Timeline for Retiring New Navigation (beta) in preparation for Navigation 3.0
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
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Jul 25 at 16:07 | history | reopened |
cottontail Elikill58 Robert Longson bfontaine Billal Begueradj |
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Jul 24 at 12:48 | history | closed |
Jonathan Leffler il_raffa Dominique Wai Ha Lee pigrammer |
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Feb 16, 2018 at 0:43 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @poke: If you look at what New Nav did, it was mostly arraigning existing features so that they are easier to find and use. There are only a few features that don't have workarounds. So the redesign is not really about looks at all. Having made the difficult decision to remove New Nav in the first place, it doesn't make sense to double our work by building a temporary replacement. | |
Feb 15, 2018 at 23:16 | comment | added | poke | Why is the release of the new Q/A nav, and its functionalities, actually even tied to a(nother) redesign of the site navigation? We’re mostly asking about the features here, not the looks, so why can’t we get a temporary design but with the features already implemented? Why is this tied that much to the Channels progress? – Also, looking at the mocks in that blog post, I’m really not looking forward to that. I wonder what percentage of users will actually be involved with Channels that justifies such a heavy change for all users. | |
Feb 15, 2018 at 21:12 | comment | added | TylerH | @JonEricson Thanks, I missed that blog post. | |
Feb 15, 2018 at 21:06 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @TylerH: Well, you can see where we are headed by reading between the lines of this post. I expect there to be another post in a week or two. Actual rollout is going to be a while so we can get in some testing with users. (Also, the design is not settled yet.) | |
Feb 15, 2018 at 21:04 | comment | added | TylerH | @JonEricson Now that it's been over 2 months since you turned off the feature, do you have an ETA on Nav 3 rolling out? Or an ETA on an announcement keeping us apprised of the state of things? | |
Jan 5, 2018 at 22:41 | comment | added | Travis J | I am really missing my "voted this week" tab. Is it possible to get an update on the progress or plans on Nav 3.0? | |
Dec 26, 2017 at 21:44 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @ThomasG: I'm sorry this regression was so disruptive for you. Looking at the statistics, it's clear we need to bring saved search functionality back and implement it for everyone. (This has always been the plan, but there's stronger evidence than ever that we need to make it a priority.) | |
Dec 24, 2017 at 11:14 | comment | added | Thomas G | I commented this on Dec 5th to complain about the missing custom tabs. 3 weeks later I can conclude that, while I visited SO on a daily basis like I do it for 2 years, I have not answered any single question because the questions presented to me are irrelevant, and it is UNBEARABLY time-consuming to find the right contain for your skills. And my main skill is SQL so it shouldn't be hard to find it. All comments here are complaints saying the same thing so I really don't understand what you are waiting for to recognize your failure, end this regression and revert back our custom tabs. SHAME! | |
Dec 20, 2017 at 16:25 | comment | added | hek2mgl | I see. Thanks for your response. | |
Dec 20, 2017 at 16:04 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @hek2mgl: We did see that many of our top contributors used the feature. Unfortunately, in order to improve the feature for everyone (which we are now doing behind the scenes) we needed to turn the (long-running) beta feature off. Tabs are the wrong navigation metaphor for saved searches, but we plan to bring them back since the evidence suggests it helps people find questions to answer. I wish it were possible to keep all three versions active, but it wasn't possible. Better to make this change now so we can get something better sooner. | |
Dec 20, 2017 at 15:59 | history | edited | Jon EricsonStaff |
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Dec 20, 2017 at 9:19 | comment | added | hek2mgl | Wouldn't it make much more sense for a community driven website to ask the community of contributors before removing a feature? Your analysis lacks to check how many of those people who contributed most to the site were using this navigation. | |
Dec 19, 2017 at 12:26 | comment | added | Suragch | Is this post still featured on purpose? It seems like it has been up for a long time. | |
Dec 19, 2017 at 1:34 | answer | added | user4639281 | timeline score: 8 | |
Dec 14, 2017 at 20:09 | comment | added | Mike Cluck | @JonEricson Not to be rude but if New Nav was blocking progress then your developers need to learn how to utilize branching better. | |
Dec 13, 2017 at 19:46 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @TylerH: I share your frustration, but this change was made at the request of the developers working on the next generation of navigation. Indeed, they started testing changes on Channels hosted on production almost immediately after the setting was disabled. We're dogfooding the changes now. (It's still rough, but I think we're on the right track.) I just have to trust that New Nav was blocking progress since I'm not intimately familiar with the code. | |
Dec 13, 2017 at 17:57 | comment | added | TylerH | @JonEricson I just don't buy that you needed to devote any of your limited resources to the 'new-nav branch' when you can just freeze dev on it and focus only on the version you want to replace them both with. In pragmatic business environments you always should opt for a short-term 'working' solution while you fine-tune the end-goal elegant one because users need something in the short term even if it's only partially finished. What you've done here is the opposite. OK, we have to live with that, but you shouldn't use that argument to support the decision, because it doesn't hold water IMHO. | |
Dec 12, 2017 at 7:59 | comment | added | Mateen Ulhaq | Personally, I didn't even realize there was a change since I've added a couple dozen languages to my ignore list. | |
Dec 12, 2017 at 2:57 | answer | added | HostileFork says dont trust SE | timeline score: -7 | |
