Timeline for The "Ask a Question" wizard should suggest *citing* existing similar questions
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
37 events
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Oct 8, 2018 at 14:57 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand I've had my questions edited enough to know that it's not. | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:55 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve in its most basic form, this feature would simply be new verbiage suggesting citing similar questions. An actual UI change would be something like "click to insert link" buttons, which would insert the proper markdown, just like the existing "add link" button. Neither of those would enforce a particular style. The reason I don't think enforcing a style is important is because, as you can tell from this conversation, style is pretty subjective. | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:44 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand Style needs to be part of the feature request. People who start on SO already don't know enough to ask a basic question, hence the wizard, so why would you expect them to know how to format it either? | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:40 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve Right; you're critiquing my personal style, which is not part of this feature request. | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:37 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand I mean it would be cleaner if the links explaining things were listed below the question as footnotes rather than in the question as semi-random words that flow within sentences, with the exception of the word "here". | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:33 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve You mean, if they're pre-populated in the question field somehow? I wasn't actually thinking that this feature would force a particular format on users. | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 14:27 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand I think where the links end up is an important part of the feature request. | |
Oct 8, 2018 at 7:31 | comment | added | Lundin | @KyleStrand Yes there are such lists at least for the major programming languages. But since SO doesn't have a working FAQ system, such lists are carefully hidden, in a different, non-standard way for each tag. For example C has a FAQ list below the tag wiki, C++ has a special meta tag c++-faq, some languages use external FAQ sites etc etc. | |
Oct 6, 2018 at 17:14 | comment | added | philipxy | People are unable and/or unwilling to explain their problem, it is only making things worse for them to explain themselves in terms of some different problem(s). | |
Oct 6, 2018 at 15:43 | comment | added | Ňɏssa Pøngjǣrdenlarp |
"cite prior research" is a pretty fundamental academic principle Sadly, SO now only gives lip service to the notion of aspiring to cater to those who might be familiar with things like academia - it is too hard to past from the University of YouTube. Besides, asking entitled millennials to do their own resereach, let alone document it, is probably considered "unwelcoming".
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Oct 6, 2018 at 13:28 | comment | added | Dan Bron | @KyleStrand My guess is gnat’s point is this: core users’ major complaint is the relentless tide of low-quality, under- or un-researched, unclear, too broad, non-topical, or subjective questions they’re asked to manage daily. Anything that would help stem that tide would be seen as a huge and welcome change for new users. I’d better help files for new users does that, then it’s also a huge benefit for core users. All the other features he mentioned (documentation, trams, channels, etc) are seen as tangential at best to Q&A to these same users, and therefore at best worth a mild shrug. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 23:36 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve Sorry, you think the issue of where in my example questions I cited existing questions is important? Or you think my feature request in general is important? Or something else? | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 23:35 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @gnat I don't yet understand why those in particular would fail to target "core users", any more than the new question wizard would. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 21:56 | comment | added | gnat | okay, just to name a few features that wouldn't count - new contributor indicator, left nav, code of conduct, Developer Story, Documentation, Teams, Channels, uniform site themes and responsiveness... | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 21:24 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand I think this is important, but I'm about to bounce so good luck! With a bit of finesse this could be a fantastic change. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 21:22 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve Since that's tangential to the issue at hand, agree to disagree, at least for now? | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:58 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand then I'd go with putting them at the bottom of your question. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:47 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve Putting them in the comments is right out, since it is consistently reinforced that comments are ephemeral, and auxiliary information about the question always belongs in the question itself. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:36 | comment | added | user5451396 | @KyleStrand Having a link to other materiel definitely enriches your questions, but the things you choose to name your hyperlinks are awkward IMO. I think it would be better if you introduced the link differently or added some links in the comments that way you could clearly explain what they were. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:30 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Lundin Is there actually a list of such "canonical" questions? Also, I've always found the "similar questions" list to be really good; in my experience, it's often better than the normal search bar (I believe there's even a Meta.SO question requesting that the search bar behavior be changed so that the results match the "similar questions" list). | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:21 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @Steve Here are some examples of questions in which I've cited existing questions to help clarify: one, two, three, and four (which did turn out to be a duplicate, but not of the question I cited). I think the citations help; do you disagree? | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 20:09 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @gnat I don't understand; you wrote the post in which the phrase "core users" was defined to mean "users who care most" or, clicking through to the linked post, "some group of users that cares more than average about the integrity and success of the group as a whole". So, obviously, "new users" doesn't count as part of this "core user" group. Do you just mean that everybody, including the core users, will benefit from there being fewer bad questions from new users? If that's the case, what kind of feature wouldn't count as a "core user" feature? | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:31 | comment | added | gnat | @KyleStrand feature helping new users learn how to properly use site is exactly the kind of change for core users | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:28 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @gnat This is not a change for "core users", who already know how to ask good questions. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:20 | comment | added | gnat | @TylerH feel free to keep your head in the sand, just don't act surprised that more and more people lose their illusions. Even those who seemed relentlessly hopeful in the past | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:16 | comment | added | TylerH | @gnat Devs and CMs have been very clear about the fact they are busy working on other things, and yes, there is some anecdotal evidence of some employees dismissing meta feedback, but that is not the same as "users are asking about it on meta, therefore we should NOT do it", and because we have not seen work done on X feature in Y years does not mean we never will. Hans should well know that it is easy to get bogged down in what you think might be 'incremental improvements' and that you really do have to do what your boss tells you, not what people on Meta ask for. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:15 | comment | added | Dan Bron | @gnat So the idea is “Meta is relentlessly negative, so we can ignore feedback wholesale”? I’m not disputing what he said, I simply can’t parse it. Somehow the phrasing confuses me. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:14 | comment | added | gnat | @DanBron ^^^ check the link referred to above "Often (and more often recently) I've heard colleagues dismiss meta feedback..." | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:13 | comment | added | gnat | @TylerH why do you think it's cynical? To me it sounds realistic: "There is no doubt we've stopped making changes for core users..." | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:09 | comment | added | Lundin | While this sounds good in theory, implementing it in practice seems cumbersome and will possibly be confusing both for the OP and the readers. Something that would be better than today, was if the site spat out suggestions from posts listed as canonical dupes by the community, rather than what seems to match text search on the title. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 14:01 | comment | added | user5451396 | I actually view this as annoying spam while it's actually in the question. Users will add it to the comments anyway and it's rarely important. Aside from that prior research for me is usually a lot more than just stack overflow. Suggesting that I drop 10-15 loosely related links from google as well as copy paste slack conversations about my question every time I ask a question is pretty ridiculous IMO. | |
Oct 5, 2018 at 1:35 | comment | added | TylerH | @DanBron He's just being cynical and saying up is down. | |
Oct 4, 2018 at 23:50 | history | edited | Kyle Strand | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
I can grammar, I promise
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Oct 4, 2018 at 23:49 | comment | added | Kyle Strand | @HansPassant As you may already know, there a prototype of the new wizard has been available for quite some time now, and the last "monthly update" (which was posted in August) promised that they'd have an "experiment" running by early September (though I'm guessing that's been postponed). | |
Oct 4, 2018 at 22:45 | comment | added | Dan Bron | @HansPassant Can you elaborate on what you mean by they take Meta criticism as the reason not to do it? They want to do it wholesale, not in pieces? | |
Oct 4, 2018 at 22:18 | comment | added | Hans Passant | How to improve the Ask Question page has been talked about, and promised, for years. We're still waiting. Right now they take meta criticism as a valid reason to not do it, hard to win when incremental improvements have been lacking for so long. | |
Oct 4, 2018 at 22:06 | history | asked | Kyle Strand | CC BY-SA 4.0 |