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Aug 29, 2019 at 14:21 history closed gnat
Jan Doggen
jhpratt
Stephen RauchMod
HaveNoDisplayName
Duplicate of How should we handle answers in a programming language other than what the OP requested?
Aug 29, 2019 at 13:15 review Close votes
Aug 29, 2019 at 14:21
Oct 19, 2018 at 19:13 comment added Braiam @Adriaan I got the perfect title for this question: What should we do about oranges?
Oct 19, 2018 at 4:12 comment added Ben Voigt @TinyGiant: Well actually I was confronting a below-the-belt attack against Hans... An attack from a user with a history of "doing their best to bypass consensus and just impose their will despite the fact it runs counter to consensus". Braiam habitually and repeatedly rejects consensus on NAA flags and this history is relevant to his reply to Hans. I'm not saying this is the same topic as NAA, but that it is not acceptable to handle this topic the way Braiam handled NAA in the past. Of course, my comment linking evidence has been deleted but the attack on Hans hasn't...
Oct 19, 2018 at 3:57 comment added user4639281 @BenVoigt by that I meant that you're the only one arguing about whether or not these should be flagged as NaA. Everyone else is arguing about whether or not such answers should be voted for deletion. Some people are saying that delete votes should only ever be used when NaA flags should be used and not in any other situations. My point is that all of this arguing is about the applicable criteria for delete votes, not NaA flags, while you're arguing that these answers are not NaA... which is entirely besides the point regardless of whether that is true or not.
Oct 19, 2018 at 2:46 comment added Ben Voigt @TinyGiant: That's "talking about NAA flags".
Oct 19, 2018 at 1:10 comment added user4639281 @BenVoigt what BSMP said plus this: I didnt say it wasn't NaA, I said that delete votes are not just NaA flags for users with 20k rep. I said that delete votes are for much more than what NaA flags are for.
Oct 18, 2018 at 18:06 comment added Braiam @BSMP got had the right mindset that I was quoting the help center, just got the wrong article. BTW, in all moments I was referring about reasons to delete answers, in no way I referenced the mechanism of deletion.
Oct 18, 2018 at 7:55 comment added BSMP There ought to be a FAQ expanding on when/how delete votes should be used because it doesn't seem like there's agreement on that.
Oct 18, 2018 at 7:48 comment added BSMP @BenVoigt I think it's because the privilege article on delete votes uses the same language as NAA flags: The answer is extremely low quality: There is little to no scope for improvement. The answer doesn't attempt to answer the question; it may be a comment or a separate question altogether.
Oct 18, 2018 at 6:45 answer added Lundin timeline score: 2
Oct 18, 2018 at 2:07 comment added Ben Voigt @TinyGiant: Every time I re-read Braiam's answer, it still contains the phrase "not even a (partial) answer". If that isn't the same as NAA I don't know what it is. And his comment under Servy's answer, and Servy's reply, are both discussing whether the answer merits deletion specifically on NAA grounds. And under the same answer, you mention that it isn't NAA, twice
Oct 18, 2018 at 0:17 comment added user4639281 @BenVoigt No one here is talking about NaA flags but you as far as I can see. These are answers that were deleted via delete votes from 20k+ rep users who reviewed the posts and voted to delete as was within their purview. The system handles consensus for us by requiring more than a single vote to delete things. The post you linked has absolutely nothing at all to do with delete votes.
Oct 17, 2018 at 18:55 answer added jpmc26 timeline score: 6
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:57 comment added ohmu @rene I just meant this in general. Not in relation to the SOCVR.
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:52 comment added rene @cpburnz while I agree that down votes are a strong and often underused moderation tool the rules of SOCVR strictly prohibit asking for down (or up) votes on specific posts. Just FYI.
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:38 comment added ohmu Don't be shy with your down-votes. Distribute them liberally.
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:29 comment added rene @HansPassant I don't want to babysit a chatroom and I can't judge if the caretakers are participating out of boredom or because they see the value of having a canonical library of Q/A;s. That said: I still think a lot of things go right and a few go wrong. A win here is that the things that do go wrong are noticed and are then discussed om meta. That should enable us to formulate guidance to the best of our abilities. I don't expect it ever to be easy but we'll keep trying for the next 6 to 8 weeks. I value your feedback, I'll see if I can transform that into something that is actionable .
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:27 comment added Braiam @BenVoigt have you seen an orange?
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:26 answer added Braiam timeline score: -13
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:15 comment added Ben Voigt @Braiam: Do they have hundreds of votes supporting their version of what "Not An Answer" means? The community consensus does. And again. In fact, that users supporting a competing idea of NAA were not supporting that interpretation on meta but simply flagging left and right was already a problem which Shog mentioned in his post (first link). Some things never change.
