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Feb 21, 2023 at 17:41 comment added TylerH @Michael FWIW you can always find some like-minded individuals and propose a new site on Area 51 for professional programmers only. Given how SO staff has said that Stack Overflow is exceptional in that it doesn't get to determine its own fate like every other SE site does, a separate site may be the best bet.
Feb 21, 2023 at 17:39 comment added TylerH @IanKemp SO became popular because of its stringent format (community moderated, accepted answer is controlled by the asker only, up/down votes, comments are for clarification and not 'thank you' or '+1', etc.), not the quality or "depth" of its questions. There are countless (often now-deleted) examples of questions from 2008 and 2009 that serve as reminders of the low quality of questions asked back in those days. Oh, and it helped quite a bit that the two founders were rather famous programmer advocates who already had followings to import into the environment, so to speak, at launch.
Dec 5, 2021 at 18:19 comment added Rounin @Michael - My take is that SO doesn't seek to be a professional space oriented around programmers but strives to be a public space oriented around programming.
Jul 27, 2018 at 17:07 comment added user3458 @AndrewGrothe Moreover, there really is no college course that will teach what exactly is a meaning of "variable" in Java vs. how it's different from the meaning of "variable" in C++. There may be a course during which the student needs to have this epiphany, but it's never explicitly explained. In fact, the relationship is opposite.The people who grasp technology end up studying it in college, not the people who study in college end up grasping the technology.And until you've got that basic grasp of what is e.g. pointer,reference,variable,array-there is very little that SO can do for you.
Jul 27, 2018 at 17:05 comment added user3458 @AndrewGrothe as a man who learned in my 25 years at work more than in my 5 years in college, I resent your question. This is a false dichotomy in its purest form. Yes, we ask for certain level of background knowledge in the technology the question is posted about. No, we do not require that the knowledge comes from college.
Jul 26, 2018 at 9:23 comment added Ian Kemp @ouflak Sadly the staff of Stack Exchange have been tasked with making money from the site, which is orthogonal to keeping it high quality. The people like me who care about quality have a problem with that, and we're fighting against it because it's the right thing to do, not necessarily because we believe we'll win.
Jul 26, 2018 at 9:22 comment added Michael "be nice" is good. being unfriendly doesn't help, because the noobs have no better place to come to, no matter how unfriendly, racist, sexist and whatever we may be. if we are unfriendly to noobs it will not make them disappear anyways. It's like free beer: people take it, no matter how unfriendly you are. @ouflak: you seem to miss the point that there are plenty of online communities which have failed exactly because they were not elitist enough. SO somehow solved this problem, at least partially.
Jul 26, 2018 at 9:16 comment added ouflak @IanKemp, then tell the staff at StackExchange to stop posting all of the strawmen 'welcome' topics and 'be-nice' topics and trying to update their Code of Conduct. There isn't a problem here and these postings are just distractions. Since the site is only meant for seasoned programmers who ask clear concise questions, we should be chasing off anybody who doesn't make the cut. That way the site will grow, prosper, and be very profitable.
Jul 26, 2018 at 9:04 comment added Michael @IanKemp: exactly. I had become tired of arguing. Furthermore, this kind of "elitist" attitude is exactly how offline communities work by default. Universities are not overrun by people who failed at high school. When I meet former co-workers, they don't bring noob programmers to the meeting who repeatedly ask questions about NullPointerExceptions. - An online community on the other hand is non-elitist by default. And letting everyone in is much easier than doing some kind of filtering. Most online communities are non-elitist. Still noobs prefer stack overflow over quora.
Jul 26, 2018 at 8:40 comment added Ian Kemp @ouflak It is exactly that "elitist" attitude that led to SO becoming popular, so yeah... good luck with your strawman.
Jul 25, 2018 at 7:23 comment added ouflak If this kind of elitest attitude takes over SO, this site will die quickly. And any site that is actually like what you describe would be very lucky to survive very long. There are so many examples of this on the internet, it's absurd.
Jul 23, 2018 at 20:38 comment added Peter Mortensen If you want to keep the noobs out, what kind of barriers would you like to have in place? E.g., initial tests involving complex Perl one-liners with regular expressions?
Jul 23, 2018 at 20:32 history edited Peter Mortensen CC BY-SA 4.0
Active reading. [<http://stackoverflow.com/legal/trademark-guidance> (the last section)].