Dec 11, 2017 at 17:48 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @AndyHolmes: It's likely you can recreate the tab with a bookmark to an advanced search. I know that's not as convenient, but it might tide you over until the next generation of navigation. | |
Dec 11, 2017 at 17:46 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @rici: We happen to think tools to find and track questions you are interested in are very important. We've got very limited resources at the moment so we can't support two branches. But we are using the feedback to plan our next iteration. The good news is that we'll be making it the default rather than hiding the feature behind a profile setting. | |
Dec 11, 2017 at 15:09 | comment | added | Andy Holmes | Custom tabs were awesome, I bet loads of us used it in order to save ourselves time to find already filtered questions. I used to click my Laravel tab about 50 times a day to see if I could help anyone, was the greatest addition for me in a long time. Gutted it's gone | |
Dec 11, 2017 at 6:29 | comment | added | rici | "For those of you who rely on saved tabs to find questions, it must be frustrating that we are taking them away even temporarily. " Yes, it is. A week later and I'm still grumpy about it.To make it worse, it happened the same day I updated Firefox and thereby lost my tab manager, thanks to the Mozilla team also thinking that a feature used by "only some power" users doesn't matter. | |
Dec 8, 2017 at 17:14 | history | edited | Jon EricsonStaff | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Add a link to my summary.
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Dec 8, 2017 at 4:09 | comment | added | Stephen Rauch Mod | The lack of saved tabs just sux. | |
Dec 7, 2017 at 16:07 | comment | added | Mike Cluck | So why didn't you just leave the new nav under a beta flag, maybe add something stating it may have bugs and won't be updated, then just development Nav 3.0 internally? It seems like a major regression for power users with no real gain for anyone. I understand not wanting to support two different code paths so why not just leave it locked behind a flag that basically says "it might be broken, we're not going to fix it, we have something better in the works"? | |
Dec 7, 2017 at 12:59 | comment | added | EpicKip | Thanks for killing the new nav, takes me way longer to find anything and it looks ugly again.... | |
Dec 6, 2017 at 19:11 | answer | added | Jon EricsonStaff | timeline score: 28 | |
Dec 6, 2017 at 8:15 | answer | added | Suma | timeline score: 6 | |
Dec 6, 2017 at 0:34 | comment | added | Jacob G. | I'm just happy that Java is still #2 | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 21:37 | comment | added | Funk Forty Niner | Guess we'll just have to wait and see then hehe, thanks @AndrasDeak | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 21:35 | comment | added | Andras Deak -- Слава Україні | @Fred-ii- that assumes that there's an actual New New Nav that is coming. Something tells me that if it was around the corner they wouldn't have forced us to do two UX changes. So...we'll find out in 6-8 generic time units. | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 17:52 | comment | added | Funk Forty Niner | Will we the people who have used that functionalty have to opt-in again later or make any changes in our settings when it does come back? Or will they be restored? | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 16:11 | comment | added | Steve | It will be interesting to know if this switch has impacted in some way the total number of answers and the ratio between answers and accepted answers. | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 16:07 | comment | added | user692942 | Complete regression for no good reason, this has made using Stack Overflow a chore! | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 15:54 | comment | added | Sebastian Simon |
I had a couple of tabs with the daily hot questions of some technologies I’m interested to learn, but my main tab just contained the newest questions with my favorite tags (which couldn’t be easily done automatically, for some reason, you had to go to …/need-answers?show=all&sort=newest&tagFilter=favorite ). Right now I have to search intags:mine is:q and update manually…
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Dec 5, 2017 at 15:54 | answer | added | Mike Cluck | timeline score: 15 | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 15:28 | comment | added | Floern | Any reason the new nav is still active here on meta? | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 10:09 | answer | added | Loïc MICHEL | timeline score: 1 | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 8:09 | comment | added | Thomas G | I miss my custom tab!!! I had a custom tab showing only questions in my tags with no accepted answers and it was just perfect, showing me fast what to answer exactly. Now I am completely lost like a newbie on the site, as in the list of questions presented to me, >95% of them is absolutely irrelevant. This is a real downgrade for me so I downvoted this | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 7:46 | comment | added | poke | Now that the old nav is back, I have to say that my fears have been confirmed: This really is a disruptive change. I was aware that the old nav would be very basic, but I didn’t realize before that the nav changes affected so many other things other than that simple nav tab strip. This will be difficult times for me and others while we wait for the new navigation.. So please, hurry up and get something out there fast. | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 5:00 | comment | added | Stephen Rauch Mod | Will you send us an inbox message when it is time for us to return to browsing for questions to answer? In the mean time, cheers. | |
Dec 5, 2017 at 1:43 | comment | added | sorifiend | Oh boy, without the "new" nav bar and my custom tabs I've almost forgotten how to navigate SO. The new NAV system cannot come fast enough. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 23:41 | comment | added | sco1 |
Thanks @JonEricson, this will work. Is there a way to make it more overt that the new search is now defaulting to and ? I'm assuming I'm not going to be the only confused person now that the UI has been shut off.
