Timeline for Should we say "vandalizing" to refer to defaced content?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
29 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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S Oct 13, 2018 at 16:01 | history | notice removed | CommunityBot | ||
S Oct 13, 2018 at 16:01 | history | unlocked | CommunityBot | ||
S Oct 9, 2018 at 22:27 | history | notice added | user3956566 | Comments only | |
S Oct 9, 2018 at 22:27 | history | locked | user3956566 | ||
Oct 9, 2018 at 21:05 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert You "believe." Yes, I know that. Now prove it. I question your statement as to peerage. What make you think that? Do you know anything about me? If you wish, I have been convinced by actions like downvoting, personal attacks, a lack of ownership of my own words, and so forth that my opinions have not even been considered. So, give me a reason to care about what you are saying. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 20:56 | comment | added | fbueckert | I believe SE's processes follows the most basic of the scientific method: it's subject to peer review, and, little by little, is modified to make it better. The fact that you're not willing to subject your proposal to peer review is telling. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 20:53 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert Perhaps you now understand why I began this comment stream by stating that I should not post anything here. I do understand SE's processes; they are deeply flawed. Science is not "I win" or "I lose." When anything is shown scientifically, we all stand to benefit because truth is good and trumps opinion. In so far as one is not seeking the truth, but just taking a popularity poll, one is documenting a mass dynamic, but when means that all the sheep are stampeding off of a cliff, I just won't be there to follow suit. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 20:39 | comment | added | fbueckert | So, I'm wrong, and you're right? That's where discussions break down. Try to understand SE's process before criticizing them. Until you do that, you won't have a very good reception. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 20:28 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert A circular argument. I do not have confirmation bias by reflexly postulating arguments to be hypothetical until overwhelmingly demonstrated. I am merely following scientific method the nature of which is to test hypotheses, be they thought experiments or social science postulates. I agree that the average assorted human publication does not use scientific method, and, given a choice, I would reject most of it, and in fact, in those fields for which I review, I often do. Inspect your assumptions, please. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 20:13 | comment | added | fbueckert | @Carl You also have to suspend your confirmation bias to believe it's a currently flawed practice. Works both ways. If you believe there is a better way, make an argument on Meta about it. I suspect it won't get a warm reception, however, as it completely ignores the value of downvotes, and assumes that the entire SE process is flawed by using them. I would handily disagree with that, but would invite you to make your case, if you don't mind the disagreement that comes with it. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:58 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert "Belief" although indispensable, would not be taken as admissible in the nature of a proof, only logic would be. In so far as the site does not vaunt logic as the solitary determinant of voting, so too is it flawed, logically. The argument you postulated is in favor of the status quo. One has to suspend disbelief to avoid the confirmation bias inherent to currently flawed practice. Confirmation bias has survival value, but it is not logical. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:47 | comment | added | fbueckert | @Carl That's why I said as close as possible; yes, there is a difference. For good reason, I believe. But once you get that privilege, it needs to require the exact set of rules that upvotes do. What is, "Truth value"? The point of a vote isn't to state objectively, "This is right" or, "This is wrong". It's meant to go, "I believe this post is right, good or useful", or, "I believe this post is wrong, not good, or not useful." Check the tooltip for more information. It's there so that we, as readers, can provide feedback as to our interpretation of the value of the content. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:27 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert In point of fact, currently downvoting on Cross Validated requires a reputation of 125 and upvoting only 15. Failure to recognize the relative paucity of a downvote vis-a-vis truth value discounts the effect of confirmation bias which is the single most grievous flaw of human mentation. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:24 | comment | added | E_net4 | I am certainly not taking it personally. :) Just pointing out what I feel is worth mentioning here. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:14 | comment | added | fbueckert | @Carl The barrier for upvoting and downvoting needs to be as close together as possible. Anything else skews the quality metric, generally in an undesirable way. If you raise the barrier for downvoting to requiring expertise, that's exactly where upvoting has to be, too. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:10 | comment | added | Carl | @E_net4 Do not take my comment as personal, it was not aimed at you. Consider this, we have a problem here with the shortcomings of democracy. Democracy works fine for recognizing a contribution (upvoting). However, negative interpretation and critical review (downvoting) is best left to more expert review because it requires suspending disbelief long enough to consider an exhaustive exploration of the hypothesis at hand. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:08 | comment | added | fbueckert | And? Down voting is a primary curation activity. Its the best tool we have to show a judgement of quality and utility. At no point is it personal. We can't stop you from taking it so, but we judge on the content, not the poster. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:05 | comment | added | Carl | @fbueckert I am speaking of a larger context about downvoting, not every site is neutral with respect to downvoting, in some of them downvoting loses reputation for its recipient which is the currency for that site. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:03 | comment | added | E_net4 | You could make that a separate question, but those concerns have already been discussed around Meta multiple times already, which makes it hard to bring something new and worthwhile to the table. My comment advising to delete the question being perceived as unkind is terribly subjective, for the record. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 19:01 | comment | added | fbueckert | Again, why is downvoting, "nasty"? Why is mass downvoting a hornet's nest? You're equating simple disagreement with mob behaviour, assuming that the perpetrators are rioting and causing damage. Why is a downvote, "vindictive"? You've got all these negative metaphors for what is, essentially, people not agreeing with you. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:58 | comment | added | Carl | @E_net4 I am not missing the point, I was attempting to make a point namely that unkindness, and excessive downvoting (mob behaviour) without due cause are some motives for wanting to delete a question, and the urge to protect oneself from said excesses is not 'vandalism'; it is common sense. That the OP cannot back away from a hornet's nest is hardly becoming. Nasty behaviour is never justified. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:48 | comment | added | E_net4 | Well, I actually stand corrected on that particular comment, as it was a bit off. However, this question is about the use of the term "vandalizing", not about that kind of comment. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:39 | comment | added | Carl | @E_net4 I quote "If you don't understand the business model don't volunteer your time here, or elsewhere." You see this as not being personal? You see this as not being unkind? Downvote all you like, I no longer care. I think I will refrain from further comment, this exceeds the bounds of civility. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:34 | comment | added | Kendra | Vandals to their own words? No, not quite. But vandals to the content licensed to Stack Overflow when they posted it? Yes, yes indeed. By purposefully making the content completely unrecognizable, the user "vandalizes" the content, and therefore the site, in a way. Please keep in mind that once you post content on the site... It's licensed to SO. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:32 | comment | added | E_net4 | Again, I fail to see how that is an ad hominem argument. I understand that you seem to be taking criticism as a personal attack, which does not show you in a good light. However, you cannot equate this to the main reason for the downvotes. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:28 | comment | added | Carl | @E_net4 See this question. A hypothetical argumentum ad hominem is not always a given. It was propositional. In one of the comments, the OP was indeed told to "shut up." | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:26 | comment | added | E_net4 | I also feel that there is some overreaction over the subject and the downvotes on your answer and following comment. Please be more reasonable. They represent disagreement, not that "you should just shut up". | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:23 | comment | added | E_net4 | It is not anti-democratic when we have a community-wide consensus that the edit was pointless and the question should have just been deleted. I also fail to see where the ad hominem argument occurred. | |
Oct 9, 2018 at 18:13 | history | answered | Carl | CC BY-SA 4.0 |