Timeline for Declined flag on answer copying another answer in its entirety, although with attribution
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
38 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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Dec 20, 2020 at 20:18 | answer | added | Nate T | timeline score: -5 | |
Feb 25, 2019 at 0:15 | comment | added | Michael Kay | I get very irritated when people suggest that a question Q1 should be closed as a duplicate of Q2 simply because both have the same answer. It should only be closed as a duplicate if Q1 and Q2 are the same question. In my experience it's very common for two completely different questions to have the same answer, basically because two users have made the same or very similar mistakes but the consequences of the mistake are completely different depending on the circumstances. | |
Feb 24, 2019 at 2:13 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | @Mark There are many salient differences between the two examples. Obviously the author of MSDN articles is unknown, and we would never expect people to cite that. More importantly, we're talking about answers posted to Stack Overflow, which are licensed under our license agreement requiring attribution. Nobody has to guess about who the author was, because it's displayed prominently. I also think you're misreading the Help Center. It is intended to apply to quotations taken from other sources. When you have them, you need to have links and attribution. Not the other way around. | |
Feb 23, 2019 at 14:16 | answer | added | Mark Amery | timeline score: 2 | |
Feb 23, 2019 at 13:53 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @CodyGray Most quoted material on Stack Overflow doesn't name the author. Yes, it's written in our policy, but frankly, our written policy is ludicrously overzealous. As I read it, it purportedly applies not only to quotes but to all links, implying that anyone who's ever included a link in an answer without somehow identifying and listing the authors of the linked content (a frequently impossible task) is officially a plagiarist. You have yourself quoted from MSDN articles without identifying their authors; should I flag you for plagiarism? | |
Feb 23, 2019 at 10:10 | history | edited | yivi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Feb 23, 2019 at 5:21 | vote | accept | yivi | ||
Feb 23, 2019 at 4:27 | answer | added | user3956566 | timeline score: 27 | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 20:12 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy Sigh The SE page I linked is about referencing. It briefly defines plagiarism as "posting the work of others with no indication that it is not your own", which is not identical to failing to provide proper attribution. We agree not providing appropriate minimum attribution is grounds for removal of the content. You just call the entire thing "plagiarism", whereas I and the page I linked on referencing make a distinction between "plagiarism" and providing the minimum attribution required by the that page. [Note: the minimum required there is less than what's required by CC BY-SA 3.0.] | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 19:43 | comment | added | Servy | @Makyen What is considered plagiarism on the site is not a matter of opinion. Just because you personally don't think that copying the content of others, rather than only using others' work to supplement one's one, shouldn't be considered plagiarism, doesn't change the fact that the site's guidelines on plagiarism state the opposite. Stating that this, in the content of posts here, it's not plagiarism, is just objectively false. You were the one going around trying to correct other's statements about what plagiarism is, despite your own sources contradicting you. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 19:38 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy, I suggest that when you are reading, you pay more attention to, and read a bit more accurately, the details in what is written, how it's organized, how it's referenced and sourced, etc. You appear to be continuing this discussion, just to have an argument. You've chosen not to just accept that we disagree. I, frankly, don't really care all that much what definition you personally use for the word "plagiarism", so have no real need to convince you. Because you appear to be continuing this conversation just to be argumentative, I'm just going to disengage. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 19:25 | comment | added | Servy | @Makyen Why are you trying to refute the credibility of your own source? If you don't think that's a suitable definition of plagiarism then why did you put it forth as a source for what plagiarism is, and use it as your justification for your assertion that this isn't plagiarism? Likewise the SE page describing what plagiarism is covers this behavior. That's it's at the end of the remarks on plagiarism instead of the start doesn't mean it can just be ignored. It's still just as much a part of the plagiarism definition provided on that page. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 19:15 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy No, Wikipedia quite clearly states the 10 items listed in that section are from the "2015 survey of teachers and professors by Turnitin" (ref), which is a company making money off detecting plagiarism (i.e. they are biased). Where does SE state the definition of plagiarism you're using? You keep saying that, but have yet to provide a reference. The SE page I linked gives a succinct definition of plagiarism. It then goes on to list the referencing requirements for SE, which is not the same as defining "plagiarism". | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:59 | comment | added | Servy | @Makyen So now you're saying that the source you cited of plagiarism is wrong? Not only does your own source say this is plagiarism, but SO's rules say it's plagiarism, and you have no references that say it isn't (not that it matters, because SO has stated it's plagiarism here, which is all that matters). | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:55 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy Perhaps we're being to pedantic in this discussion. I think we can both agree that, as Cody Gray has stated, SE requires attribution. I think the main difference of our positions is that you are calling a lack of full, correct attribution plagiarism, while I'm using a more narrow definition of plagiarism, but calling a lack of full, correct attribution a copyright and/or TOS violation. