people overreact to everything (e.g. being told "you can debug this yourself by doing this and this", or being linked to docs or tutorials) is a good way to piss off everyone who writes useful comments but won't do much to appease the "gimme the codez" crowd. And any (IMO misguided) mentoring efforts could be done without removing comments.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:11 comment added Bernhard Barker @Raedwald To even consider getting rid of comments, I think we'd first need to expand a lot on the close reasons. The reasons themselves are probably okay (the free-text one might be a problem though), but a 1-3-sentence explanation can't possibly explain what's wrong with each of millions of questions and how to fix them in a way that's understandable by the masses. Each reason needs a dedicated page (in the help center, not Meta) with a few paragraphs of justification and examples, with a giant button below the close reason (not some tiny inline link) pointing there.
Jul 23, 2019 at 13:04 comment added Braiam @Raedwald you've been reading too much Robert meta.stackexchange.com/q/299195/213575
Jul 23, 2019 at 12:49 comment added Raedwald "multiple users (unofficially) tell you you've done something wrong": the easiest way to avoid that would be... remove the comment feature. IIRC, SO did not originally have it, and Jeff initially objected to it. People can't make rude, snarky or unwelcoming comments if they can't comment. Sure, removing the feature would make helpful interactions harder, but perhaps a radically different way of doing that interaction could be done instead. Such as clicking on a button to request interactive assistance from a "mentor", which then enables interactive chat.
Jul 22, 2019 at 17:03 comment added Bernhard Barker @Makoto Moderation is a problem because it's bad tools + too much to do. If what needs to be moderated were a fraction of what it is now, any problems with the tools would likely not be a big deal. That's what I was trying to get at. Although I personally have no idea which changes to the moderation tools would actually make a noticeable difference to quality of life or efficiency for me personally. I mainly see the quantity problem, or the fundamental workflow problem, e.g. trying to start reviewing a post after it goes public, which may or may not be considered a tools problem.
Jul 22, 2019 at 15:58 comment added gbjbaanb I guess a problem is that a new (bad) question will be downvoted by many people. Then the answer ot that is to hide it immediately it gets one, it can then be "mentored" into being a better question and resubmitted to the site, so nobodys feely-weelys get hurt. and the community will only see good questions thereafter, making sure our feelys don't get disgruntled either!
Jul 22, 2019 at 15:35 comment added Makoto Hmm - the juxtaposition on the Herculean task here is a bit off, IMO. What I wanted to convey here was, generally no one here has a problem with policing the site in general. It becomes a Herculean task when it feels like we're not getting the tooling we need to be able to perform that task. Otherwise, I think I see your point.
Jul 22, 2019 at 14:31 comment added Scott Hannen That we even have downvotes and close votes and multiple questions on this site about the difference is a disconnect. I realize that there is a difference. It's just not as clear as it should be, and results in users being told they're "wrong" in two different ways. The downvote also implies that the asker will both a) understand the feedback well enough to take corrective action, b) take that action, and c) that someone will come along and upvote. The result is that it works much of the time, but it works with dissonance and frustration. Sometimes it doesn't work at all.
Jul 22, 2019 at 13:32 history answered Bernhard Barker CC BY-SA 4.0