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May 7, 2018 at 9:12 comment added PM 2Ring I don't know R, or Stata files. If it's a file format that R experts are likely to be familiar with, then a sample of the file is unnecessary. If it's not a well-known format, a few relevant lines of the file (if it's line-structured), or a few lines of a hex dump (if it's a binary format), could be a very helpful component of the MCVE.
May 6, 2018 at 17:58 comment added Makoto @feelingunwelcome: Again, can you demonstrate that an expert in R would not be able to at least understand this scenario without an MCVE? I genuinely don't disagree with using them, I just don't think that in this case, we need to be preaching it as much as we do. MCVE is not a cure-all for questions or problem solving. We shouldn't be treating it like it is.
May 6, 2018 at 17:55 comment added user177800 probably 90% of the time, if you force someone to think critically about what they are doing enough to create an MCVE, they will solve their problem themselves in the process. Suggesting they use a step-debugger in the process moves the possible success rate very close to 100% in most cases. Just because there is even a 10% edge cases that might not be able to MCVE'd does not mean it still should not be the first requirement. It just means they need to put work in to explain it in even more detail to make it answerable.
May 6, 2018 at 5:43 comment added Makoto Looks like you hit the nail right on the head @BoltClock.
May 6, 2018 at 4:13 comment added BoltClock Mod I sympathize with the fact that most askers are unreliable narrators and simply fail to present their problem exactly as it is from the get-go, either through a bad description, providing a code snippet that ends up failing to illustrate the problem, or even circumstances out of their control. Ask for an MCVE then. Otherwise, if the problem is presented clearly, with code that illustrates the problem to a reasonable degree, I'd trust an expert to be able to answer that question effectively (or tell if the information presented is insufficient to do so).
May 6, 2018 at 4:05 comment added BoltClock Mod There is nothing confusing about Makoto's answer. The MCVE close reason is being applied - nay, misapplied - dogmatically, on questions where an MCVE isn't even absolutely essential to getting them answered. Makoto isn't taking issue with the fact that not all questions are answerable or on-topic. They're taking issue with the fact that a perfectly answerable and reasonably scoped question becomes not just because you don't see a block of code you can copy and paste wholesale into your IDE.
May 5, 2018 at 17:47 comment added Makoto @NathanTuggy: Yep. And there a more subtle point to be had here. Instead of focusing on the actual question the OP wants to write, they're preoccupied with formulating the ideal MCVE. Good questions beget good examples where necessary. If we've got OPs too focused on an MCVE, we've permanently harmed their predisposition on asking questions here.
May 5, 2018 at 17:41 comment added Nathan Tuggy @Makoto: Sure, but your phrasing was (and is) quite confusingly over-broad. I'd agree that in this case a traditional MCVE is probably unhelpful. But as stated, it sounds like you're objecting to all cases in which lack of MCVE is the only problem we have with a question and therefore it is closed. But you aren't; you're objecting to cases in which MCVEs aren't relevant.
May 5, 2018 at 16:40 history edited Makoto CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2018 at 16:28 comment added Makoto @FelixPalmen: Did you misinterpret my answer as a complete dismissal of MCVE? I'm actually quite a vocal supporter of its intended spirit; show us what you've done and where you're stuck. This is simply put, one case in which drumming up dummy data is not useful to demonstrate anything. I'd also doubt the expertise of anyone versed in R that can't solve this problem without first having the OP's 30GB data set to operate on.
May 5, 2018 at 16:26 comment added Makoto @NathanTuggy: You misunderstand my point. Do you mean to tell me that an expert in R cannot answer a question about breaking up a substantially large data set and have it read piecewise into their application without having a sufficiently large data set for them to demonstrate on? It's this narrow thinking of why MCVE is needed on everything which is causing this very real friction.
May 5, 2018 at 10:54 comment added Nathan Tuggy "It fosters a scenario in which the problem you wish to solve becomes unaskable because you cannot fulfill our criteria." I mean… yeah. That's kind of exactly what a close reason is for. That same sentence can be dropped in to describe the fallout of library recommendations, of "write-the-whole-program-for-me-broad" questions, and so on and so forth. The fact that we have criteria that make some questions unaskable on this site is absolutely status-bydesign.
May 5, 2018 at 10:24 comment added Kaiido @Stargateur that doesn't conflict with my point: an mcve's main goal is that OP takes the first steps in debugging, so that volunteers don't have to dig in there. If the input is the broken part, then enough "no-repro" comments will probably lead to the typo I'm sorry made you lost tons of time.
May 5, 2018 at 10:19 comment added Stargateur @Kaiido In fact no, mcve clearly include an exemple of input and output if this is needed to be "complete". We can't believe OP that the input is "ok". I have already see tons of questions where the problem was in the input.
May 5, 2018 at 9:50 comment added Kaiido IMM the main goal of a so called MCVE is that OP takes the firsts steps into the debugging process: clears out everything that is not needed from the issue. If the problem needs a 3TB file in order to be reproduceable, then stating it is enough, of course there is no need to add said file, as long as OP is sure that the provided code is an MCVE: if I pass such file to the script, then I get the same output.
May 5, 2018 at 9:44 comment added user2371524 @TaW yes, because it never was meant as such. MCVE is required by site rules only for questions asking why some code doesn't work as expected. (which is according to my experience the vast majority of on-topic questions here ... but sure there are on-topic questions about different things)
May 5, 2018 at 9:41 comment added TaW Nobody has a problem with the concept. But is must not be considered a dogma. Often a verbal descrition will do. Often an image. So, would you aggree if the first sentende were stated as This is why I have a personal problem with MCVE as a dogma. ?
May 5, 2018 at 9:33 comment added user2371524 My DV for this: "This is why I have a personal problem with MCVE." Although I pretty much agree with the rest of your answer, I strongly disagree with this initial sentence. Some edge cases like discussed here don't invalidate the whole concept and usefulness of MCVEs in the common case (or, if you think so, you'd have to explain why, IMHO)
May 5, 2018 at 4:43 history edited Makoto CC BY-SA 4.0
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May 5, 2018 at 2:45 history answered Makoto CC BY-SA 4.0