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:48 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy As to the 10th type listed in Wikipedia's page under "Common forms of student plagiarism": "Relying too heavily on other people's work. Fails to bring original thought into the text": that is from a survey of teachers, and doesn't, necessarily, actually define plagiarism. It's just what those surveyed teachers were lumping into that category. I significantly disagree that, as written, that description is plagiarism. It's something that should get a bad grade, but isn't actual plagiarism, IMO. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:48 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy Actually, it is a copyright violation, because they don't comply with the attribution requirements in the license. Such licenses grant the right to copy under certain specified conditions, not just whenever you feel like it, without regard to the conditions specified in the license. As to your arguments about SE's definition of plagiarism, I'm using "Plagiarism - posting the work of others with no indication that it is not your own", found here. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:42 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Attribution is required; that includes naming the person who wrote the answer. Your flag was wrongly declined. Period. The guidance has not changed. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:31 | comment | added | Servy | @Makyen That the content is licenced to allow copying means it's not a copyright violation, which is a strictly legal question, rather than a question of plagiarism (which is simply a question of what is considered acceptable by a community's standards, and is not a legal matter). | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:30 | comment | added | Servy | @Makyen That page, in addition to SO's definition of plagiarism specifically states that quoting and citing the work of others without adding sufficient original new content is also plagiarism. To quote your own source's definition, "Relying too heavily on other people's work. Fails to bring original thought into the text." SO's definition of plagiarism has a similar statement, saying, "Do not copy the complete text of external sources; instead, use their words and ideas to support your own." | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 18:25 | comment | added | Makyen Mod | @Servy It isn't plagiarism. Plagiarism is representing work done by someone else as your own. Just providing a link to the page containing the source and saying it's from that page makes it not plagiarism. However, just a link to the question page on which the answer exists isn't sufficient attribution under CC BY-SA 3.0, or the SE TOS. In addition, there's the already mentioned issue of should answers that are just attributed copies of another answer be something we find acceptable. However, those are different issues than plagiarism. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 14:16 | comment | added | Servy | This is an unambiguous case of plagiarism by the site's own plagiarism rules. There is no justification for declining a flag like this. Sadly this doesn't seem like an isolated incident, I've noticed numerous cases recently of mods refusing to act on cases of plagiarism. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 13:14 | comment | added | Braiam | @TheWanderer I think you are misunderstanding my comment. I'm telling other voters to not simply follow this user judgement, but to form one themselves. I don't care what the user should do, I care whenever others follow the same potentially misguided path. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 13:08 | comment | added | TheWanderer | @Braiam they think it answers the question, otherwise they wouldn't have posted it as an answer. If you think an already-existing answer works, then you should VTC, not repost the answer. If it isn't actually a duplicate... well that's why we need 5 votes, a gold badge, or a mod. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 13:07 | comment | added | Braiam | @TheWanderer wait, what? If they posted something that doesn't answer the question, why should it be closed? | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 12:28 | comment | added | TheWanderer | @Braiam then that user still should have VTCed instead of posting an answer. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 11:51 | comment | added | Braiam | Before saying it's a duplicate, look at the question not at the answers! What if the user is wrong and that answer doesn't answer the question? | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 11:47 | history | edited | yivi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Feb 22, 2019 at 11:44 | comment | added | WhatsThePoint | Answer is deleted now, I am less than 10k but going off the last comment it is likely it was deleted in the LQ posts queue for being link only | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 10:28 | comment | added | Temani Afif | I flagged a lot of answers like that before and flag was accepted and answer deleted | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 10:15 | comment | added | BDL | Does anyone see a problem if I copy BoltClocks answer (with proper attribution) to this question here? | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 10:13 | comment | added | BDL | Copying complete answers instead of dupe-closing could is not acceptable by a user with 5k+ reputation. They should now already how to close vote. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:45 | comment | added | xdtTransform | @yivi, Thx for asking the question. I have flag the quetion as dupe. Saw the matching answer but was puzzle on the way to handle it. Was on my SO todo list. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:40 | comment | added | Tom | Just to make it clear: I'm with you (and with Bolt in their answer) that such answers shouldn't exist, but I'm not sure the majority of SO community members would agree. Regarding Bolts answer: I don't know (but hope) that this still matches current SO guidelines. We will see what the moderator says, when they post an answer to explain their decision. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:33 | comment | added | yivi | @Tom Please read Bolt's answer in the question I linked. I flagged because of answers like that encourage users to flag useless posts like these. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:31 | comment | added | Tom | Regarding your question: as far as I know it isn't forbidden to use the answer of another question to answer "this" question, just highly discouraged, because the answerer should have voted/flagged to close the question instead. That is why the answer is downvote-worthy (if you want), but not flaggable, since it provides attribution. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:29 | comment | added | Tom | Don't forget to vote to close the question as a duplicate if you haven't done that, yet. | |
Feb 22, 2019 at 9:23 | history | asked | yivi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |