Timeline for How will Stack Exchange Overhaul their Q&A Format?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
31 events
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Jul 29, 2019 at 15:29 | comment | added | TylerH | @SaraChipps To sum up my thoughts, I agree that SO has historically had an issue with gatekeeping, in a sense, and an excessive amount of friction. The company recently went through hell dealing with the gatekeeping aspect, and y'all are clearly pivoting to the excessive friction. I simply ask that you (the company) keep it in mind that some friction is good. To try my hand at a pithy (OK, corny) catch-phrase, "Friction generates heat, which is good for your product; you want people to be heated up and passionate about your product." | |
Jul 29, 2019 at 15:27 | comment | added | TylerH | @SaraChipps People often don't take the time to read/reflect on what they're retweeting or quote-tweeting, or they do so in order to one-up someone else. There's a good article on it that came out recently: buzzfeednews.com/article/alexkantrowitz/… -- That relates to SO in that if you reduce friction for new users too much, you get people joining and asking the kinds of too-localized, low-effort, or possibly (or definitely) off-topic questions that nobody wants--the old guard, the company, or anyone else. | |
Jul 29, 2019 at 15:25 | comment | added | TylerH | @SaraChipps And I think it's important to acknowledge that, if we want SO to continue to be the site it has been rather than just another uniquely-designed Quora, Technet, or other forum, then some kind of on-boarding process is really required. Reducing friction is important, but it's also important not to focus obsessively on that at the cost of what that means to your product -- Twitter is a good comparison here. Reducing friction in sharing tweets led to a weaponized "retweet" functionality that's used in a largely harmful way today. | |
Jul 29, 2019 at 15:18 | comment | added | TylerH | @SaraChipps "an on boarding process that is a few hours long" What on-boarding process are you referring to? The tour has a reading time of about 3 minutes, 10 seconds. The on-topic help center topic is an additional 2 minutes of reading, if a user finds their way there (uncommon). While it does take up to several weeks, months, or years to truly understand the ins and outs of SO culture in some cases, I think anything resembling an "on-boarding process" has to be realistically measured in minutes, not hours. | |
Jul 21, 2019 at 4:46 | comment | added | mason | @YvetteColomb no we are not, according to this comment | |
Jul 20, 2019 at 18:20 | comment | added | Sklivvz | @Shog9 my worry is that if you want to try to include more people, you'll hear from them only when you succeed :-) | |
Jul 20, 2019 at 1:39 | comment | added | user3956566 | Listen to the community. We are the ones running the site. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 23:35 | comment | added | user4639281 | "own-ness" Did you mean "onus"? | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 23:26 | comment | added | Shog9 | That's a great question, @Sklivvz... We have a group of folks working on building analytics to capture overall trends, and another tasked with gathering individual feedback and limited demographics via an ongoing survey... And, of course, there's meta. This won't give us a complete picture of course, but the hope is that it'll provide enough different angles to allow us to detect changes - both positive and negative - quickly enough to support the kind of productive iteration we need here. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 19:38 | comment | added | Sklivvz | @Shog9 how are you going to measure what happens, especially to specific groups of people? | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 19:34 | comment | added | Shog9 | No, but that's always the danger isn't it, @Sklivvz... So we're starting slow. I spent this week reviewing a bunch of copy/design changes, and compiling a list of validation messages. Superficial? Of course you know better... Even such small things alter how folks interact with the system, and with each other, and can have large and hard-to-predict effects relative to their difficulty. So, we make a few changes and see what happens... Adjust, and try again... Painstaking work. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 19:24 | comment | added | Sklivvz | @Shog9 things do not need to change for the worse though. Just saying, it's a very strong possibility too (because it's freaking hard). | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:40 | comment | added | Servy | Of course, it quickly turned into, and stayed, a mess, so I don't think the take away here is, "Discussing ideas of unimplemented features is a bad idea." The problem with that example was that important features necessary for the success of the feature were cut. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:40 | comment | added | Servy | After thinking some more, the only feature that comes to mind of a situation where there was much backlash for a feature being different than an initial proposal is the Help and Improvement queue. The initial plan (before the beta was even rolled out) included all sorts of lofty ideals about what the queue might do, and only a fraction of that ended up being implemented, and there was backlash from that from users (myself included) saying that major problems would result due to the missing features. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:36 | comment | added | Shog9 | I think the good-faith interpretation is that "we don't 100% know", @Zoe: it's obvious that things needs to change. We've all recognized this for years now: the asking process sets folks up for failure, the closing system is less effective than it needs to be for the purpose it is put to (JNat has some stats for you BTW, he'll post when he gets back), the only mechanisms we have for providing feedback are roughly the equivalent of a conversation in the middle of the street... But it's a complex system and changes need to be made carefully. So we're starting slowly: nailing down the problems. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:27 | comment | added | Servy | Do you have an examples of times where there was backlash from the community due to a difference between a proposed design and the actual implementation? I can only think of cases where there was backlash due to the community not being informed about features before they were rolled out, or cases where a feature was proposed, problems were pointed out, and then none of those concerns were addressed before rollout (and then the problems pointed out in advance came to pass, after the company ignored the warnings it would happen). | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:08 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | That being said, for all I know, "overhaul" implies scaling the website to its current need, and not a complete change of the core mechanics and moving away from the original purpose of the site, but there's too few details to back that up, especially when we don't get any answers as to what it implies. Details can be worked out, but the general implication of an overhaul should still be available early. What are you moving towards, and at what cost to the current site mechanics? | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:05 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod |
Like I said, I'm probably reading more into this than what's intended, but when you're promising changes so big they're worth calling an overhaul, and promising it in 6-8 quarters with an undefined meaning of what the final outcome will be, at least to me, that sounds like a complete re-write into a Quora/Yahoo Answers/etc-style site, mainly because one of the core issues in this question was left unanswered: What are Stack Exchange's plans for this overhaul, and can it be done without turning Stack Overflow into another Quora or Yahoo Answers?