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Dec 4, 2017 at 23:36 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff |
@excaza: You can do that with search's or term. It's not (yet) part of the UI, but you can still find those questions if you bookmark that.
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Dec 4, 2017 at 23:25 | comment | added | sco1 | Please bring back the tag clouds. Multi-tag searches (like my MATLAB one) are my primary interaction with the site. They're now completely broken. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 22:27 | comment | added | Hristo Iliev | Saved tabs were very useful to group tags into easy to access macro categories. What is the alternative? Bookmarking search URLs? | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 20:26 | comment | added | Tim Lewis | I already miss my custom tabs; with a single click I could jump to the ones I use frequently and see new/updated questions at a glance... Seems a lot harder to accomplish the same thing now. Also, the page title has changed, and for some reason that is tripping me out... Side effect of having the same tab open in the same spot for the last few years I guess. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 20:23 | comment | added | cteski | I'm kind of okay with going back to the old nav, but I did like that more compacted, collapsed option of viewing the question list. Is this not available with ye olde nav? Forgive me if I'm missing an option but I'm not seeing it in my settings and preferences. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 19:29 | comment | added | juergen d | Finally we get back the "week" and "month" tabs. Awesome! | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 19:18 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @samayo: "Demands" is probably not the word you are looking for. But we are listening to user feedback and will be using it to design the replacement navigation system. If there's a specific use case that hasn't been included in an answer below, I recommend getting your input in there. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 19:13 | comment | added | samayo | Do the people that make this erratic changes actually listen to the users' demands? I don't think so. Everytime they change something 1) it was unnecessary 2) it is a regression. Now just remove the ability to ask/answer questions. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 19:01 | comment | added | revo | I can't stand this ancient nav. HELP!! HELP! | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:53 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @YowE3K: Yes it should. I thought it did work that way, but it seems not all modes are supported perfectly. That said, we'll eventually remove those routes, so folks should probably update their bookmarks anyway. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:50 | comment | added | YowE3K | @JonEricson Wouldn't it have made more sense if the redirect went to the equivalent page? P.S. Thanks for the link, I will update that bookmark (and my other bookmarks) to use that syntax. | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:49 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @YowE3K: It does redirect, but not to the same search. :-( Try: stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/access+or+word | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:45 | comment | added | YowE3K | I thought that bookmarking the pages (e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/access%20word?mode=any) would allow me to get to them when the new nav disappeared, but sadly it didn't work :( :( | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:45 | comment | added | Matthew Schuchard | Seems like everyone who used the new nav is frustrated that SO is now going to once again be significantly more laborious to navigate to answer questions. Now that I am going back and trying out the old nav, I realize I completely forgot how awful it was compared to the awesome new nav beta. Maybe time to stop using SO altogether? | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:43 | comment | added | RiggsFolly | Ouch! Its gone and I am now lost, I got so used to it just being there. How long do we have to wait for V3? | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:41 | comment | added | DavidG | @iBug It's gone! But now I can't remember how to find good questions any more, ugh! | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 18:28 | history | edited | Jon EricsonStaff | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
New Nav has been turned off.
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Dec 4, 2017 at 17:18 | answer | added | Olivier Jacot-Descombes | timeline score: 1 | |
Dec 4, 2017 at 11:15 | answer | added | Ian | timeline score: -10 | |
Dec 3, 2017 at 23:27 | comment | added | user5306470 | Oh, we have had a navigation bar? | |
Dec 2, 2017 at 1:25 | comment | added | user6655984 |
@Chloe With my userscript this can be done by searching for is:100 answers:0 .
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Dec 1, 2017 at 19:36 | answer | added | user3458 | timeline score: 6 | |
Dec 1, 2017 at 2:57 | comment | added | Chloe | I would like to vote for a list of questions asked by people with >= 100 reputation and no answers. This filters out the time-wasters. | |
Nov 28, 2017 at 13:22 | answer | added | davidkonrad | timeline score: 10 | |
Nov 25, 2017 at 15:28 | answer | added | makerofthings7 | timeline score: -20 | |
Nov 25, 2017 at 11:30 | comment | added | Sklivvz | @JonEricson "Sklivvz took the project entirely on his own" is entirely incorrect. New nav was built by Kurtis Beavers and I - I did the research, Kurtis did the UI/UX. Design was by Kurtis, frontend code by me and m0sa, backend by me, m0sa and marcgravell. I led the project under many respects, but it was certainly a team effort. Also, Jaydles and dfullerton had a very heavy hand in deciding the direction of the project. | |
Nov 24, 2017 at 18:25 | answer | added | Martijn PietersMod | timeline score: 62 | |
Nov 24, 2017 at 17:49 | answer | added | Lucas Trzesniewski | timeline score: 29 | |
Nov 23, 2017 at 3:03 | comment | added | user4639281 | I understand the unwillingness to support three versions of the same product, but couldn't you just remove the opt-in box (leaving an opt-out button for those who have it enabled), and slap a big old "We are no longer offering support for 2.0. We're working on rolling out 3.0. ETA: 6-8 weeks" on any new meta questions about 2.0, then just auto migrate 2.0 users to 3.0 when it is released? This would stop new user entry, those who opt out would not be able to opt back in, prevent overhead of maintaining 2.0, and gracefully disable 2.0 when necessary. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 21:25 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @Cerbrus: At one time or another, we had 19,769 opt-in events and 2,131 opt-out events for the feature. But people were free to opt in or out as they liked, so some of those represent one person toggling the feature several times. It's also possible to opt in and never really use the feature. Currently 9,972 have customized their tabs to some degree. This is strong evidence the feature was useful and why we are planning on borrowing heavily from the concepts it introduced. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 19:35 | comment | added | TylerH | I was just wondering earlier today when other sites would be getting the greatly-improved UI 2.0. Now it seems my hopes are dashed. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 19:31 | answer | added | TylerH | timeline score: 14 | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 18:39 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @TinyGiant: I get the mistrust; we've earned it. There are a few differences between 2.0 and the version we are working on now: 1. Sklivvz took new nav on as a project mostly on his own. He had support, but it wasn't where the company was pushing hardest at the time. 2. We've refocused on our core strength (Q&A, not developers per se) and it's a priority to fix navigation now (because of Channels and Enterprise). 3. We are attempting to replicate Sklivvz' development process of iterative rather than incremental change. We learned from 2.0. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 16:40 | comment | added | user4639281 | Well this blows. I really liked the tabs, and well... the whole 2.0 nav. Now you're saying that you're going to be removing the tabs and some other things from the 3.0 nav, and you're going to remove the nav I've come to know and love, leaving me with the rickety old 1.0 nav. All of this, and I don't even have any confidence that you guys are actually going to build 3.0. Hell, you didn't even finish building 2.0 before you just abandoned it. Will 3.0 be abandoned before entering beta this time? Very disappointing decision. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 9:25 | comment | added | Tschallacka | The story of where they were hidden made me think of: “But the plans were on display…” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.” “That’s the display department.” “With a flashlight.” “Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.” “But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.” | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 5:52 | answer | added | Tot Zam | timeline score: 15 | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 4:24 | comment | added | Nisarg Shah | @JonEricson I rely on new-nav's ability to group the questions by tags, to find the interesting questions. I had reverted back to old nav for a while, when I was verifying a bug, and it felt like those "rotary dial phones". I fear there might be a dip in percentage of questions answered (or quality) during the time everyone is switched back to the old-nav. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 4:08 | answer | added | Nisarg Shah | timeline score: 74 | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 0:30 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @NH.: This particular feature never made it from Stack Overflow to any of the other sites. It was the plan/hope however. Maybe 3.0 will make it live and get used on all sites, but I can't make any promises. | |
Nov 22, 2017 at 0:20 | comment | added | NH. | Why is this posted here when the feature is posted on Meta.SE? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 22:31 | answer | added | Mad Scientist | timeline score: 22 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 21:38 | comment | added | poke | @JonEricson I’m just afraid that this will cause two UI changes for current beta nav users. Once when they will be reverted back to v1, and then when v3 comes out to test. And we all know, that UI changes are difficult to digest… (also, what Shog mentioned below; if people are used to the v2 capabilities and a v3 isn’t there in time to catch that need, this will just cause more frustration) | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 21:33 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @poke: I'm afraid there will be a gap while we build out the next version. It's not ideal, but we need to end support for the beta (v2) so that the developers are free to make changes without worrying about breaking two separate paths. Hopefully the wait won't be too long and we can give priority to current testers of "new nav" if we do a private beta. But everyone will be on the default (v1) system for a time. Please let us know what your use case is in an answer below so we see about smoothing the transition. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 21:12 | comment | added | Peter Mortensen | Sklivvz has left the building. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 21:10 | comment | added | poke | As a long term “new nav (beta)” user who barely remembers the original nav, will the “new new nav” be there at the same moment when the “new nav (beta)” will be turned off? Or will I get reverted to v1 first, and then I have to wait for v3? If yes, can’t you turn off v2 when you enable the v3 test (and grandfather all v2 test users over to v3)? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 20:49 | comment | added | Cerbrus | Jon, do you have numbers on how many users enabled, then disabled the beta navigation again? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 20:30 | answer | added | Shog9 | timeline score: 155 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:59 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @JonClements: Ooooh! This isn't even looking at traffic. The data is just looking at users who had the setting turned on and visited in the last week (from when the analysis was done). It's just looking at the values in the database that these users set for themselves and no external stuff at all. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:49 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | @Jon I meant in terms of the links showing on the right. Eg stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/android can be accessed by tags but is also linked from forums and Google support for instance. So was wondering if the external traffic from those links is represented in those charts or if it's only internal site navigation. (eg people going there due to navigating on the site as opposed to landing on the site) | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:45 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @JonClements: The "New Nav" urls don't work for people who don't have the setting turned on. (We try to fail gracefully, however. So you might link to a list of bountied questions in a tag and we'll redirect to the tag's featured questions instead.) So I think the answer to your question is that there's no external influence. Does that help? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:39 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | I'll try @Adam. Say we've got /questions/tagged/whatever... I can get there either by clicking on a tag while browsing SO or by looking at an external site which suggests I ask questions on SO (and then provides that tag link). Just wondering if they're differentiated. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:36 | comment | added | Adam Lear StaffMod | @JonClements I don't think I understand what you're asking. Mind rephrasing? Thanks :) | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:23 | answer | added | Travis J | timeline score: 23 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:23 | answer | added | Thomas Owens | timeline score: 12 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:20 | answer | added | Scott Weldon | timeline score: 9 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:17 | comment | added | Don't Panic | I'm not even sure which one I'm using, but +1 for your brilliant prose. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:10 | comment | added | Kevin B | i've apparently been opted in for a while, I never use those tabs. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:04 | answer | added | Floern | timeline score: 118 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 19:02 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @davidism: v2 is going to be removed before we start testing v3. We'd considered preventing people from turning on the preference starting today since it's going to revert to v1 on the 4th. You won't miss out on anything. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:56 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | Out of curiosity though - are those searches with tags actually searches or internal navigation by clicking on tags or are they potentially influenced by external traffic which either sponsors tags or otherwise links to a tag as to where to ask questions about it? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:53 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | I think I only turned it on (and forgot to turn it off) because someone was asking why a link wasn't working here and it turns out it only works if you've got newnav enabled. So just from a point of view of having site links work or not based on a user setting then it going is not a bad thing. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:49 | answer | added | davidism | timeline score: 7 | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:46 | comment | added | Joe Friend StaffMod | @rene Since sliced bread, of course. I think upvotes might be an expression of let's move forward, given the feature was stuck in limbo. We'd love to hear specifics about why/how you used it and what you can't do without. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:36 | comment | added | rene | Well, I'm a long standing user of new-nav, so I expressed my feelings of retiring it with a down vote. I will revisit if Navigation 3.0 is the next best thing. | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:33 | comment | added | Jon Ericson Staff | @rene: I assume people appreciate my brilliant prose. But thanks for bursting my bubble. :-/ | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:31 | comment | added | rene | What do upvotes mean here? Glad it is gone, I didn't use it anyway? | |
Nov 21, 2017 at 18:23 | history | asked | Jon EricsonStaff | CC BY-SA 3.0 |