Timeline for Declaring a Review strike until efficiency improvements are implemented
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
24 events
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Jun 25, 2019 at 15:49 | comment | added | TylerH | @JonEricson Don't want you to miss out on my suggestion elsewhere on this page: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/386324/… | |
May 30, 2019 at 17:56 | comment | added | Travis J | I know this seems heavily downvoted, but I for one am happy to hear this outlook. Addressing content quality where it is produced, and allowing users easier paths to connecting with quality content will only benefit the site. The main issue with closure was to make sure users didn't waste time answering a question which was not topical, it makes absolutely no sense to spend development time making better mops when we can just prevent leaks. | |
May 20, 2019 at 22:06 | comment | added | gnat | of course idea of investing effort into improving close review (at least to historically recorded 60% misses observed several years ago) is totally out of our consideration here. No one in their sane mind should expect this to be an option, right? @Troyen | |
May 20, 2019 at 22:05 | comment | added | Louis | @Troyen The 94% that expire without the question being closed could be expiring because no one on the queue looked at them. If that's the case then nobody in the review queue actually wasted any time on them. | |
May 20, 2019 at 21:14 | comment | added | Troyen | @Louis If 94% of CV tasks are expiring without closing the question, then removing the queue would be pretty similar to the status-quo, minus wasting a bunch of reviewers' time. | |
May 20, 2019 at 20:49 | comment | added | Louis | @JonEricson Because not closing anything and thus letting crap live on the site is going to make things better? | |
May 20, 2019 at 20:30 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @Louis: It won't help the underlying problem of questions needing to be closed, but it will prevent people from being pulled into Sisyphean work. Perhaps it's time to rethink closing. | |
May 20, 2019 at 20:23 | comment | added | Louis | @JonEricson I don't see how that would help. From what I can tell that 94% figure pertains to close-vote review tasks. These review tasks are created when someone votes to close a question which does not yet have a review task. These tasks are created outside the clove vote review queue. Once a task is visible in the queue, the only change reviewers can cause is that the task gets completed (enough people voted to close, or voted to keep open). Removing the queue won't change the number of tasks created but will reduce the number of tasks completed and will make the % worse. | |
May 20, 2019 at 19:32 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @gnat: I haven't had a chance to look at the stats in more detail, but if anything close to 94% of reviews end up wasted, we should probably shut down that review queue immediately. | |
May 20, 2019 at 16:59 | comment | added | Servy | @canon Well first off, there's a difference between using the review queues, and reviewing. I took your statement of "stopped reviewing" to mean reviewing in general, not just using the queues. But either way, the site would move closer to the direction of those older forums, it wouldn't just suddenly become the same as them. | |
May 20, 2019 at 16:06 | comment | added | canon | @Servy Are reviews what's keeping us from becoming a forum? What about the Q&A format itself? Organic curation/voting? Are the queues really what protects us from the void? | |
May 20, 2019 at 15:18 | comment | added | Servy | "I wonder what would happen if everyone just stopped reviewing... not with an agenda or anything. I just wonder if it would really be all that bad if everyone just stopped." The easiest way to see what that would end up like is simply looking at other similar Q/A sites that don't have the same quality standards and moderation tools that SO has. If SO's standards aren't enforced, and their tools aren't utilized, it will continue to look more an more like its competitors, the traditional forums. | |
May 20, 2019 at 8:25 | comment | added | gnat | Jon, spreading the load was the original intent of review but I am not sure that it holds now. Stats in another answer suggest that up to 94% reviews end in nothing - that sounds more like a wasted effort to me | |
May 20, 2019 at 8:18 | comment | added | Magisch | @JonEricson If a bad question is asked and nobody sees it does it matter? It matters to the poster, I guess. If you think getting your question closed upsets people, what do you think happens when they start seeing nothing, like you would on a shadowban? That will drive people away more then getting questions closed, imo. | |
May 18, 2019 at 19:15 | history | edited | Jon EricsonStaff | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
I see this post was taken in a way that I didn't intend. I doubt this will change the way people feel about it, but at least this edit more accurately conveys what I intended.
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May 18, 2019 at 2:27 | comment | added | user10677470 |
@canon - lots of high rep people have just stopped reviewing for all practical intents and purposes, a long time ago, it is futile and more importantly unappreciated. I had my account reset from 40+K to 0 specifically so I would be unable to do anything on the site. I accidently got some rep that I am trying to shed right now so I can do even less, like not even being able to leave comments would keep me from wasting the little time I do spend watching the car crash in slow motion that SO is now.
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May 18, 2019 at 1:39 | comment | added | user3956566 | I think some back end work would alleviate some issues while the site is working on the front end work. Not sure how difficult some of these ideas would be to implement, but they would take up less time than all the front end work. I honestly wish you'd throw the community a bone. | |
May 18, 2019 at 1:37 | comment | added | user3956566 | If a bad question falls on the site and nobody hears it, does it still make a sound? | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:52 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @fbueckert: Ah! I re-read your comment and understand it now. Please don't feel guilty about not reviewing! I'm trying to explain the mechanism and I see now it could look manipulative. Not sure how to edit my post, but if I think of something, I will. | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:25 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @canon: I also wonder that. I suspect many questions get more views in the process of being reviewed than from people stumbling across them or via search. (I suppose I could get some data to back up that guess. Maybe next week.) If a bad question is asked and nobody sees it does it matter? | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:22 | comment | added | canon | I wonder what would happen if everyone just stopped reviewing... not with an agenda or anything. I just wonder if it would really be all that bad if everyone just stopped. | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:16 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @fbueckert: I suppose making the review queue indicator light up would make people who don't review feel guilty, but I'm not sure why you quoted the bit about people viewing the posts organically. In any case, I'd much rather people not review than feel miserable about review. Personally, I think the work we are doing on the front end of the bad question funnel is more pressing than work on the back end of it. | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:12 | comment | added | fbueckert | "If fewer people use the review system, it means more of the load is on people viewing posts organically" - The problem with this argument is that it's more about making those refusing to review feel guilty, without actually doing anything to resolve the issue. In a workplace, that's a pretty decent sign of bad management. There was a discussion about this in the Tavern starting here. | |
May 17, 2019 at 22:06 | history | answered | Jon EricsonStaff | CC BY-SA 4.0 |