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Aug 24, 2018 at 20:52 comment added Eaten by a Grue @gnat - nothing wrong with moderation in moderation. In this case though, the established users are literally bending over backwards to express their dislike of this new feature. I just came from reading meta.stackexchange.com/questions/314287/… where there are literally thousands of upvotes on answers comlaining about the new indicator. And even here we can see the top voted answer shares an (off topic) "personal opinion" of disdain. This hardly falls into the category of upvoting the easy stuff or losing focus on substantive content
Aug 24, 2018 at 20:30 comment added gnat @billynoah FWIW site founder pointed here that voting system has limitations and should be complemented by a moderation: "in the absence of any moderation, the community would do nothing but add and upvote the easy, fun stuff. This is why community moderators have real power; they need that power to intervene, educate, and refocus the community's exuberance on more substantive content..."
Aug 24, 2018 at 17:16 comment added Eaten by a Grue If the system was in place then it would matter. If the site owners ignored it then it wouldn't be a system that was in place.
Aug 24, 2018 at 17:12 comment added user6655984 @billynoah Because that system would not matter. This site has owners who decide what gets implemented. (It's not us.)
Aug 24, 2018 at 17:10 comment added Eaten by a Grue Imo, one of the greatest features of the whole SE network is the democratic nature of the voting system. If it's clear that a majority is in favor of something, it makes it much easier to put aside my own opinion and go with it. Conversely, if there is overwhelming opposition expressed by our users to something that's been implemented without being put to any kind of vote, you are going to get some backlash. This is now off topic, but I'm wondering why we don't have a voting system in place to approve or discard decisions about what gets implemented in the mechanics of the site.
Aug 24, 2018 at 17:04 comment added Jean-François Fabre Mod I once thought it was "don't hit me". Seriously.
Aug 24, 2018 at 16:28 comment added user3956566 @jpmc26 true. I honestly don't know what the solution is. I'm not sure anyone does. What a mess.. sigh
Aug 24, 2018 at 16:19 comment added jpmc26 @YvetteColomb Consider the snipes at the policy a form of civil disobedience, kind of like the 60s sit ins. It's people demonstrating, "No, I am not going to follow your destructive policy, and I'm not leaving either. But I'm going to disobey without hurting anyone."
Aug 24, 2018 at 16:09 history edited Eaten by a Grue
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Aug 24, 2018 at 16:07 comment added user3956566 .../ moderate through discussion on how to improve things, rather than just suspending long time users who are being chased by flags. As for new people who come to the site and abuse people without any positive contribution, I'm kick to suspend. All the others in between trying to learn or work as programmers who get stuck, well, it's a cross between being a lifeguard and a policewoman. (not just as a mod, as a person)
Aug 24, 2018 at 16:05 comment added user3956566 @Marco13 frankly it is very difficult. I feel hogtied (for want of a better expression) and it's not exclusive to the site (pun intended). We live in a world where everyone gets a participation award and children are not being prepared for the reality of holding down a job. We're so bound up with how we can say things, that we're going to need law degrees just to say hello to each other. I find myself communicating less and less with people and spending more time with my horses :D They don't argue semantics. I am patient with our user base who are struggling with how to talk. Trying to .../
Aug 24, 2018 at 13:51 comment added Marco13 @YvetteColomb Offtopic, but: You might now start to see one problem with the "welcoming" discussion where you took a clear stance several times: When someone writes a question of which you are deeply convinced that is is a form of "trolling" (or maybe just "stupid"), and articulate that, and then have to apologize for what you considered to be absolutely justified, you end up at the point where you doubt whether you may express your thoughts freely, any time, at all. For me, that feels somewhat restricting and "arbitrarily oppressive". It's really difficult, that's for sure...
Aug 24, 2018 at 10:59 comment added Jean-François Corbett "Talk to the hand"
Aug 24, 2018 at 10:13 comment added gnat @Dukeling no, to me it reads as start of counting years until request to get rid of this indicator will be implemented, and we're apparently 5 years from that moment now (see Let's stop displaying a user's accept rate - probably some just can't learn from past mistakes)
Aug 24, 2018 at 9:38 answer added Marco Salerno timeline score: 7
Aug 24, 2018 at 6:27 comment added Lundin @NathanHinchey But someone failed to distribute the picture to the SO community, so I guess we stick with the almost universal interpretation.
Aug 23, 2018 at 17:20 vote accept Eaten by a Grue
Aug 23, 2018 at 17:06 comment added Nathan Hinchey @Lundin even those meanings aren't universal. Take for example this image distributed by the US Marine Intelligence Agency. (Found in this blog post)
Aug 23, 2018 at 16:59 answer added Nathan Hinchey timeline score: 34
Aug 23, 2018 at 15:43 comment added RyanfaeScotland Could be a stylised Dove, to symbolise peace? Similar to shutterstock.com/image-vector/hand-dove-holy-spirit-318500816
Aug 23, 2018 at 14:07 comment added Mohan Radhakrishnan A nice, pink and chubby hand would have been nice.
