Timeline for What does our long term community need? What does our long term community need to feel valued?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
76 events
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Jun 3, 2020 at 15:29 | history | edited | CommunityBot |
Commonmark migration
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Jan 10, 2019 at 14:47 | comment | added | bharal | hey, i've been thinking the same thing - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/378837/… - i'd like to talk more about this with you. | |
Oct 3, 2018 at 15:29 | comment | added | user3956566 | @TerryCarmen I agree with you. I'm don't have an alternate solution, but as it is it feels like entering a court room at times. Personally it can be tiring. | |
Oct 3, 2018 at 15:19 | comment | added | Terry Carmen | @YvetteColomb What SO needs is "less process". Upvotes, down votes, votes to close, delete, review, edit, improve, criticize, tag, etc. New users come here because they need an answer they can't find on their own, but what they end up with (still) is a bunch of flack over not asking the question the right way or not asking the right question. It seems like the site would be better off if the users could talk to each other but not pass judgement. "If you don't like a question don't answer it" coupled with a "report an a-hole" button would go a long way towards fixing everything. | |
Sep 16, 2018 at 10:07 | answer | added | iBug | timeline score: 9 | |
Sep 4, 2018 at 16:41 | answer | added | Daniel Pryden | timeline score: 22 | |
Sep 1, 2018 at 18:34 | answer | added | ivan_pozdeev | timeline score: 21 | |
Aug 31, 2018 at 15:47 | vote | accept | CommunityBot | ||
Aug 31, 2018 at 14:36 | answer | added | Lundin | timeline score: 160 | |
Aug 31, 2018 at 1:21 | answer | added | jxh | timeline score: -19 | |
Aug 30, 2018 at 3:06 | answer | added | bmargulies | timeline score: 25 | |
Aug 29, 2018 at 16:47 | comment | added | fbueckert | @Plutonix That's actually the exact process that most people figured would happen. So I'm not at all surprised that less commenting is happening. | |
Aug 29, 2018 at 8:10 | answer | added | Flimm | timeline score: 9 | |
Aug 29, 2018 at 7:34 | answer | added | Sayse | timeline score: 30 | |
Aug 29, 2018 at 6:32 | answer | added | Raedwald | timeline score: 54 | |
Aug 29, 2018 at 1:40 | comment | added | jxh | Wow, all this drama. I am happy not to be following the blogs. | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 17:40 | comment | added | user3956566 | @LucianoFCastelfranchi a wise and long user said that the site didn't know what users wanted. So I explicitly put it out there. A sweeping together of what's been going on, so the network can come and clearly see what's grating us. 18 answers and growing. Also note worthy I got feedback, they're looking at these issues. I tell you, if they don't I too will throw my hands up in the air. From a long chat with Catija, I think it will be ok. | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 15:43 | comment | added | CD001 | @YvetteColomb "Let's face it downvotes feel bad" ... they shouldn't. I've been hammered by "Your Common Sense" a couple of times in the past, he can be acerbic and occasionally cryptic with his comments (e.g. just "that won't help" - so I had to work out where I'd gone wrong) - but he's rarely wrong... so if I write an answer that's wrong/bad, I'm at fault and I don't take any offence when appropriately downvoted for it - remember, offence can only ever be taken, not given. I rarely ask questions as there are already answers for everything I've needed to ask. | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 15:21 | comment | added | Ňɏssa Pøngjǣrdenlarp | Methinks the hand waving may back fire. I watched 4 bad posts yesterday (varying levels and type of crap) all from hand wavers. All got DVed and closed but no one said a single thing as to why which struck me as very unusual. So, given that some people see DVs as "vicious", a form of "attack", a source of suffering (SUFFERING!), they at least do learn why the DVs/closure. People seem less inclined to engage with the hand wavers | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 14:50 | answer | added | canon | timeline score: 68 | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 14:25 | answer | added | the_lotus | timeline score: 4 | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 9:18 | answer | added | Tadeusz Kopec for Ukraine | timeline score: 37 | |
Aug 28, 2018 at 6:17 | history | edited | user3956566 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
linked Post by Post that is relevant to discussion
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Aug 27, 2018 at 21:13 | comment | added | Michael | @YvetteColomb: I did keep a copy of course. But I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to post it anywhere. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 21:12 | comment | added | user3956566 | @Michael shame. You didn't keep a copy in a text editor? | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 21:08 | comment | added | Michael | I wrote a long answer with 1167 words, but in the end I figured that it didn't really answer your question, so I didn't post it. But I don't wanna remain completely silent, so I'm just posting a small excerpt, here as comment -- "What does our long term community need?" Well, it doesn't need new users ;) Let's make this a community where you need an invitation from an existing user to join... | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:57 | vote | accept | CommunityBot | ||
Aug 27, 2018 at 21:02 | |||||
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:56 | answer | added | Robert Columbia | timeline score: -1 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:51 | answer | added | Kevin B | timeline score: 18 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:44 | comment | added | user3956566 | @KevinB the question is a broad catch all for people to give their thoughts about the situation. So I politely disagree :D | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:30 | comment | added | Kevin B | I didn't feel like it was an answer to the question that was asked | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:28 | comment | added | user3956566 | @KevinB Please craft an answer with your comments. It's so good to have this type of diversity | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 20:18 | answer | added | MonkeyZeus | timeline score: 54 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 19:46 | answer | added | Jared Smith | timeline score: 13 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 19:41 | comment | added | Kevin B | ... The bigger problem I see is the negative perception caused by downvotes. Downvotes are a very important part of how