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Feb 21, 2019 at 22:21 comment added jcsahnwaldt Reinstate Monica Tim, I read the question multiple times (and checked its edit history), and I don't see any evidence for "hate" or "rage". (Maybe mild "anger", if that.) Your answer sounds much angrier than the question. It was a perfectly normal, reasonable request: A user is disappointed with SO's reaction so far and asks for more information. I think you misread this quite badly. You should start again with a cool head and then maybe edit or delete your answer. Thanks.
Feb 20, 2019 at 21:53 comment added jhpratt Tim, the reason for my downvote on your answer is the same as @AnderBiguri. No where in the question was there any hint at a personal attack; that was something introduced by you on a whim. I would appreciate it if you simply answered the question at hand and nothing more. It is still unclear how much of your statement was approved by counsel, and how much of it was written solely by you.
Feb 20, 2019 at 4:49 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier @Trevor "We didn't [...] subject you to Amazon marketing." ftfy. Removing random words from sentences to make it say whatever ftw.
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S Feb 20, 2019 at 1:32 history notice added user3956566 Content dispute
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Feb 19, 2019 at 14:47 comment added user3956566 Mod note: Keep the comments pertinent to the topic discussion and do not make personal attacks against anyone, staff or not.
S Feb 19, 2019 at 14:47 history notice added user3956566 Comments only
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Feb 19, 2019 at 14:37 comment added Magisch @Houseman Not to put words in the mouth of anyone here, but you can expect that when a executive of a company makes a public statement like this, the counsel has probably approved it.
Feb 19, 2019 at 14:36 comment added Liam BTW anyone in the uk could probably take this matter up with the ICO I presume other bodies exist in most European countries
Feb 19, 2019 at 14:29 comment added DavidG @Liam The size of the company and the amount of investment are completely irrelevant. to this discussion, all companies have the same duty of care. As for the personal attacks, I have seen a couple directed at Tim, I don't recall where they were but they do exist. They may have since been removed though.
Feb 19, 2019 at 14:16 comment added user773737 "This wasn't a breach. This wasn't a leak." Is that the word of SO's legal council?
Feb 19, 2019 at 13:37 comment added Ctznkane525 As someone who works in a company in a heavily regulated industry, it's not appropriate to say "it won't happen again". What SPECIFIC steps have you taken to ensure it won't happen again? This could include an official approvals process concerning data going to the outside as one example. Don't take this personally. Getting to a root cause of a problem and finding long term solutions is just a necessary component.
Feb 19, 2019 at 13:10 comment added Mad Scientist There is a part you could confirm that might help to easy some concerns, if I understand it correctly. My reading of the SE ToS is that when SE passes along this data, the agreement with the relevant third-party is that the data is only used for this specific purpose. So it's not like SE hands out the data and the third party is free to do whatever they want with it.
Feb 19, 2019 at 12:35 comment added Douglas Reid "We didn't intend...subject you to Amazon marketing." Yet you did. It's fair to call that a leak.
Feb 19, 2019 at 12:32 comment added Ander Biguri I asked a question because I genuinely wanted to know, not to attack personally anyone. By you assuming that I am, you bring this to a different level of discussion, and now reading the comments everything seems to be about Users vs SO, rather than the original question about handling private data. I am somewhat disenchanted by this approach of solving the problem. I don't want to re-start discussion, just convey my final feelings about all this. I honestly appreciate your answer and your work in general. Thank you very much, and keep maintaining SO good, even if in this case we disagree.
Feb 19, 2019 at 12:32 comment added Ander Biguri Hi Tim. Now that some time has passed and hopefully we both see that this was nothing personal against you or anyone in particular in SO, let me made a small remark of something that has upset me a bit (just a bit, really, I am trying to be constructive): I have still my downvote in your answer because I think that bringing feelings to the discussion is not professional and you only hide the real information that both the question and the answer contain.
Feb 19, 2019 at 12:08 comment added AncientSwordRage Tim, based on Anita's answer it sounded like the quickest solution was used. You've said that you're not going to do that again. I think what people here are wanting is to know 'how' employees will be discouraged from using the 'quickest' solution next time, instead of the one that aligns with our expectations (if reasonable). Are you changing internal policy? Training courses? No hate here, I'm just trying to understand your companies processes.