Aug 23, 2018 at 3:09 comment added martin I honestly thought it was applause the first time I saw it.
Aug 22, 2018 at 20:17 comment added Bernhard Barker I'm pretty sure it's Stack Overflow threateningly raising its hand to remind us that disobedience will not be tolerated.
Aug 22, 2018 at 20:17 comment added Andrew Morton Would it be better as an animated GIF? Although I'm not sure how well that would work if people zoomed in to the page, but then I suppose they could read the text instead.
Aug 22, 2018 at 20:13 comment added GrumpyCrouton @jpp I wave "hello" to people pretty regularly.
Aug 22, 2018 at 19:38 answer added jpeg timeline score: 16
Aug 22, 2018 at 19:30 comment added canon It looks like a drowning hand (seen from above) with water ripples around it. Might as well change it to a life-preserver.
Aug 22, 2018 at 18:57 comment added j08691 Can we have an icon, perhaps of a walker, for the old, decrepit users like myself? You know, the ones who ache when they get out of bed in the morning.
Aug 22, 2018 at 17:21 comment added Peter Mortensen Another theory: from the EEVBlog signature (one of surprise?) - see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4lIkonz7Rw (from the original picture, shown at the very end - the last 20 seconds).
Aug 22, 2018 at 16:28 answer added user177800 timeline score: 22
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:38 comment added user3956566 @billynoah to be fair to you. I came here looking at the flag on the answer. The trend at the time in the comments and that answer made me think it was a bashing type of post. I really am sorry. I'm glad we sorted it out.
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:36 comment added Eaten by a Grue @YvetteColomb - thanks for your understanding. Maybe I have a weird way of seeing things but it truly was my first thought. I can see how the Jean-Luc Picard answer might have rubbed someone the wrong way but to me it was funny. The staff here have to deal with a lot of flack and covering one's face in despair might be any sane person's reaction.
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:36 comment added Kevin B I mean... the teams ad is still a teams ad rather than a link, directly in the navbar... who else puts ads in the navbar?
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:27 comment added user3956566 @intentionallyleftblank yeh, the post has shaped up well. At the start it didn't look so good. With a joke answer highly upvoted and I misconstrued the question. I don't think SE is ignoring us. Theyr'e actually addressing many of out concerns and rolling them out. It seems they've changed tact and are doing it without asking exactly how. I think that's largely a good thing, as it's hard to get us all to agree. One thing we do agree on, is the problems. Besides if they roll our something we hate, they are quick to change it. Re, the not relevant comment debacle of 2018 :)
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:23 comment added user3956566 @billynoah after reading the comments and straining hard. I can actually see how you may have thought it was applause. I honestly couldn't see it and took it for sarcasm. I apologise for maligning you. Yes assuming good faith has been mentioned. A good thing for me work at.
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:14 comment added Eaten by a Grue @ErikvonAsmuth - That's a really interesting angle I hadn't even considered. Just want to say I don't necessarily think the vagueness is a problem though... icons don't have to have a single crystallized meaning to be effective. As mentioned in my question, I wasn't sure if the creator meant to leave things a bit open ended, imply multiple meanings (as interpreted by Snow below) or if they in fact have a single, specific intention.
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:14 answer added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier timeline score: -3
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:58 comment added jpp Is it a "goodbye"? I mean, I've never seen a "hello" wave.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:45 comment added Erik A @intentionallyleftblank Jean-Luc Picard was deleted by animuson ♦, presumably in response to a rude/abusive flag.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:29 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier @Stijn That's what "assume good faith" is supposed to mean. Assuming good faith, even and especially when it does not feel like it. Thinking that one's assuming good faith is totally easy when one agrees with content. It's assuming good faith in the face of content we do not agree with, or do not see how could be honest that is the actual lacking behaviour. EG one is not assuming good faith ever, if they do not do so even when they feel content is not honest.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:27 comment added Erik A The main problem is that the icon is vague. If we agree it's a waving hand, that's still very much culturally localized. See Wikipedia: a hand wave in Greece is an insulting gesture... I'd rather see the icon removed altogether. Iconography is hard, especially if you're not using signs or items.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:24 comment added ForceBru @Lundin, this gesture looks like an attempt to prove someone wrong when they accused you of having a weapon ("look, you thought I was gonna kill ya, but I don't even have a weapon"). Or, it can be seen as an "I don't know what to do" gesture. Again, there may be different gestures for one meaning and different meanings for one gesture. Still, a single waving hand (as opposed to two) is more of a greeting. If you start waving both hands furiously, then it's a clear sign you want someone to not do something or go away.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:15 review Close votes
Aug 22, 2018 at 15:12
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:05 comment added Lundin @ForceBru No, the universal meaning for that would be to hold out the hands and arms from your sides.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:03 comment added Eaten by a Grue The amount of hate being directed at my "round of applause" theory is a bit weird. I really didn't mean anything bad by it. The little pixels on either side of the hand look like movement to me. A round of applause was my first thought and seems reasonable.
