Timeline for Declaring a Review strike until efficiency improvements are implemented
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
21 events
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Jul 12, 2019 at 10:35 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | @Alex Harvey: I think (I could be wrong) that the triage system uses such a system to rate question quality. From Help us test question triage!: "Behind the scenes, a "quality score" is calculated for each question based on an automated analysis of the content. Those that score well are sent immediately to the homepage; those that score poorly will now be sent to Triage." | |
May 31, 2019 at 4:46 | comment | added | user10677470 | The powers that be are more concerned with being therapist and providing good feelings than quality Q&A. The fact that they finally are just stating that out in the open is good. So everyone please stop beating the quality dead horse. that has not been part of the charter of the site for about 5 years now. | |
May 31, 2019 at 4:03 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | @JarrodRoberson, that sentence means "I would expect SO to have some great data scientists". If they don't, they probably should hire some. Clearly, the existing system is dysfunctional so I guess we agree about that much. | |
May 30, 2019 at 18:41 | comment | added | user10677470 | -1 for I'm sure SO has some great data scientists.. Is this sarcasm? Does not seem to be based on your comments. If not cite some evidence, because it appears completely the opposite, they have none and just make decisions on feelings because "we know this because you have told us". | |
May 24, 2019 at 13:21 | comment | added | Servy | @AlexHarvey Sure, people try automating moderation tools on SO all the time. The problem is that they generally have an extremely low accuracy, generally much lower than people. Certain particularly easy to notice problems are somewhat easier to automate, and as such, have been. What you see on the site now (as bad as it is) is everything that's able to get past the (numerous, but mostly narrow) automated roadblocks. Criticizing the system when you are failing to provide a better alternative is obviously going to be shut down. If/when you can come up with something better... | |
May 24, 2019 at 7:37 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | @Servy, No one has been able to manage to do it thus far. So who has tried? If the simple system I proposed above was tried and it didn't work, show me. If so I'll shut up and go away. The history in Meta suggests anyone who ever dares to criticise the downvotes and close votes is shot down in flames. | |
May 23, 2019 at 17:05 | comment | added | Servy | @AlexHarvey So then let's see you write such a system. I'm skeptical, but by all means, prove me wrong. Just saying that it can be done doesn't really mean anything. No one has been able to manage to do it thus far. If you can provide one that's better than the current system, even if it's not the perfect ideal system, then you're right, that'd still be great. So do you have an implementation of such a system? | |
May 23, 2019 at 17:01 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | As I said above, @Servy, the baseline is the real system, not an idealised system that doesn't exist, has never existed, and never will exist. The real system is dysfunctional. It motivates the majority of users by rep to pay lip service to the rules while answering questions for rep, and a persistent minority meanwhile enforces the rules, each according to their own opinions about them. The end result is that most questions that do stay open are not "clear, well researched, reproducible, useful to others"- that bar is way too high to clear. A different, automated system could do better. | |
May 23, 2019 at 16:02 | comment | added | Servy | If you think it's so easy to write an automated system to determine question quality, why don't you? If you're able to accurately determine whether a question is clear, well researched, on topic, reproducible, useful to others, etc. entirely automatically, then great. I can't imagine it's possible, but by all means, prove me wrong. If you succeed in doing that I'm sure you'll have no problem selling your solution for many millions of dollars. You sure would put me, and other users who've invested a lot of time into manual curation, into our place. | |
May 23, 2019 at 15:01 | comment | added | fbueckert | This again? Your continuing narrative of curation being unwelcoming is getting rather tiring. If you want to make a point, it'd help if it didn't all hit the same old agenda. | |
May 23, 2019 at 12:43 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | @Jeremy, loads of good questions already get closed, because people just don't have the time, or the skills, to do it properly. Most bad questions, meanwhile, don't get closed, because you'd need about 100 times more people to get them all. | |
May 23, 2019 at 12:40 | comment | added | Jeremy Banks | We could close a lot of bad questions ("flip a coin" is a heuristic that would achieve > 50% accuracy), but I fear this is a situation where the ratio of good:bad content is so skewed that it would be very hard to obtain a sufficiently low false-positive rate to avoid closing a large fraction of good questions as well. (There's probably a technical term for that.) | |
May 23, 2019 at 12:38 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | Of course ML can do a better job than humans can at curating the content. But look at the logic of these claims: 1/ A bot could never curate the content, because the vote data is meaningless! 2/ We must have this vote data! It's the only thing that stops this site being just like Quora! This is completely illogical. People just don't want to give up their voting rights. Downvoting and close voting is something some people simply enjoy doing. | |
May 23, 2019 at 12:29 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | As can be seen, @Jeremy, the baseline to compare the proposed system with is the real one. Not the idealised one that doesn't exist, never has existed, and never will exist. The real one. Where the resources required to make it work are about 1% of what we actually have, Where people are going on strike because there's just not enough people to even manage the close vote queues. Imagine if all questions that should be closed were also flagged. Google's ranking algorithms already do just fine, and that's actually all we need. | |
May 23, 2019 at 10:54 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | In general, obviously, the data is there. Every post could be measured for, the number of answers; the number of interactions; the number of views; its ranking on Google; the number of stars; the number of comments; the quality of the writing; and no doubt much more. Obviously, it could be done. | |
May 23, 2019 at 10:51 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | @gnat, Quora's quality is low because everyone wants to ask and answer over here at SO. | |
May 23, 2019 at 10:50 | comment | added | Alex Harvey | @ivan_pozdeev, to your points: 1/ most questions and content really is of low value, and if rules were being enforced equally and consistently, then most questions would be closed. 2/ aside from that, the new system would change voting behaviour. If users lost the ability to downvote, they would probably become nicer, and they would upvote more, understanding that no vote = an opinion that the question is of low quality. | |
May 23, 2019 at 10:44 | comment | added | gnat | this reminds the way how Quora tries to curate its content. Given that quora turns out almost completely useless when I search for solutions to my coding problems (as opposed to SO) I would rather prefer that we keep the old way here... at least until I notice quora getting any better in helping my coding | |
May 23, 2019 at 10:28 | comment | added | double-beep | Auto close questions that are of low value. huh? A warning must be enough. | |
May 23, 2019 at 9:56 | comment | added | ivan_pozdeev | "Use machine learning to identify low value questions based on views per week, upvotes and stars." -- most questions get too little human feedback to reliably judge their value. E.g. average question score is getting ever closer to zero. | |
May 23, 2019 at 9:51 | history | answered | Alex Harvey | CC BY-SA 4.0 |