Timeline for Declaring a Review strike until efficiency improvements are implemented
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
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Aug 9, 2019 at 17:25 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Aug 9, 2019 at 8:52 | comment | added | gnat | consider adding this recent announcement to the list: Experiment: closing and reopening happens at 3 votes for the next 30 days | |
Jul 25, 2019 at 12:50 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 19, 2019 at 20:39 | comment | added | Secespitus | @Zoe Thanks for the update! Then let's wait and see what the stats say once JNat is back. | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 18:40 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @Secespitus (figured I'd ping you because you asked for an update first), but I got an ETA on stats from Shog on an unrelated question: they'll be posted whenever JNat gets back (which hopefully isn't too long from now) | |
Jul 19, 2019 at 7:45 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 19, 2019 at 7:42 | history | rollback | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod |
Rollback to Revision 28
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Jul 19, 2019 at 7:37 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 18, 2019 at 8:27 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @Tensibai No problem - I'm just happy there's finally progress again | |
Jul 18, 2019 at 8:08 | comment | added | Tensibai | Just wanted to thank you for the last edit acknowledging the actual move and wording pretty well what I feel as well :) | |
Jul 18, 2019 at 8:01 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Progress (~^w^)~
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Jul 16, 2019 at 20:48 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 15, 2019 at 6:55 | comment | added | Secespitus | @JNat Any update about when we can expect the numbers to the question you requested from Zoe? | |
Jul 11, 2019 at 20:33 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @PeterMortensen added the first one (thanks) - the second one was already on the list | |
Jul 11, 2019 at 20:33 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 11, 2019 at 20:28 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | Candidates for your list of related questions: Why do you stay? and The Stack Overflow I wish to build and participate in is no longer supported | |
Jul 10, 2019 at 14:47 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 6, 2019 at 14:27 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 2, 2019 at 7:30 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 1, 2019 at 9:18 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jul 1, 2019 at 8:51 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 30, 2019 at 11:49 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Typo
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Jun 28, 2019 at 12:35 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 27, 2019 at 16:47 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @JNat done. | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 16:35 | comment | added | JNat StaffMod | As Shog noted, @Zoe, the data on the public SEDE does not give a full view of the situation here — mind posting a separate question, asking for accurate numbers on this, so we can answer it properly? :) Doing it in the comment section here is hard, and as a separate answer seems awkward. | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 13:54 | comment | added | Shog9 | I have a sneaking suspicion we're not pushing all review data to SEDE here; it's been a long time since that was written and I don't recall what we did anymore, but the original intent was to allow analysis of pending reviews... So all bets are off for completed ones. We might be dropping everything pertaining to deleted posts or something, gonna have to find time to ask bluefeet about the migration. | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 13:15 | comment | added | gnat | hmm myself I am only interested in review stats, and I don't really care whether these were triggered by flags or votes. Nor am I interested to learn about success rates of votes or flags to close. As long as your analysis focuses strictly on reviews, its results are what really interests me | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 13:09 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | The main difference here is, assuming Shog really checked flags and close vote invalidation and not reviews, we have different numbers. I can't verify the actual close vote stats because close votes have been excluded from SEDE since 2013. The real question I have at least is if my number is correct. If it is, 12% review task completion (~88% review invalidation), along with 42% close vote/close flag invalidation, that shows how many questions are affected by this, assuming 88% is correct (which I'd like someone to double-check considering my first try was as wrong as it was) | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 13:06 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @gnat I highly doubt Shog made a mistake. If there's a "mistake", it's more in the difference between what stats we took (Shog appears to include close votes as well as flags, but I have to assume those flags only include flags with "Should be closed"). For the actual fixing step, I made the completed reviews number be the number of completed reviews (regardless of the outcome - both leave open as well as close count here), and adding the invalidated reviews where the post is deleted or closed (invalidation + deleted/closed is worth calling completed in most cases, imo). | |