stack overflow functions/operates, and as such it's a rather difficult problem to solve. Nothing has been done yet towards solving that problem (plenty of things are in the works) and i'm not sure if there even is anything we can do about that problem short of educating the user asking the question before the question is asked or released to the wild | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 19:39 | comment | added | Kevin B | eh, WRT the "long term community" being left out of the current discussion... it's by design. Not because we don't matter, but because the changes being made aren't for us. I understand people being upset about that and feeling like we're being left out in the cold or being blamed for the negative perception, but that's simply not what is happening. Feedback from existing users isn't near as helpful to solving the perception problem as feedback from the users who have said negative perception. ... | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 16:40 | answer | added | Dalija PrasnikarMod | timeline score: 23 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 14:24 | answer | added | AndyMod | timeline score: 61 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 10:35 | answer | added | Tschallacka | timeline score: -6 | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 6:28 | comment | added | user3956566 | @AndrewT. yes totally agree and it's a good point. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 6:27 | comment | added | Andrew T. | @YvetteColomb I certainly agree with your statement. I just only want to warn that flagging for every posts that they feel they get unwarranted downvotes (1 or 2 or 3 downvotes by different users?) won't be fruitful... | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 6:23 | comment | added | user3956566 | @AndrewT. mods can see voting patterns between user. So we can see X is excessively downvoting Y. The team can see exactly who has voted on what. Patterns or not. We can remove some votes, via sock puppet account deletion. If it's a case of voting fraud that hasn't been reversed, we hand it over to the community team. People are welcome to raise mod flags if they suspect foul play in voting on their or someone else's account. | |
Aug 27, 2018 at 6:18 | comment | added | Andrew T. | @codebeginner except flags are not for that. Mods can't see who downvote, and they can't invalidate votes on a post. Flagging a post because it gets "unwarranted" downvotes won't help anyone. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 22:41 | answer | added | ForceBru | timeline score: 29 | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 18:36 | comment | added | code beginner | @Yvette. than you for the information on the flag. I think are referring to the gray word that says flag. when you hover over it, the message says this: "flag this post for serious problems or moderator attention". if so, i didn't realize this could also be used as a cry for help if you are being attacked with unwarranted downvoting. so this language on the hover over, would make that clear: "flag this post for serious problems, moderator attention, or unwarranted downvoting". | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 18:04 | comment | added | user3956566 | @codebeginner users extricating themselves from post bans is something that concerns me. There's genuine users who make false starts and need a helping hand to catch up to speed. Please feel free to write an answer here. It's good to get down all our concerns. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 18:02 | comment | added | user3956566 | @MartinJames without looking at the question (oh k I'll look at it) downvote it, close vote it, delete vote it, walk away. Yep it looks like a complete homework or exam question. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 18:02 | comment | added | code beginner | @Yvette. If you get downvoted too much, you then get blocked from the site. That discourages participation. It especially discourages helping others. You help someone, then a person visciously downvotes your help for no good reason. Then your reputation score lowers, which puts you closer to being blocked. My point is that there is insufficient scrutiny regarding downvoting. People should be thinking "is it really necessary to downvote this, or am I just being fussy and grumpy?" Downvoting should be seen as something that has cost, not just benefit. Right now, i don't get that feeling. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:53 | comment | added | user3956566 | @codebeginner please feel free to craft an answer. I'm not against the idea of throttling downvotes. There does come a point where if a post is downvoted so much, perhaps it should just be deleted. There's only so much punishment a user can take. Let's face it downvotes feel bad. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:51 | comment | added | Martin James | @codebeginner example please? The thing is, up/down voting is a necessary mechanism for quality control on SO. Would you believe that some users have never downvoted anything at all? | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:49 | answer | added | jscs | timeline score: 98 | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:48 | comment | added | user2100815 | @code " i ask a perfectly reasonable question" - you think it is reasonable, many others don't. This is the basic problem here. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:47 | comment | added | Martin James | @YvetteColomb yes, I'm so, so tired of the whole issue. The buzzwords like 'welcoming', 'hostile', 'elitist', rude' etc. now just have me moving to the next post. I can no longer be bothered to reply. I can't even be bothered to close/delete the Sunday Slavery any more:( | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:44 | comment | added | Ňɏssa Pøngjǣrdenlarp | It seems to me the task ought to be to "make" better new users who ask good questions. This is the job of SO, not the users who act as tag curators. One key way - and one the site has done horribly for a long time - would be to prepare new users with some tips/bullet points on making good posts. Rather than abstract items, use the VTC list and top reasons posts are DVed: no code, image of code, too broad, no question, dupes, tools etc link requests and the like. If they read and act on it, great they should have a better experience. If not, its not my problem. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:43 | comment | added | code beginner | i find the down-voting to be viscious. i ask a perfectly reasonable question and someone downvotes it. i post a high-quality solution to a person's concern, and it gets downvoted. so you get downvoted when you ask, downvoted when you answer. people often behave in a hyper-critical way around here. it is toxic, and i am not joking. how about putting a throttle on down-voting? for example, you only get to downvote once per three months? or how about this type of message: "attention: you down-vote too often. please be more sparing in your down-voting, or your down-voting will be blocked". | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:39 | comment | added | user3956566 | @Cœur I'd actually like that :D | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:31 | comment | added | user2100815 | @ Cœur They did that - I got one! See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/53172/… | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 17:28 | comment | added | Cœur | Send a free T-shirt to all fanatic members. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:46 | comment | added | user3956566 | @NeilButterworth aha yes read my answer meta.stackoverflow.com/a/373166/3956566 I suspect that the network traded views, site landings for quality as a source of revenue. Now they're ruing the day. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:29 | comment | added | user2100815 | @gnat Yes, I read that, but it's not clear how they are monetizing. For example, if they are doing on advertising for hiring very inexperienced versus very experienced programmers. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:29 | answer | added | user3956566 | timeline score: 101 | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:17 | comment | added | gnat | @NeilButterworth I think they attempted an explanation in this answer at MSE. Per my reading they consider current attrition rate concerning and believe that in longer run this will cause problems monetizing the site, so they try to figure how to improve this: "if we don't control this rate, we could (much sooner than later) say that the whole market uses, has tried and stopped using, or won't try our sites..." | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:08 | comment | added | Makoto | @NeilButterworth: I don't know how we get monetization from "new user icon". They don't care if you run ad blockers. You get reduced adverts at a specific privilege level. The major things that they sell right now are Careers and Teams. None of that has to do with the individual sites' ability to monetize for the network. (Yes, I know that Careers are linked to SO, but you don't have to be active on SO to benefit from it.) | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 16:02 | comment | added | user2100815 | Isn't the elephant in the room the fact that we don't know how SE is monetizing the people that use the site. If we had more information on that, we (old users) might be more sympathetic to their problems - obviously, the site has to be paid for, and make a proffit for its investors, but its far from obvious that what they are doing at the moment will accheive this. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:54 | comment | added | user3956566 | @DavyM This is my last stand. There's been mammoth effort from the core users to help the site and it's too hard. Plus being insulted when trying to help really grates. It's like well. I'm not being paid and there's other things I enjoy in my life. I don't really need to come here and be downvoted and insulted. So.. well yeh. One last ditch effort. See what comes from it and decide.. do I want to keep trying here or spend more time doing other things. Which I think is what a lot of us are thinking. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:52 | comment | added | user3956566 | @jpp you might be right. But if there's not enough "quality" users coming into the site, maybe it's time for us to realise our days are numbered. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:51 | comment | added | Davy M | @YvetteColomb Don't be offended at an immediate downvote. There are people feel that any discourse about the whole Welcoming project isn't listened to and is therefore useless, so it can make perfect sense to mark this question as not useful based on the title alone. I didn't downvote it basically for the same reason why I mentioned in my answer that I haven't given up on Stack Overflow yet, but I can completely understand someone who would downvote it instantly. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:51 | comment | added | user3956566 | @Makoto that is well put! Yes I actually agree with the shape up, it was needed. I have no issue with the site enforcing aggressive change and even leaving us out of the discussion, but only if they are implementing change to help their core user base and they better tell us - How we do things has changed so we stop wasting our energy. It's like the workings of the site has changed and we need to know exactly where we stand. That way we can decide. Should I stay or should I go. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:48 | comment | added | jpp | I think we're barking up the wrong tree. More and more users are not "professional or enthusiast" programmers. They are programmers out of necessity, working on school projects or an ad-hoc task in a non-programming role. Is the attrition rate in itself a bad thing? What I'd like to see is the attrition rate for those posting well-meant questions [no laundry lists]. Subjective, but important to differentiate. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:44 | comment | added | Makoto | @YvetteColomb: Everyone seems to have freaked out behind the blog post and the CoC changes. (Oh yeah, I should add that below...) By and large the changes are realistically in-line with everything we've already done, but the tone and force in which the changes are coming feel like the long-standing members are just being...left out of the discussion as to the direction of the site. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:40 | answer | added | Davy M | timeline score: 159 | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:37 | comment | added | user3956566 | A high rep user said to me they thought the network needed to ask people what they wanted and needed. So I did. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:24 | comment | added | user3956566 | @MartinJames I don't know about you, but I'm tired. Is it my imagination or has the site been rocky since the blog? I cannot tell real well as it coincided with me becoming mod and that was a change in itself. | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 15:21 | comment | added | Martin James | I've got nuthin'. Many suggestions have already been made on meta, and I have no hope that any new and useful ones will be added now. Makoto sums it up reasonably below:( | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 14:36 | answer | added | Makoto | timeline score: 253 | |
Aug 26, 2018 at 13:47 | history | asked | user3956566 | CC BY-SA 4.0 |