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:09 comment added Braiam @BenVoigt which consensus? What makes their voice less consensus-y than your group? If the 95% of the users doesn't care, 3% says delete and 2% say no, is that anywhere less valid?
Oct 17, 2018 at 15:02 comment added Ben Voigt @Braiam: In other words, we're talking about a group of users doing their best to bypass consensus and just impose their will despite the fact it runs counter to consensus. The "constructive" suggestion is that they need to take their proposed plan of action to Meta and respect the consensus decision.
Oct 17, 2018 at 14:53 comment added S.L. Barth is on codidact.com The question was asking for an algorithm? That is language-agnostic. Usually an OP tags it with the language they are working with - whether that's Java, C#, Python, Basic, or what-have-you. From the way you describe it, the question should not have a language tag at all.
Oct 17, 2018 at 14:24 comment added Braiam In other words, Hans has a beef with a group of users doing their best to shape the site how they consider is best for Stack Overflow, without suggesting anything constructive.
Oct 17, 2018 at 14:09 answer added Servy timeline score: 25
Oct 17, 2018 at 13:29 comment added Hans Passant @rene - I have a strong distaste for bored SO users that close a question because they don't understand the relevance or know the proper answer. That is rarely a problem with users that moderate content based on them frequenting a tag, they know the subject. It is a growing problem with the chatroom visitors. Ultimately a discipline problem, I guess, no idea how you'd tackle that. Just make sure the jackass that caused this disaster to never be let back in.
Oct 17, 2018 at 13:05 comment added rene @HansPassant the too broad close vote seems applicable here as beyond a problem description there is not much more to go on, aka lacking an attempt. Is your distaste for this closure caused by the fact that when asked these kind of question were kind of okay or is your concern more how interesting the question (and answers) about this algorithm can be? In the latter case can you give us some guidelines/rule of thumbs how we can spot these algorithm questions clear as a bell so we can re-adjust?
Oct 17, 2018 at 12:41 comment added rene I would argue that a question tagged with java is expected to have java answers. I didn't see anything in the question that suggested the java tag was wrong or unwarranted. By that fact Haskell and Python answers don't answer the question. As NAA flags will not work / are not meant for these cases I used my delete vote privilege to delete vote the answers. If those answers deemed valuable they can be reposted under a language specific question which offers lasting values for those looking for solution in that specific language.
Oct 17, 2018 at 11:52 answer added Stuart Whitehouse timeline score: 47
Oct 17, 2018 at 9:22 comment added Hans Passant It is a highly specific question about an algorithm, clear as a bell, the OP indicated his language preference. Yet the chatroom decided to close it as too broad. WTF? Either you consider it an algorithm question and the answer is on topic. Or you consider it a [java] question and it isn't too broad. You can't do both. Forcing moderators to disagree with each other is going to blow up sooner or later as well. Consider to limit the collateral damage a bit by not piling on downvotes. 4 users already voted to re-open, done.
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:46 comment added Adriaan @ivarni as stated I will not remove the java tag without cooperation from the OP as it would change their question. Yes, the question is too broad, but some of the answers do hold value, so I'd be fine with closing it and leaving as-is. Answers in non-Java would be noise here, however detailed and correct in their own language, because people would be looking for java solutions to the problem if they were to end up on that question. If they wanted a Python solution, they'd have searched for a question in Python instead.
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:42 comment added ivarni @Adriaan Absolutely, but you made it sound like you were deleting those answers because they were in a different language and not because the question was broad. Maybe just delete the question if that is the problem? Or remove the java-tag? Why just delete answers of potential value?
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:41 answer added Andrew Morton timeline score: 10
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:38 comment added Travis J So, just out of curiosity here, you agreed with other users in chat to coordinate downvoting and then deletion with a set of answers because they were viewed as "technically inaccurate"? The duplicate is correct here, just vote next time. Moderators do not cast binding delete votes based on technical accuracy, and neither should a group of users in chat.
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:29 answer added Ben Bloodworth timeline score: -3
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:21 comment added Adriaan @ivarni might be, but that does not change the fact that this question is too broad (so should not be answered in the first place) and that the OP put java there himself. A more generic question would then needed to be asked in another question, or the OP must change their question to be generic, since we'd change the meaning of it by changing the language to language-agnostic or something.
Oct 17, 2018 at 8:15 comment added ivarni If it's asking for a generic algorithm then surely answers in other languages than the tagged one can be useful for future visitors, for whom we build this site?
Oct 17, 2018 at 7:36 comment added Erik A Strongly related: If the question is specifically about a certain language, is an answer in another language valid? and the dupe target on that one. Not marking as a duplicate because I think a mod undeleting such an answer is a new thing and should be discussed.
Oct 17, 2018 at 7:26 history asked Adriaan CC BY-SA 4.0