Jun 27, 2019 at 12:20 | comment | added | gnat | Zoe, so you took these 6% validated reviews, then you added reviews resolved to Leave Open and reviews where target question is closed or deleted, right? And this gave you 12% not 42. Maybe @Shog9 made some mistake here | |
Jun 26, 2019 at 19:57 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 26, 2019 at 18:15 | comment | added | gnat | if we will find out a way to accurately count efficiency rate of close reviews, this alone will make this strike discussion worthy. This was worrying me ever since the very start of fuzzying / aging tricks with close queue | |
Jun 26, 2019 at 11:59 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @Shog9 Revised the query, but I'm getting 12% of reviews are handled (ReviewTaskStateId = 2 or ReviewTaskStateId = 3 and post deleted or post closed). I'm assuming 42% is from the close vote aging and flag aging, which at least to me makes sense (most of my aged away flags are from my <3k days). Anyways, does ~88% task invalidation seem right, or did I do something horribly wrong? | |
Jun 25, 2019 at 16:48 | comment | added | Shog9 | Oh... One other little wrinkle: audits are included in this data, but not indicated. They shouldn't be invalidated very often, but may skew results otherwise if you're just comparing against post state. | |
Jun 25, 2019 at 16:41 | comment | added | Shog9 | Sounds about right, @gnat. Essentially, try to match the review result type with the outcome of the post. PostsWithDeleted may help here, Zoe | |
Jun 25, 2019 at 16:36 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | Well, the only time it could be triggered is if the post is closed or deleted, right? Open ones without a completed review would be invalidated. I'll see if I can correct the query | |
Jun 25, 2019 at 16:32 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 25, 2019 at 16:31 | comment | added | gnat | @Shog9 so, in order to estimate amount of efficient reviews, we need to add to "validated" ones 1) amount of those resolved as leave open and 2) amount of "invalidated" reviews where questions ended closed or deleted. Is that correct? | |
Jun 25, 2019 at 16:29 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 25, 2019 at 16:16 | comment | added | Shog9 | One critical flaw in your Statistics section: votes aging out will invalidate a review, and review tasks themselves will age out and invalidate... But they'll also be invalidated if the post is closed from outside review or deleted. So for example, an asker confirming a duplicate vote immediately closes the question and invalidates the review - but the vote itself was still helpful. Unfortunately, this stuff is fiendishly complex; actual portion of aged votes/flags is about 42% of all raised, but even that is misleading: some of those aged away because review completed… with "Do not close". | |
Jun 22, 2019 at 21:51 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Jun 22, 2019 at 18:38 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 30, 2019 at 18:46 | comment | added | user10677470 | @Raedwald after doing the same thing for a couple of years, I realized that was no more effective than pissing in a volcano in and effort to put it out. The number of votes you get vs the number of things needing closure is so fractional it is not statistically significant. The only measurable effect it has was to increase the amount of on and off site personal harassment I got from people that had their question closed. So I just gave up and stopped all together. | |
May 24, 2019 at 12:32 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 23, 2019 at 6:09 | comment | added | Raedwald | Interesting. When I review, I tend to filter to select only duplicates for which I have a gold badge, so I can instantly close the close worthy questions. | |
May 20, 2019 at 19:36 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 20, 2019 at 12:22 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 19, 2019 at 18:37 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
removed failed pagination attempt (pending FR/6-8), moved links to my preferred format, expanded on stats
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May 19, 2019 at 18:24 | history | edited | Heretic Monkey | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Added links to Yvette's answer for easier reference; fixed some spelling and grammar issues.
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May 19, 2019 at 16:35 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | Taking a look at some lower volume sites (i.e. Code Review, with more users than visits per day), they have more completed tasks than invalidated ones. I don't think the review system is currently designed to handle the extreme volume of posts on some of the bigger sites in the network. | |
May 19, 2019 at 16:33 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @gnat honestly, that's where I'm at after seeing the numbers. I knew it was bad, but not that bad. Unless SE takes action to handle these issues rather than hiding them, we might as well stop. The decidedly worst part is that some of the other high-volume sites have the same problems. You can change the site to run the query on. Take a look at for an instance SU or Ask Ubuntu (the two top sites after Stack Overflow in traffic) - neither of those have specifically good rates either (last week, Ask Ubuntu was at 43% invalidation), but it's noticeably better than SO. | |
May 19, 2019 at 16:27 | comment | added | gnat | I see, thanks. Looks like it wasn't too good back then and it has gotten only worse over time and at this point it is just awfully bad. And this is despite community permanently complaining and suggesting improvements. Given what I learned so far 94% reviews going to waste bin make a pretty good reason to stop close voting at all | |
May 19, 2019 at 15:49 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @gnat the query is designed to handle from x weeks ago until today, so you can modify the amount of weeks if you want to see older data. Assuming 262-ish weeks (slightly over 5 years). Just as an example, on 17.05.2015, 61.6% of all reviews were invalidated. There doesn't appear to be any data earlier than 14.07.2012 (but that week has 40k reviews, and then an instant drop, so it might be earlier reviews?). It's still unnecessarily high though, even back then. Anyways, you could alternatively create your own query (or base one on mine) if it doesn't work for your use in its current state. | |
May 19, 2019 at 15:37 | comment | added | gnat | "~94% of CV reviews were made for nothing" (on some weeks) -- is it possible to obtain similar stats for older reviews, to compare to how it was, say, 4-5 years ago? | |
May 19, 2019 at 15:01 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
*cough* wrong link
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May 19, 2019 at 12:25 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 18, 2019 at 19:43 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Table of contents? Nej.
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May 18, 2019 at 19:31 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 18, 2019 at 13:58 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 18, 2019 at 13:48 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Numbers, numbers, numbers!
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May 18, 2019 at 11:42 | history | edited | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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May 18, 2019 at 11:28 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod | @YvetteColomb yeah, I figured you meant those ^^" Also, you and the other mods deserve credit just for trying - closing stuff requires a lot of attention and energy, and coordinated efforts are even harder (even though SOCVR exists). The binding votes do make an impact on the review efficiency. The only way to actually fix it at this point is making sure there are efficiency improvements so we avoid burning out users, whether moderators or 3k users, while making sure the queues (and especially CV review) are designed in a way that both avoids that, at the same time as it enables more reviews. | |
May 18, 2019 at 11:14 | comment | added | user3956566 | I'm referring to your duplicate comments fyi :) | |
May 18, 2019 at 11:14 | comment | added | user3956566 | I follow some users who post duplicate comments and with that you can find a heap of questions that need to be closed. I've considered following you and some other users in the Android and some other tags to go about closing posts. Taking advantage of the binding vote. I start sometimes, but it's too overwhelming. It takes a lot of mental energy to review close votes, decide if they're duplicated- what is the best close reason - is there enough info. there's a limit to how much of that we can do. | |
May 17, 2019 at 20:30 | comment | added | GrumpyCrouton | @Zoe Along with that, the only thing we can do is try something, because what we are doing now obviously isn't working. Seems like several people just want to sit back and continue on the path we are already on which has been failing us for some time now. | |
May 17, 2019 at 20:12 | comment | added | Zoe - Save the data dump Mod |
@Servy The size of the unimplemented feature request is one thing, but any of them could have a status-denied added if it isn't implementable. No response what so ever, at least to me, makes it seem like most of the feature requests are plain out ignored. The queue size itself is honestly confusing because of the fuzzy numbers, and you're completely right about that. But the only way to get somewhere is if the stuff that's in there is actually reviewed.
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May 17, 2019 at 20:09 | comment | added | Servy | The number of unimplemented feature requests isn't really a useful stat because the vast majority of them won't be good ideas. It's just not a good indication of the problem at all. Next, changing how many posts get reviewed (whether up or down) won't change the queue size meaningfully. If there are more reviews done then fewer posts will age out, and the queue wills stay about the same size, if fewer posts are reviewed more will age out, and the queue will stay about the same size. The actual queue is numerous orders of magnitude larger than what's shown. | |
May 17, 2019 at 19:55 | history | answered | Zoe - Save the data dumpMod | CC BY-SA 4.0 |