Timeline for What does our long term community need? What does our long term community need to feel valued?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
14 events
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Aug 29, 2018 at 21:16 | comment | added | Andy | "This is an existential crisis, a battle for the meaning of Stack Overflow. But does it need to be? Is your daily interaction with the site profoundly changed? For the worse?" No, but I remember having to search on forums and newsgroups for tech help. It was possible of course, but SO is so much nicer. Without SO, I'd manage, but my job could be a bit more frustrating. Actually with the quality problems, that's already started to happen. | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 13:39 | comment | added | duplode | "I just wonder if they're...I don't know, objective doesn't feel like the right word but its the best I can come up with right now" -- It is very much emotional, indeed. (Right now I'm looking at a recent comment thread that is a crystalline illustration of that -- I won't link to it to avoid putting folks on the spot.) The presumption implicit in at least some people's views about that seems to be that experienced users, unlike newcomers and outside critics, have earned the right to be emotional about it due to their investment on the site. | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 4:33 | history | edited | Peter Mortensen | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Active reading. [<http://stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance> (the last section)].
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Aug 27, 2018 at 21:52 | comment | added | jscs | Sure, I'll personally cop to not being completely objective. I feel very invested in this place, and I'm quite frustrated by things that are happening. I know that charitable interpretation is not my default mode right now. So I've been taking some time off. (Obviously with the exception of the last day or so.) | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 21:08 | comment | added | Jared Smith | @fbueckert perhaps I was unclear, I don't think they're wrong to feel that way. I just wonder if they really feel that way, as in "I understand all the tradeoffs and motivations and don't impute any undue ill will but this just ain't my jam anymore" or if they've been swept up in a current of negativity (very hard to avoid). The black/white framing of the issue and high emotions are understandable, I just wonder if they're...I don't know, objective doesn't feel like the right word but its the best I can come up with right now. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 21:05 | comment | added | Jared Smith | @JoshCaswell reasonable. I certainly don't argue that the whole roll-out wasn't...ham-handed. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:59 | comment | added | jscs | «taking this personally» Well, it's sort of a simple syllogism. The Tour, among others, says things like "Stack Overflow is [...] built and run by you." The blog post says "Stack Overflow is unwelcoming!" Conclusion? "You are unwelcoming". Is this a completely fair and rational interpretation? Not entirely. But even those who don't want feelings to be involved in any way on SO still have them. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:49 | comment | added | fbueckert | Well, your post seems to be needlessly challenging, then; you're minimizing the change as just one more thing to deal with. Like it or not, this is the last hill they want to climb before writing off the site entirely. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:44 | comment | added | Jared Smith | @fbueckert I certainly don't blame them. I wish them well. I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: are the shared values really gone? Or have they just been re-prioritized? To what extent? I don't think the site shares my values as much as it used to, but for my $0.02 the gap isn't wide enough yet for me to "abandon ship" to borrow a metaphor. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:36 | comment | added | fbueckert | It has less to do with this single change, than it being the straw that broke the camel's back; users are exhausted at the changes coming down the pipe, and their voice seems to be ignored. Add in the additional perception that many SE employees seem to think that established users and their focus on quality are the problem (see the welcoming blog kickoff and Nick Larsen's response), and many are asking themselves if it's still worth trying to contribute to a site that doesn't share their values anymore. And I don't think I can blame them for that. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:18 | comment | added | Jared Smith | And as for "made out to be the villian", I frequently see that claimed on blogs, but I have interpreted the official line as "we need to statistically shift the trend on thousands and thousands of interactions" not "witch hunt some troublemakers". Am I wrong? | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:16 | comment | added | Jared Smith | @Radiodef that seems a fair (if pessimistic) reading of history, and certainly explains some of the moaning and groaning. SO probably has gotten worse on some dimensions. I guess for me, as far as my participation on the site goes, I chalk it up to fundamental tradeoffs often implicit in these kinds of decisions. Sometimes the tradeoff goes your way, and sometimes it doesn't, and there's definitely a point at which it's no longer worth participating. But people seem to be taking this personally, in a way I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:09 | comment | added | Radiodef | I think a lot of what the community is reacting to is the sentiment of e.g. asking for better moderation tools for years, being ignored a lot, sometimes even having tools taken away (see: min. understanding close reason), and then being made out as the villain in this latest bunch of updates. It's not that people don't want to be nice, it's that the company is acting in a way that lots of people find demoralizing. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 19:46 | history | answered | Jared Smith | CC BY-SA 4.0 |