Timeline for Divisions, disappointment and pillory: how can we make meta a more enjoyable, productive space for everyone?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
16 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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Feb 23, 2019 at 9:59 | comment | added | jpmc26 | The fact that SO is trying to abandon that mission is a key source of frustration for users who believe in it. Even more frustrating, they won't just come out and say so. They won't do so because they know that it will damage the site enormously, by demotivating many of their most active and dedicated users. This "have your cake and eat it too" approach by SO isn't hard to pick up on, though, so most users realize it, at least unconsciously. This makes tensions rise, leading to escalating disagreements and even more frustration as the concerns of these users continue to go completely ignored. | |
Feb 23, 2019 at 9:57 | comment | added | jpmc26 | You can't evaluate whether something works unless you have a goal to target. That's what "the mission" is: a goal. When SO started, it stated its goal very clearly: to be a repository of high quality information about programming. It was made clear that all the moderation efforts were created to further this goal. I see discussions all the time about being practical about achieving that goal on Meta; rarely do I see a post that isn't in some way tying its arguments into that goal. I think you are simply dismissing this mission, rather than understanding the goal these users are advocating for. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 23:25 | comment | added | Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier | "But their emails".jpg | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:43 | comment | added | TemporalWolf | @KevinB That's fair, it may help to soften the answer, as I'm not trying to imply these are dire circumstances. But I have regularly seen appeals to tradition, pile on and nonconstructive negative comments, even from high rep users... and those are the sorts of things which make meta a negative place for me. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:41 | comment | added | Makoto | insert obligatory comment about hills and nihilism here | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:39 | comment | added | TemporalWolf | @Makoto I'm not convinced that would have generated a better outcome: even if justified, I'd expect it to only aggravate the issue: "Why is SO deleting/blocking people who want to talk about this issue? Is there a coverup?" That being said, it's conjecture, so I can't be certain for or against. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:35 | comment | added | Kevin B | What negative output though? I mean, yes, there's a few bad apples, or people who are having a bad day, but things don't look that dire around here to me. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:35 | comment | added | Makoto | The email issue is a problem unto itself. It is worth its own, separate analysis, which would also include a threshold of "why didn't people get a time-out moment for continuing to bash the company even AFTER they apologized and clarified what they'd do next" amongst the moderators. You raise other points which I'd like to respond to but can't exactly conjure up the words right now. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:34 | comment | added | TemporalWolf | @KevinB If I produce twenty times the average output, and I'm ten times less likely to produce negative output, I'm still producing twice as much negative output as the average. Is that clearer? The rate is much lower but the volume ends up higher. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:32 | comment | added | TemporalWolf | @Makoto I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at, so I'd welcome clarification if you're willing. That being said, I think the most recent email issue is indicative of a lot of these things, which is why I included it. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:31 | comment | added | Kevin B | I kinda got lost in that last bullet... it looks like you're talking about the vocal minority (veteran users), and about how much negativity they produce... are we looking at the same site? or am i misinterpreting? | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:26 | comment | added | Makoto | On further inspection, I find myself somewhat paralyzed by this answer - I can neither refute nor agree with it. Yes, there is a vocal minority of users on Meta. Yes, there is groupthink - kind of unavoidable in this setting, honestly. But I'm really not sure how objective you're being in this assertion. Emotion reigns supreme in communication, but it's important to never lose sight of perspective. I don't think your answer has much in the way of perspective... | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:23 | history | edited | TemporalWolf | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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Feb 21, 2019 at 22:15 | comment | added | Makoto | I kinda feel like this is just aimed at the whole email thing - I'm gonna lay this out there. Some people who kept fanning the flames should've been put on time-out. A lot of that was unnecessary and it isn't like they weren't entitled to an opinion, but when tempers flared, a few people should've just been removed from the conversation at that point since they weren't capable of being constructive. | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 22:05 | comment | added | rene | IANAL but I'll defend dogmatically that this is a good answer ... | |
Feb 21, 2019 at 21:55 | history | answered | TemporalWolf | CC BY-SA 4.0 |