Timeline for On the false dichotomy between quality and kindness
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
17 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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May 21, 2018 at 16:02 | comment | added | EJoshuaS - Stand with Ukraine | As others have indicated, downvotes are not a punishment, just a reflection of the fact that the community believes that the content isn't worth reading. We downvote content, not users. The fact that you lose rep for downvotes is mostly an incentive to improve the question (or, even better, to formulate the question well from the outset). | |
May 21, 2018 at 13:30 | comment | added | Ben | Finding duplicates is not incentivised. There is no rep for that so nobody does it. Answering duplicate question is incentivised - you still get rep no matter how many duplicates there are - just look at the SQL tag. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252756/… | |
May 1, 2018 at 9:33 | comment | added | Gimby | @shogged no harm done, downvote removed. Still can't upvote it though, downvotes are not a punishment. People still punish themselves, the goal is to make it easier for us to help people to stop doing that. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 14:03 | comment | added | Raedwald | You are confusing "bad post" with "duplicate". They are different: a post can be good and a duplicate, or bad and not a duplicate. Some duplicates are worth having, which is why duplicates are not deleted. Some duplicates are not worth having, which is why they are downvoted. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 13:35 | comment | added | Nicol Bolas | @shogged: Bad duplicate posts exist too. You're effectively saying that we shouldn't be able to downvote a bad post. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 13:29 | history | edited | shogged | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Apr 30, 2018 at 13:29 | comment | added | shogged | @Gimby apologies, in my culture "noobs" is not derogatory, it's actually considered a friendly or jovial term. I will edit the question. For my own future reference, what is your culture that finds this word offensive? | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 13:26 | comment | added | Gimby | I kind of feel sad when an answer aimed at offering a potential way to diminish perceived unkindness then completely destroys itself by using a derogatory term such as "noobs". This is not a gaming environment where it is pretty much expected behavior that people treat you like garbage because they've wasted more hours (or money) on something than you and thus think they are above you. Call someone or even a group of people "noobs" and it is very much unfriendly. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:47 | comment | added | Patrice | @shogged closing isn't immediate though. if I cast 1 vote and I'm in a tag that isn't very active, how do I signal to users rapidly "this isn't up to our standards"? I wait the potential day(s) it may take to close the question, and in the meantime all users seeing this don't get any hint? I don't see this as any better, tbh. I can downvote and help the user. Nothing stops from doing both. But I still think downvote has its place there | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:45 | comment | added | shogged | @Patrice isn't closing enough of a hint that there is a problem with the question? If not, perhaps the big "this question has been answered here" banner might offer them some hints. Imagine if in a video game level 1 mercilessly perma-deathed your character for a common noob mistake while making little effort to teach you how to overcome this deficiency. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:38 | comment | added | Patrice | @jpp sure. But according to this answer, me downvoting that hypothetical question is a problem. And this is my issue with the whole thing. A lot of users will never see moderation as anything else than hostile. While I am 100% for a softer tone and a nicer approach, there is a cutoff point where we sacrifice too much for a group of users that just don't want any moderation... That's my worry: that going down this road we'll lose what makes stack stack... For a grumpy group of very vocal users | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:29 | comment | added | jpp | @Patrice, That's fine, it's exactly what I might have done too. But I know many people that would rather just close as "no mcve" - which has zero chance of directly helping OP. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:28 | comment | added | Patrice | @jpp ideally in such a situation, I would dupe-close, so the OP has an answer. I would also explain to the user our quality standards so they know better in the future. But if a question has both these issues at once, I would likely downvote as well | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 12:01 | comment | added | jpp | @Patrice, If you have a choice of VTC due to not showing code, or VTC as duplicate (many questions fail due to both), which do you choose [especially, as you suggest, dups which are trivial to find]? This answer is badly phrased, but it raises the question of what you do given the choice. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 11:03 | comment | added | Cerbrus | Closing a question and downvoting it aren't mutually exclusive. Dupe questions can still be downvoted. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 10:54 | comment | added | Patrice | What about the new users who are offended by dupe-closing then? And how do we indicate that the duplicate is poorly researched? The whole concept of Stack is that good content will bubble up based on votes. I don't automatically downvote dupe questions. But if it's a dupe I can literally google the title of... then yeah, it's poorly researched. I can surely explain it to the user, but in my mind a downvote on the post (not the user, the post) is still warranted. | |
Apr 30, 2018 at 10:50 | history | answered | shogged | CC BY-SA 3.0 |