Feb 19, 2019 at 8:09 comment added DonQuiKong @AnderBiguri I guess now you can only go ahead and report this as a breach to the authorities in your country. They may then decide if they agree with the assessment that this is no breach or not. Tim: no hate, simply disagreement. And as there is an easy way, at least for us users, to resolve the disagreement, that's what I would do if my data was involved.
Feb 19, 2019 at 6:47 comment added Sourav Ghosh Hey Tim, you , of all people, should understand this, posts and comments are for the topic being discussed, not the people. While some comments might have come out as a targeted statement, in good faith, I believe none of them actually is. Let's keep moving forward.
Feb 18, 2019 at 22:40 history edited Lightness Races in Orbit CC BY-SA 4.0
Actually, I've changed my mind. Apologies.
Feb 18, 2019 at 22:40 history rollback Lightness Races in Orbit
Rollback to Revision 1
Feb 18, 2019 at 22:38 history edited Lightness Races in Orbit CC BY-SA 4.0
Honestly this isn't personal (I certainly don't hate you!) and I'm sorry you're sad but none of that is relevant or necessary here IMO and you know you'd edit it out of someone else's answer!
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:52 comment added tweray There's nothing personal to you or Anita, maybe the mods are doing quite a good job but I don't see any personal attacks in the 3 related posts. And now a friendly suggestion, is it possible that it's just because your answer is made inside a less significant post instead of the origin thread that made it less visible, thus caused more questioning? Either way I suggest to calm down and not take it personally.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:29 comment added Tschallacka @YvetteColomb Feel free to start something up to get something clarified. All they need to do is list parties they share data with and what data in the privacy policy in general words. Not too hard to do. But I don't feel like adding more stress to Tim Post as he currently clearly is under due to these happenings. I'd rather let it rest and give Stack Overflow the room to do the right thing on their own.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:28 comment added user3956566 @Tschallacka sure. I didn't make myself clear. I still think you should take it to MSE. As it's clearly an issue of contention that should be cleared up. Perhaps ask a question? I think it would be helpful. As the discussion about it is hidden behind the answers to these two questions. It would be better to have a discussion specifically about what you're saying.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:28 comment added Tschallacka Comments here and Stack Overflow has no plausible deniability in that regard, not that that matters. I love Tim Post and all the work that he does and I am sure he will do all he can to make sure this headache dossier doesn't turn up on his desk in the future. GDPR is a pain in the behind, and I wish Stack Overflow to be spared of consequences. But it's really up to the legal department to do something. Discussions on Main Meta will only distract and polarize in my opinion. All that needed to be said has been said.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:25 comment added Tschallacka @YvetteColomb I only posted my comment here to point my point out to Tim Post due to his privacy policy comment. I am no lawyer, I've just had to deal extensively with the GDPR in my role at my company so I have a light grasp on what can and cannot be done. All I have to say is summarized in that answer and the comments below it and I grow tired of it. It is up to Stack Overflow legal to dive into this and to make sure stuff is done proper, which aparently is not the case with a lacking privacy policy. Stack Overflow can do something with it or leave it. Tim Post is officially informed by my
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:19 comment added user3956566 @Tschallacka Please take this discussion into its own meta post. Your answer here is food for thought and warrants its own discussion. Have a look here.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:09 comment added Tschallacka That's the thing @FélixGagnon-Grenier the USA and other countries may not have adopted these laws, but any website or company servicing people within the borders of Europe will be subject to these laws and corresponding fines. They can still be fined. If they won't pay those fines those companies may lose access to the European market, or they may be forced to pay the fines due to trade treaties. Will be interesting to see when the first fines will be dealt out and not paid what the repercussions will be.
