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Jan 31, 2023 at 0:59 comment added mtraceur Ultimately, the big solution would be to create actual hard incentives against bad downvotes, bad close votes, bad "this is a duplicate", and so on, especially on chronic repeat offenses. Maybe close votes that get appealed and re-opened should cost the closers a decent piece of rep, maybe starting at -5. Ditto false duplicates. We should go meta with rep. I would love to downvote a close or duplicate or delete judgment, burning a little of my rep to penalize everyone who was responsible for that judgement (just like we burn our -1 to inflict a -2 on an asker or answerer).
Jan 31, 2023 at 0:51 comment added mtraceur This is pretty on-point as far as the core game theory / natural selection problem in play here. (I'd also point out that StackOverflow's great idea of gameifying answers and questions and then using that as a proxy for fitness to wield greater power was, despite its overall wisdom, always going to end up having a disproportionate draw for certain kinds of narcissism - reputation, power, moralistic righteousness, and enforcing Values, especially publicly visible, are all things that can serve as narcissistic supply - as ego fuel and soothing self-esteem balm).
Nov 29, 2022 at 19:09 comment added E_net4 Dismissing constructive counter-arguments backed by evidence with misguided scarecrows (as we don't condone rudeness at all) and accusing of us portraying an us-versus-them mentality while also fostering that same mentality makes it clear that this was an exercise of futility. The votes on this answer are aligned with this twisted way of thinking, at least.
Nov 21, 2022 at 20:29 comment added Ocean @thb I just started with the first answer and kept reading until I found an answer that made sense. Most of the top voted answers are just people defending their own rude behavior by deflection. The equivalent of pointing fingers at each other. Us versus them mentality. Seemingly a consequence of the elitism this site has been breeding. Which is totally missing the point.
Nov 19, 2022 at 23:38 comment added thb @Ocean Out of curiosity, how did you find my answer? Isn't it thoroughly buried?
Nov 18, 2022 at 17:09 comment added E_net4 @Ocean It only serves as insult to injury, not to mention evidence that Dunbar's number is a poor tool to assess kindness/rudeness in this scenario, that most cases of blatant rudeness on this site do not come from veterans and other curators, but from the same users posting low quality content as backlash towards curators and moderators. This is a pattern that we observe to this day, through tools such as the heat detector.
Nov 18, 2022 at 17:05 comment added E_net4 @Ocean The downvotes only speak there are many who disagree with the stance. It stands as your opinion that this answer is the most plausible one. I strongly disagree, considering that there are much better ones here. This answer provides a clear perspective on why the example question shown by the OP was poorly received. And this one exposes, albeit tongue-in-cheek, that the alleged rudeness overlooks a very serious problem: that most questions are indeed of subpar quality.
Nov 18, 2022 at 15:32 comment added Ocean @E_net4thecommentflagger This being the most plausible answer and also receiving lots of downvotes speaks for itself, in my opinion.
Nov 18, 2022 at 9:47 comment added E_net4 @Ocean And yet downvotes have nothing to do with socializing or forming relationships. It's a way to rate the quality/value of a post. If you vote out of spite over people, that is your own misuse of the privilege. In the very few places where communication is more open (such as here on Meta, and the chatrooms), the curators who vote frequently on content also generally know to abide to the code of conduct, being respectful and kind to their peers. Note also that quality creates kindness.
Nov 18, 2022 at 9:12 comment added Ocean @E_net4thecommentflagger The downvotes alone represent the ire. | You are misunderstanding Dunbar's number. You are trying to say that truck drivers are less likely to be rude because they drive all day and are exposed to lots of different drivers. But that is not what Dunbar's number is about. It's a hard limit on people's ability to from relationships with others.
Nov 16, 2022 at 17:06 comment added E_net4 @Ocean That reasoning is completely off. 1) do not equate constructive counter-arguing with plain ire. 2) As hinted by Servy's command, Dunbar's number actually tells us that the users who have a significant presence in the platform, which includes active curators who regularly vote and flag content, would be less likely to be rude, because they will be facing a greater diversity of users than occasional askers. Reciprocally, it's new users, with their misaligned expectations, which more often show rudeness.
Sep 25, 2022 at 20:13 comment added Ocean This is the best answer as it explains the root cause of the issue. Ironically it also attracted the same ire that contributes to the perceived rudeness. One lesson to draw from this explanation would be to completely anonymize both askers and answerers on this site, including their reputation. That way the playing field would be even.
Feb 26, 2019 at 17:28 comment added halfer @thb: I think I understand your perspective, but I think you make too much of the idea that something being unpopular makes it automatically correct. I have no view on Dunbar's Number myself, but would suggest that we ought not give in to defeatism.
Feb 26, 2019 at 11:24 comment added thb @Cerbrus Aha, you are correct. Indeed, that was my point.
Feb 26, 2019 at 11:22 history made wiki Post Made Community Wiki by thb
Feb 26, 2019 at 11:18 comment added thb @halfer Thank you for the edit. The edit alters the answer's rhetorical emphasis, but perhaps that is for the best. If you or another wishes to add an explanation I won't object, but nothing I know can make Dunbar's answer popular. I doubt that lengthening the answer would help. Many simply will not like Dunbar's answer. I cannot help that. That an answer is disliked does not make it untrue. Before the answer got downvoted to oblivion, it may have provoked thought in a few readers. That was its aim.
Feb 25, 2019 at 23:08 comment added Servy This answer does a good job of explaining why people coming to SO, who are not active contributors, are more likely to be rude, even if it doesn't fail to explain why the regulars who invest in the community, post a lot, and strive to improve the quality of the content of the site, are less inclined to.
Feb 25, 2019 at 8:00 comment added Cerbrus Most of the regulars.
Feb 25, 2019 at 0:38 comment added Stargateur @Cerbrus and how many account do you actually remember ?
Feb 24, 2019 at 23:46 comment added Cerbrus "because any given random driver will never see you again." Except that on Stack Exchange, we have identifiable accounts...
Feb 24, 2019 at 22:36 comment added halfer In order to make this answer more useful (or understandable), would you explain what Dunbar's Number is, in the question itself? Indeed, what was Dunbar's point? I appreciate readers can click your links, but if you are using terms that themselves need explanation, perhaps confusion will be the most likely response to this.
Feb 24, 2019 at 22:33 history edited halfer CC BY-SA 4.0
There's no need for an update here - merging this is probably clearer. Feel free to rollback if you don't agree. I'll also comment.
Feb 23, 2019 at 21:47 history edited thb CC BY-SA 4.0
Cast pronouns into SO's preferred style.
Feb 23, 2019 at 21:38 comment added thb @E_net No, not stirring. I see why you would think that I were, but the misperception is just exactly the sort of thing Dunbar explains. I have just read your user profile (interesting, thanks for posting it), so that helps a little. It lends social context, yet if the community is so large that you and I never again interact, well, this is a significant fact, don't you think? At any rate, I have added to my answer the explanation you request.
Feb 23, 2019 at 21:34 history edited thb CC BY-SA 4.0
added 1351 characters in body
Feb 23, 2019 at 21:00 comment added E_net4 But see, of course you're making an pot-stirring statement here. Even if you do not intend to be arrogant, people will perceive you as such with a statement of the form "you should study Dunbar's number, and I won't tell you why or what for because you wouldn't understand it". Unless you actually take your time to put it in terms that we can understand, nothing beneficial will come from this.
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:53 comment added thb @E_net4 If I keep talking, I'm probably losing, coming across in writing as an arrogant fellow when that is not really how I am. I do believe that I happen to know one particular thing however that most technical persons do not know. They know things I do not know, too, so that's fair, but the thing I know regards Dunbar. Thanks for the colloquy. I'll leave you the last word.
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:49 comment added thb @E_net4 Sorry, mon ami. Not everything will be understood by everybody, not even by downvoters. Stack Overflow has a problem it can mitigate but cannot solve. I have given what I believe to be the most useful explanation in this thread, but it's not a popularity contest. If you study Dunbar, you might learn something important, but you might have to reorient your worldview to do it—which of course I would not ask you to do. Worldviews are hard. I can only show the way.
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:40 comment added E_net4 One would expect you to bridge that idea to the site. Moreover ...Did you really throw in the "you wouldn't understand" argument and assume that the downvotes were because we don't (understand)?
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:37 comment added thb @E_net4 But who knows? Maybe it is I who do not grasp something. This is certainly possible. It has happened before.
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:36 comment added thb @E_net4 Other than to observe that Dunbar's number explains why codes of conduct (a) are necessary and (b) seldom work very well, no, unfortunately, I cannot explain any better than the linked article already does. Most persons in a technical audience will never grasp Dunbar's point. Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg grasped Dunbar's point early, which is why he is a billionaire and you and I are not. As far as I know, the downvotes against this answer tally technical persons who, regrettably, do not grasp Dunbar's point.
Feb 23, 2019 at 20:24 comment added E_net4 Can you explain how Dunbar's number relates to upholding a code of conduct?
Feb 23, 2019 at 17:15 history answered thb CC BY-SA 4.0