Jul 23, 2018 at 19:52 comment added jrh Personally I'm alright with attempting to answer non-professional level questions, but I respect that you aren't and I hope that you can find the site you're looking for (if this doesn't end up being it). I sympathize because SO hasn't exactly been consistent about what it really wanted to make here and the friction and waste that causes is... unfortunate.
Jul 23, 2018 at 19:35 comment added Doug Dawson I appreciate that analogy, but there are medical institutions and government agencies that concern themselves with licensing doctors. Are you thinking of a SO-like site that has an entrance exam? Accreditation validation? A site like that would likely require a subscription. That would certainly keep the user count low!
Jul 23, 2018 at 19:09 comment added Michael @AndrewGrothe: no. I said I would appreciate a site for professional programmers. do you know that there are forums for medical doctors? these forums would be totally useless if everyone were allowed and you got 10000 questions about migraine every day. do you think it is harsh that these forums exclude non-MDs like us?
Jul 23, 2018 at 19:01 comment added Andrew Grothe So folks who have never been to college and are trying to better themselves by learning how to program are not allowed here? Harsh. (the efforts around making sure new users learn how to ask good questions are the right direction IMHO)
Jul 23, 2018 at 16:48 comment added Chad A professional programmer can still be brand new to a particular language, and ask questions for that language that sound pretty "noob".
Jul 23, 2018 at 14:14 comment added usr I (140k rep) have essentially stopped answering because there are no answerable C# questions anymore. Many questions are possible but frustrating to answer. Too many noobs is a good point. They don't cooperate in being helped.
Jul 23, 2018 at 13:40 comment added Braiam I would be happy if they at least were hobbyist, where they at least have a real drive to read manuals, read answers and read their code.
Jul 22, 2018 at 12:40 comment added Michael @Max: but practically speaking, the "second approximation" is easier to test anyways
Jul 22, 2018 at 12:30 comment added Michael @Max: I like to use "duck typing" here. if it looks, acts and talks like a professional programmer, it is a professional programmer ;) . One could argue that this is a superficial way of looking at things, but I think it is reasonable to see it this way. But I agree with your point: there are definitively excellent coders who didn't work professionally yet. and there are definitively professional coders who don't know how to program. including the first group but excluding the second group would be a good second approximation. (the first approx. was "only allow professional coders")
Jul 22, 2018 at 5:43 comment added Max I will note that "makes money" and "not a noob" are distinct -- though your point is understood
Jul 21, 2018 at 23:13 comment added John Hascall Well, when you are asking a question it shows you what it things are similar questions already in SO. So maybe it could just google your title and put that result up there too?
Jul 21, 2018 at 18:08 comment added Michael @rmunn: i think this question is very interesting. The title is "Meaning of \ in Haskell identifier", and it has been marked as a duplicate of "Getting started with Haskell". We should close more questions this way ;) Can we have foreach programmingLanguage a "Getting started with $programmingLanguage" question? ;)
Jul 21, 2018 at 17:07 comment added rmunn @Michael - The proportion of good questions seems to be heavily weighted towards certain tags. For example, I spend my SO time almost exclusively on the f# tag right now, where there are rather few questions (1-2 per day) but 75-80% of them are good, answerable questions. On the php or javascript tags, OTOH... it seems like 2% of the questions are good.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:30 comment added user202729 I'm not sure about that. If you're saying that "there is no answerable question", that will probably not change if the unanswerable questions are cleared. If you're saying that "the answerable ones are hidden under the unanswerable mess", then... ... yes it's a problem, and the solution is to close/delete the questions faster.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:30 comment added Michael if just 60% of the questions are bad, I wouldn't care much. But if 99,99% of the questions are bad, that's another story.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:28 comment added Michael @user202729: What do you mean by "there are no way to know if a question is "unanswerable" without looking at them" - that's obvious. Do you think I decided that a question is unanswerable, just by looking at it's question ID??
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:27 comment added Michael @user202729: i could. the problem is.. I would like to answer questions. I cannot answer questions because there are almost no good, answerable questions. And this is frustrating, so I leave.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:26 comment added user202729 Plus, there are no way to know if a question is "unanswerable" without looking at them.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:25 comment added user202729 But... just close those questions. Done.
Jul 21, 2018 at 15:04 history answered Michael CC BY-SA 4.0