Feb 18, 2019 at 20:06 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier Thanks for the links @Tschallacka. I am skimming through those, and I was already pretty aware of what is being said. I seem to find no correlation whatsoever with my question however. Nothing in there illustrates any kind of legislation these documents and laws hold over other countries, like USA, or any country not in the European union. I might have mispelled "other countries out of Europe", however.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:58 comment added Tschallacka @FélixGagnon-Grenier eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/… article 6, will be replaced with more stringent law. and then there is the GDPR gdpr-info.eu/issues/consent/#post-3913 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:55 comment added Ander Biguri @FélixGagnon-Grenier a genuine apology is not enough for me to trust that this wont happen again and that my data will be secure in the future. I hope it sounds less "entitled" this way. That is what I meant, sorry if it sounded differently. There is limited space in this tiny boxes.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:52 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier @AnderBiguri Well, you did write "[...] a genuine apology is not good enough for me." I'm not sure in how many other ways than asking for more that can be understood, but am willing to believe you.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:51 comment added Ander Biguri @FélixGagnon-Grenier apologies if it seemed I am asking for more, I am not. This is answered as much as they can/want. I however, do not believe it is entitlement to be upset at the way the data has been managed,. I personally do not trust corporations when they promise things, and this may be that I have trust issues, who knows, but its the way I am. And indeed I control the amount of information that I share with them! This is one of the main points of this question. I want to know how much information I am comfortable with sharing, therefore I was looking for an answer.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:50 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier @Tschallacka That sounds like a very uk based website. Does it hold any ground on other countries?
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:48 comment added Tschallacka @TimPost You realize that for that privacy policy to hold ground you have to detail with whom data is shared in general terms in your privacy policy for it to be valid? A line like "The minimal required data may be shared with Amazon for promotional purposes" Would have helped. Without the line with which third parties data is shared for which purpose in general terms it doesn't hold. lawscot.org.uk/members/business-support/… and I don't feel any hate towards you. I just like things to be done proper.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:48 comment added NathanOliver [Tangental] Shouldn't the section of the privacy policy Information from Third Parties be called Information Shared withThird Parties (I assume this is the section you answer is talking about)? That would make a lot more sense to me since you are the ones sharing it, not receiving it.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:47 comment added Jake Reece I particularly like this part of your answer: We screwed up... when our actions didn't coincide with your expectations... Sure, SO can help shape expectations, but we all accepted SO's privacy policy when we created an account. The onus is on the user to understand the Ts & Cs. If a user comes away from agreeing with the Ts & Cs thinking that SO can no-way-no-how-ever-ever-never-fornever share any sort of personal information for any reason whatsoever, then they either didn't read it (likely) or should have sought clarification before agreeing. SO can't fix purposeful ignorance.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:46 vote accept Ander Biguri
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:45 comment added TylerH @AnderBiguri Tim's post from the prior question about this covers the concern of precedent a bit. Just to be clear, have you read that response?
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:43 comment added Ander Biguri Unfortunately, while you see this as a personal issue, I see that a big corporation that has a fair amount of my personal data (you guys have my name, job, location, and for giveaway reasons, my home address too), a genuine apology is not good enough for me. When Facebook apologized (multiple times) no one trusted them, they are a big corporation. You guys (as a corporation) are acting similarly. It may be genuine, but in the world we live in, understand that I do not take at face value anything that a corporation says.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:40 comment added Ander Biguri Hey Tim, I know there is being a lot of hate towards you, but feel assured that its certainly not coming from my side. Neither have I hate towards Anita or anyone else in SO. I saw quite bad comments in the OP, I do not agree with any personal attack on you or anyone there. My data was not breached so I don't have any personal concerns. I do not think that there was anything treacherous in your actions. Apologies if anything I said suggested any of that. It is not how I feel. I am aware that my wording may sound bad now that I reread, it was not my intention to attack anyone personally.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:37 comment added jhpratt Are you claiming it's was necessary to share the emails with Amazon? Because I know full well that gift cards can be purchased and sent to people without Amazon ever receiving the recipient's email. With that regard, your privacy policy is irrelevant when it comes to GDPR.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:33 comment added Makoto For whatever this is worth, know that I at least value your time and energy in responding to these statements. I can only imagine how frustrating or tense it must be having to deal with this. Thank you.
Feb 18, 2019 at 19:27 history answered user50049 CC BY-SA 4.0