Aug 22, 2018 at 14:01 comment added ForceBru @Lundin, or is the universal meaning "I don't have a weapon in my hand"? There may be multiple meanings, to my mind, but a clearly waving hand is more friendly than hostile.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:57 comment added Lundin The universal meanings of an open palm held out facing another person are: "Stop", "Stay back", "I've had enough". I interpret it as a warning to stay away from posts written by beginners. Since new users are more likely to write crap questions and post homework dumps.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:57 history edited Eaten by a Grue CC BY-SA 4.0
added 369 characters in body
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:57 comment added ForceBru I think it's pretty clear that this represents the new user waving at people who see their post, so that it's clear to these people that the OP is friendly, but (as it seems to me) a little bit awkward, asking other people to be nice to them.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:56 answer added user247702 timeline score: 13
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:56 comment added user247702 @user202729 I have a hard time taking this question serious with the "A round of applause to encourage newcomers" line in it, looks like mocking to me. Anyway, since OP says they did not mean it that way, I'll try answering the question.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:49 comment added user202729 @Stijn The answers just happen to be like that. Not the question.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:46 comment added Lundin Duplicate at meta SE.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:41 answer added user6892953 timeline score: 31
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:32 comment added Eaten by a Grue Yes I am willing to edit the question. But there is no snark. Please stop accusing me of that.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:31 comment added Eaten by a Grue @YvetteColomb - Maybe I'm an odd-ball but honestly, the round of applause was my first thought when I saw it. I thought it might be trying to encourage the new poster with some positive re-enforcement. I don't see why that's bad. Thank you for responding and despite the fact that you answered my call for criticism, I don't want to edit that part out because it reflects what I really thought and would feel a bit weird to remove it.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:23 comment added Jesse Honestly though, is it that hard to tell? I'm not a professional icon designer or something but it feels obvious that it is, in fact, a waving hand. Maybe that's just me though..
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:22 comment added user3956566 @billynoah if it's a genuine question, that's fine. Take out the "A round of applause to encourage newcomers?". We all know it's not that. A sensible discussion about it is welcome here. I don't want it derailed into a nonsense thread (as the top voted answer is heading). It should be discussed so we can actually answer it.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:19 comment added Eaten by a Grue Real wow moment here. This was a genuine and sincere question. Part of my job involves icon design and I saw the new icon for the first time last night and was scratching my head wondering what the image was meant to convey. Can either of the close-voters please make a suggestion for how I can edit my question?
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:13 history reopened Christian Rau
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Aug 22, 2018 at 13:12 comment added user3956566 @FélixGagnon-Grenier I have no issue with people not wanting it or liking it. But we've been through this upheaval of complaints since the welcoming blog. Instead of lamenting can we offer up something to the SE heads that can be actionable? It's getting old.
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:09 comment added Félix Adriyel Gagnon-Grenier While I somewhat agree with your point, the new user indicator having never been discussed, as far as I was aware, before being forced on the site, along with the not so subtle implication that new users should be treated with favoritism, makes for very good motivation to be snarky...
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:04 history edited Christian Rau
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Aug 22, 2018 at 12:58 comment added user3956566 Snipes and attacks at the site's new policies really doesn't help to solve any issues. If questioner, answerers and commenters have something constructive to to add to actually help define or solve perceived problems, by all means do so, without the layers of sarcasm and mockery that doesn't help and just reeks of "wow the site sucks"
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:56 history closed user247702
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Aug 22, 2018 at 12:51 comment added High Performance Mark Not waving, but drowning.
Aug 22, 2018 at 12:45 review Close votes
Aug 22, 2018 at 13:02
Aug 22, 2018 at 10:25 history edited Rakete1111
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Aug 22, 2018 at 6:59 answer added KarelG timeline score: 101
Aug 22, 2018 at 3:52 comment added Davy M It's a threatening hand, reaching out of the screen to grab you and drag you down to the depths of /dev/null from which it originated.
Aug 22, 2018 at 3:47 comment added Pang <svg aria-hidden="true" class="svg-icon iconWave"iconWave
Aug 22, 2018 at 3:41 history asked Eaten by a Grue CC BY-SA 4.0