Timeline for Does the HiQ vs. LinkedIn ruling influence SO's policy of prohibiting web scrapers? [closed]
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
33 events
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Oct 1 at 16:56 | history | closed |
Jonathan Leffler cottontail Dominique il_raffa Dave |
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Oct 1 at 5:31 | review | Close votes | |||
Oct 1 at 16:56 | |||||
Oct 16, 2017 at 22:54 | comment | added | Oleg | @o11c Not yet, it's only about HiQ and LinkedIn but we might get there ;). It does make a DDOS attack by HiQ on LinkedIn legal though. | |
Oct 15, 2017 at 3:37 | comment | added | o11c | Uh, does that ruling make it illegal for a private entity to apply IP blacklists to (D)DOS attackers? | |
Oct 13, 2017 at 5:52 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | Oleg, link you provided is VERY interesting! To me it's the dark side of the law! | |
Oct 13, 2017 at 0:14 | comment | added | Oleg | You agree only when you agree ;). There is a big difference between 'browsewrap' (stating that you're subject to some terms if you use the website) and 'clickwrap' (making you explicitly click on something that acknowledges you agree to the terms). It vastly changes between jurisdictions and to my surprise(and contrary to what I see as democratic) 'browsewrap' can sometimes be enough to prove that you agreed but from what I could gather SO doesn't do enough to establish consent. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 20:26 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | Using a service you do agree to that license, actually. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 19:04 | comment | added | Oleg | @AdrianoRepetti Sure but that's only after you accept and are legally blinded by a license agreement. Just putting something on a public webpage doesn't bind the people who view it that would be undemocratic. It's like me stapling a "give me 5 bucks if you see this" on my forehead. Does anybody who sees it owes me 5 bucks? If SO's statement had any legal merit they could sue google for indexing it's pages and making money by selling ads. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 18:57 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | @braiam what WE don't want to share (because of spam, mostly) and what SO (as company) doesn't want to share...are different things, I guess! 😊 | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 18:49 | answer | added | TylerH | timeline score: 5 | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 18:18 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | @oleg legally "for non commercial use" has a HUGE implication. Think about all the software free for non commercial use. Use it otherwise and you infringe copyright | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 17:50 | comment | added | Braiam | There's a bit of information unclear to me: what exactly is the public information that we don't want scrappers to know? My twitter account? Github account? What? | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 17:20 | comment | added | Oleg |
IANAL, but those are 2 separate issues the ...be republished... message is based on copyright laws and it states what the copyright owner allows you to do. There are no laws against scraping it doesn't make any sense, you can't say to someone what to do privately with something you publish publicly. Microsoft tried to abuse the CFAA and failed. The part of SO message that states cannot be used for any commercial purpose has no legal merit. Someone who scrapes the site doesn't have to accept any agreement and as long as he follows copyright laws can do anything he wants.
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Oct 12, 2017 at 12:37 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | Yes, linked article is pretty short but the same news has been published in many sites (of course each one exploring little bit different POVs). I didn't read exact wording of the sentence but if court said they have to remove every technical limitation then...I don't think they'll play any game against an official decision (unless they're open to pay fees, I guess). Not sure, I'm curious about what SO will do. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 12:32 | comment | added | Cerbrus | The article really lacks specifics. I doubt they can do anything against, for example, (aggressive) rate limiting. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 12:11 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | If I understood the sentence correctly they (MS) have to REMOVE any technical impediment or limitation. Yes, you may play near the edge between what is legal and what not or you may add recaptcha here and there but I don't think it can be a long term solution | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 12:09 | comment | added | Cerbrus | They can't forbid it on basis of the "Computer Fraud and Abuse Act" (CFAA), but there's nothing forbidding SO from making it more difficult to scrape the public content. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 11:40 | comment | added | Adriano Repetti | @Magisch yes, that's what I'm worried about. Manual scrapping/cross referencing is expensive...I don't want an automated bot to send me e-mails or facebook messages or xyz or because my cheap data have been collected by a bot and sold for 1 cent! | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 11:36 | comment | added | Magisch | From what I understand, LinkedIn wants to do exactly what SO does to scrapers now: Remove access to ostensibly public data. If the court decides in the same way that the injunction ruled, this may be precedent that SO can't forbid scraping of anything publicly accessible and can't put any blocks to do so in place. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:52 | history | edited | Adriano Repetti | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 9:32 | history | edited | Adriano Repetti | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 9:32 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | Ahhh... I think that's what the block I quoted above was trying to say... "Take whatever you want from the API - but don't try and take that data and then scrape developer stories" - that's pretty much the only things not covered by the API... so yeah... interesting :) | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:27 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | Oh wait... I'll shut up... There's a very obvious block of text in the MSE post saying: Profile Content that is NOT available via the Stack Exchange API ("Personal Profile Content") cannot be used for any commercial purpose, individually or in aggregate, or be republished without the explicit consent of the author of such Personal Profile Content or the explicit consent of Stack Exchange. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:25 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | I'm not a lawyer or speak for SO, but I'd have thought something like "We don't want people to scrape our site for user profiles (why should you use our resources for us to generate HTML and you have all the extra work of deciphering it), but if you want the information we happen to be providing, then access it here in a nice condensed JSON format"... shrugs | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:25 | comment | added | Pekka | @Jon I think it was about scraping (and most headlines etc. seem to confirm that) but haven't read in depth about the case! | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:24 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | @Pekka oh is this focused about scraping? The information is available via a free API - I thought the whole issue about that was people arguing that linked in (public profiles) was public data and if they could access it another way without scraping etc... etc... | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:22 | comment | added | Pekka | @Jon the thing is that right now, Stack Overflow prohibits companies from scraping that information from the page (as opposed to the API) without their express permission and that may now become an illegal practice if that ruling holds. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:21 | history | edited | Pekka | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 9:21 | comment | added | Jon Clements Mod | Not sure what you mean by the user profile data is now not available from SE API unless explicitly allowed by users...? Everything that's not deleted that you've posted on Q&A (be it questions/answers/comments) are available as well as any information you've put in your "about me" and profile. | |
Oct 12, 2017 at 9:20 | history | edited | Pekka | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 8:47 | history | edited | Adriano Repetti | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 8:42 | history | edited | Adriano Repetti | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Oct 12, 2017 at 8:18 | history | asked | Adriano Repetti | CC BY-SA 3.0 |