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Jul 19, 2019 at 18:05 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod |
Going off the extremely vague post, I'm probably not alone in reading into that more than necessary. "Overhaul" in my head involves changing the core mechanics, and that worries me. While I get the main goal you're trying to reach is better feedback for askers, at what cost? Will the users be excluded from that? By improving the way people give each other feedback, we can improve question quality without putting the burden on our users to police the website. makes it seem like users will get reduced moderation abilities, because <something else> replaces the need for it.
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Jul 19, 2019 at 18:00 | history | edited | Sara ChippsStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Forgot CMs! Super important.
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Jul 19, 2019 at 17:45 | comment | added | Makoto | @RobertHarvey: Throw in a hoodie and most will be forgiven. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:40 | comment | added | Robert Harvey Mod | @fbueckert: Perhaps the admission by Stack Exchange that their problems don't arise solely from a cadre of mean-spirited veteran users is enough, for now. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:37 | comment | added | fbueckert | I feel the swing to complete vagueness and refusing to commit to anything is actually hindering you, Sara; the trust that SE had engendered isn't something that can be spent frivolously anymore, and you can't count on infinite patience anymore while you work on these things in the dark. We've been told to wait for months; at what point do we get more information? If you want people to buy in, you need to give them more than this. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:31 | comment | added | Sara Chipps StaffMod | RobertHarvey, Mysticial, and Makyen thank you all for your feedback, thoughts on improvements, and for sharing some history. Always super appreciated. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:30 | comment | added | Sara Chipps StaffMod | @MichaelKolber Great question, thanks for asking! I would say putting the own-ness on new users to get versed in the rules before posting a question really reduces how helpful we can be to new coders in general. I don't think that limiting ourselves to people who would participate in an on boarding process that is a few hours long would be a good way to ensure SO can be a resource for all coders which is our goal. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:28 | comment | added | Robert Harvey Mod | As to the woes of new users, let me just say this: we can't be everyone's therapist. There will always be people who don't like your approach (no matter what it is), especially those who have a sense of entitlement. Regardless of how nice you are, saying "no" to someone's question will always be seen as curation by some, and as a put-off by others. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:27 | comment | added | Mysticial | You've done a great job with the blog in recognizing the problem that needs to be solved. I think most of the complaints now are from the apparent lack of a plan or direction to actually solve that problem. To be fair, you so say it's coming in the future. It's just that a lot of us who've been waiting for years have gotten a bit impatient to say the least. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:21 | comment | added | Robert Harvey Mod | In addition to @Makyen's excellent observations, I would point out that, in the past, you've successfully created new features without asking on Meta about them first, rolled out a beta version, and got incredibly valuable feedback on meta, without creating a firestorm. Meta is terrible at doing design (always has been), but it's great for fine-tuning your features with the help of the people who care the most about seeing them succeed. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:13 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | While I can understand your desire to not run into the issue you mention, my impression is that there is far more backlash from rolling out significant changes without discussing them first. At a minimum, it's usually a good idea to have the changed version available as a preference option and get feedback prior to having the changes go live throughout the site. Note that this isn't a commentary on how good the people are who are making the changes/doing the design, but is a indicator of how much SE cares about it's existing users, which is an area where SE has been having image issues. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:13 | comment | added | Michael Kolber | I get the feeling that a lot of users see this as a self-resolving issue: People who do not take the time to read the asking guidelines get downvoted/shouted at/their questions closed and are therefore discouraged from participating, and those people would similarly not be a good fit for a site where taking time to understand the asking process is essential. How would you respond to that? | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 17:08 | history | answered | Sara ChippsStaffMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |