Timeline for Why was the question about revenge downvote deleted by a moderator?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
42 events
when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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Nov 3, 2017 at 23:19 | comment | added | jpmc26 | Let us continue this discussion in chat. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 22:49 | comment | added | Oleg | @jpmc26 The only thing the former does is antagonize people for yet another reason. This is demonstrable; there was a now deleted comment correctly accusing you of something that did happen(claiming that there is some doubt about what happened is defending him). Your response to me after I responded to Gimby was completely unnecessary, there was no reason for you to get involved and all it did was continue the discussion about this which was pretty much over. Same goes to your edit of the answer, all it did was bring this question to the top of the list. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 22:35 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @Oleg There is a massive difference between 1) telling people to take a problem to the appropriate venue and others to stay out of it, and 2) deciding who involved is wrong or right and attempting to "defend" or "punish" someone. The former deescalates the situation and moves it towards resolution. The latter results in increasing antagonization of an increasing number of people. This is demonstrable; there was a comment accusing me of defending one particular involved party (now deleted), which never happened. When I say not to involve yourself, I am referring to the latter behavior. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 21:40 | comment | added | Oleg | @jpmc26 Saying that it should be handled privately and trusting moderators to handle it is taking a side. I was referring to your previous comment "You are only making the situation worse by continuing to put your nose in it. Let it go. It was never your fight. Don't be dragged into it." applies to you as much as it applies to me. "Please stop escalating this situation." as well. It's not about the phrasing I don't mind, involving yourself and at the same time telling someone else not to involve himself is hypocritical. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 21:37 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @Oleg Be nice. I never took a side in this issue. I said from the moment I saw it that it should be handled privately. I trust our moderation team to handle the original actions that spawned the dispute. Please stop escalating this situation. My apologies for using the phrase, "put your nose in it." I wasn't able to think of better wording at the time. I really just meant don't involve yourself. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 21:20 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @Oleg You are only making the situation worse by continuing to put your nose in it. Let it go. It was never your fight. Don't be dragged into it. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 21:14 | comment | added | Oleg | @jpmc26 Assuming??? What?! There is no assuming, we know exactly what happened, there was 99.99% certainty from the beginning and it's 100% after he admitted that it's exactly what happened. I didn't see that comment, I don't know why it was made, there was a spree of downvotes against the victim which we don't know were it came from maybe the user who made that comment assumed that it was from the same person. Gimby is not correct that it was made in order to condemn him, absolutely no exaggeration is required in order to do that. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 20:38 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @Oleg Yes, it's egregious, assuming that all that was as we assumed it was. No, it's not a spree. Gimby is correct that the particular comment they mentioned exaggerated what happened. Gimby is also correct that the situation was just escalating and getting worse on all fronts. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 13:16 | comment | added | Oleg | @Gimby Describing what he did as 'single revenge downvote' is a gross understatement. He 1. Asked for an explanation 2. revenge downvoted after he got what he asked for 3. bragged about it 4. Had a very high rep. The combination of all those things is what got people riled up (especially the emphasized part). Also only a small number of people(probably 4-5) revenged the revenge downvote all the others were only discussing it. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 9:17 | comment | added | Gimby | When the hornet's nest was buzzing the loudest right before Brad did the only right thing to do, I saw the single revenge downvote being described as a "revenge spree" by someone; at that point something broke inside of me. If you go that far to overstate something so you can condemn someone for their actions, you're out for blood. And that was pretty much the running theme in my opinion... fighting fire with even hotter fire. Makes you feel a little helpless. | |
Nov 3, 2017 at 0:07 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @MarkAmery If you have a question about a policy or norm and what should usually happen, sure. If something specifically happened to you personally, then yes, you have some business knowing what the outcome was. For something to which you were a bystanding third party, no, you really don't have a right to know about the outcome of that specific event. In particular, the moderators won't be able to divulge all the information used to decide on their course of action, so the community can't effectively police them. If you have evidence of moderator misbehavior, use Contact Us. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 12:10 | comment | added | jscs | @dfd It's a good point. I've added a screenshot of the subject post -- with the poster's username redacted -- to the question here. You would need 10k rep to view the deleted question directly. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 12:09 | history | edited | jscs | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Add screenshot WITH REDACTION of meta poster's identity.
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Nov 2, 2017 at 8:04 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @jpmc26 I've said this on the previous question, but I'll say it again: no, knowing (and advocating for) policies followed by the moderators is our business. It's a large part of what Meta is for. We should not expect to be kept in the dark about what sort of behaviours merit moderator action. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 8:03 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Yes, @Makoto, that is a sane practice. Any Meta question which focuses specifically on the behavior of an individual user should be deleted and replaced with a (private) moderator flag. Not only are moderators the only ones with the relevant information accessible to them, but private matters need to be kept private. I believe that we moderators were mistaken in not deleting the question in question earlier. If you want to discuss an issue generally, then that's a fine Meta question, but don't refer to a specific user. In this case, though, everyone already knows revenge downvotes aren't OK. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 7:02 | comment | added | Magisch | Cases like this are why moderators and SE staff handle user specific issues instead of the community. Witch hunting is always bad if the goal is to stop bad behavior. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 6:15 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @dfd You had to be there in the thread. Be thankful you weren't. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 3:10 | comment | added | Dawood ibn Kareem | I want to know whether Stack Exchange are going to compensate me for the pitchfork that I now have no use for. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 3:05 | comment | added | user7014451 | Interesting thread. Problem is, exactly what is being discussed? I get bits and pieces. But with no links to a question or comment, with no relevant links to pretty much anything... this question belongs as a "hot meta post" as is? Scripts gone crazy.... | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 1:45 | comment | added | Gerardo Furtado | @jpmc26 it was a joke... | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 1:21 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @MarkAmery In general, the outcome of a dispute between two individual users is none of our business. If you need to post any questions, then they should be about how you should behave in such a situation (either as one of the involved parties or as a bystander). I suspect such questions have already been asked for the most part. I've already posted a comment on the post Brad linked asking for clarification about how uninvolved users should handle it when an accusatory post does come along, but if I don't get an answer in the next few days, I'll post a specific question about it. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 1:17 | comment | added | jpmc26 | @GerardoFurtado Meta is on topic for Meta.SO. It's within the purview of discussing how the site works or site policies and norms or getting feedback. | |
Nov 2, 2017 at 0:55 | comment | added | Gerardo Furtado | This question belongs to the Meta Meta StackOverflow... (rule #1, you don't talk about the Meta on the Meta). Of course, discussions about if this question actually belongs to the Meta Meta StackOverflow should be posted only on the Meta Meta Meta StackOverflow. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 23:21 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @Makoto if the response is indeed immediate, there's no reason for deletion - a mod has the power to edit the name out of the post without leaving a revision, which achieves the desired outcome. That option wasn't available to Brad in this case though (by the time he took action) since the offending user's name was already all over the place. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 22:05 | comment | added | Makoto | @BradLarson: Thoughts on an informal procedure then: questions which explicitly name a user which is suspected of serial downvoting or retaliation should be immediately closed/deleted then? (If so, that'd be amazing. We don't need that kind of drama here.) | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 21:52 | comment | added | TT. | @BradLarson Good move, there was nothing constructive about it all. Best to let everyone cool down, take a deep breath, let everyone put things in perspective. Two things crossed my mind: Somebody's wrong on the internet, and Monthy Python's Witch Scene. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 17:46 | comment | added | Mr Lister | Right, so the next time I downvote and someone asks for clarification, I'll comment "I didn't downvote, but it was probably because ..." | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 17:41 | comment | added | DavidG | Not a good day for the SO community in my view. Reacting to revenge voting with revenge voting, I thought we were above that sort of thing (for the most part anyway) | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:36 | comment | added | Brad Larson Mod | @MarkAmery - I escalated the whole situation to SE employees to review. Moderators cannot see individual votes, so I can't even prove that what was stated to have happened did. I can see that the two users involved were being serially downvoted by multiple people, and the discussion there was devolving into torches and pitchforks, so I decided to stop this and let impartial parties review the votes for invalidation. It's a textbook case of why public shaming on Meta isn't healthy for the site and it probably should have been deleted earlier. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:17 | comment | added | rene | Let me find some cats ... | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:16 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @Oleg don't worry, I'll be sure not to poison a specific cat but instead to poison cats in general. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:15 | comment | added | Oleg | @MarkAmery Yeah... I was just editing it. I'm a dog person but no... I don't condone cat poisoning. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:14 | comment | added | Mark Amery | I'm going to interpret the "please do" as responding to my first comment, there, @Oleg, although I got a laugh out of it appearing right after my cat-poisoning proposal. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:13 | comment | added | Oleg | @MarkAmery Please do. I suggest you make it general, this way we might actually get a response. Asking the mods how they handled a specific case probably won't be productive. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:13 | comment | added | Mark Amery | @rene I'll look into how I can retaliate against Brad Larson for deleting the post, and perhaps identify somebody else whose actions I disagree with and poison their cat. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:11 | comment | added | rene | @MarkAmery don't forget to publicly blame and shame one or two users ... looking forward to your post. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 15:06 | comment | added | Mark Amery | Perhaps more importantly, I want to know what the outcome of the discussion there was - was the offending user contacted by the mods? Is overt revenge downvoting something that they consider it their business to act on, or is their stance that we should just accept such things and not report them? There were competing opinions (by non-mods) on this on the now-deleted Meta question, with roughly equal support, and now we don't know the answer and will need to ask another question to find out. I guess once I'm done with work, I'll post a question and stir the pot yet further. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 14:59 | comment | added | Oleg | @gnat Somewhat, that was a reverse meta effect. Or maybe a meta meta effect or something. | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 14:41 | comment | added | gnat | related: What is the meta effect? | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 14:33 | vote | accept | Oleg | ||
Nov 1, 2017 at 14:20 | answer | added | jscs | timeline score: 80 | |
Nov 1, 2017 at 14:18 | history | asked | Oleg | CC BY-SA 3.0 |