Timeline for Is defending and creating low-quality content a (disturbing) trend with high-rep users?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
31 events
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Sep 15, 2017 at 4:36 | comment | added | Karan Desai | @MatteoItalia Great post. Projected words clearly. I personally agree with you but I believe it would have downloaded if some 'low-rep' user would have written it. LMAO | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 19:37 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @HansPassant: ow, sorry, sometimes I get a bit paranoid about "not getting" irony, especially when the discussion is not in my mother tongue. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 19:37 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @CodyGray: I know, I was extremely happy by your link fixing work on the locked post two days ago, a great example of "keeping clean" the Stack Overflow museum that unfortunately started a war with the "just delete everything" crowd. Of course editing quickly isn't just to keep away the close-voters - in my answer I focused strictly on one aspect, there is much more beyond it. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 18:00 | comment | added | user4639281 | There is absolutely nothing interesting about a site full of overly specific debugging questions that will never help anyone else. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 17:59 | comment | added | user4639281 | I agree with @HansPassant here, everyone is so quick to downvote everything nowadays, without realizing that the only stuff that isn't being downvoted into oblivion is the overly specific debugging questions that will never ever help anyone else ever. Hell, people are actively trying to turn clear and concise how-to questions into overly specific programming questions all the time. I answered a question the other day that was clear and concise, the guy gave some backstory to show that he did some research, and everyone wanted to make it into an overly specific debugging question. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 15:30 | comment | added | Hans Passant | There was nothing ironic about it whatsoever. The only good cure I know for boring content is interesting content. Why people want to stop users from posting interesting content is mystifying to me. Why Servey keeps going on about upvoting bad content is as well, nobody but him is talking about that. And besides, how I use my votes, how anybody uses their votes, is none of his business. Maybe it helps to stop talking about "quality", nobody seems to be able to pin down what it means. SO has too much boring content. Yawn. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 14:27 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @Servy: honestly, after quoting and thanking him and all this fuss, it dawned on me that he's probably being ironic, especially given his usual stance about the quality problems referred to elsewhere - but at 3 in the morning subtle irony often goes over my head. I should have known better, at that time I even upvoted his famous post after the "summer of love". (not that I regret the upvote - at time it was spot on; it's just that currently we've gone overboard in the other direction) | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 14:06 | comment | added | Servy | @HansPassant Nobody said that posting high quality answers was problematic at all. All anyone ever said was that posting quality answers doesn't make it okay to go around upvoting bad content. Posting good answers doesn't make upvoting bad posts okay. Going around actively encouraging people to upvote posts that they think are bad just because they've also posted some technically correct answers isn't helpful, and isn't the way to improve the quality problems that you regularly refer to elsewhere. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 12:13 | history | edited | jscs | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Sep 14, 2017 at 11:40 | comment | added | Cody Gray Mod | Broadly speaking, you have my support, too. I would very much prefer to salvage value from questions than to delete them. The issue here is quality. If you're contributing quality, you're tops in our book. If you see a nugget of value in a question, and know you can compose a good answer, then please edit the question. The way you're doing things sounds fine to me. Editing first isn't just important to stave off close-voters, though. It's also important to stave off a flurry of noisy answers that your edit obsoletes. That's the same reason we try to close questions as early as possible. | |
Sep 14, 2017 at 2:17 | comment | added | user4639281 | This. Absolutely this. There are many roles to play in this game we call Stack Overflow, and people have different ideas about how those roles should be played. That's a good thing, because it's the differences that drive evolution. Perfection is unattainable, so it's a good thing I'm ok with just the best programming Q&A site on the web. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 22:53 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @HansPassant: I re-inserted my points in a bit less inflammatory tone, borrowing your quote because it really does express the core of my beliefs on the issue; I hope I framed it with considerations you agree with. Thank you again for the support, I think that without it I'd just have left the answer in its "censored" form. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 22:45 | history | edited | Matteo Italia | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Sep 13, 2017 at 22:14 | comment | added | Andrew Myers | The discussion inspired by your original post proved your point rather well. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 22:01 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @HansPassant: thanks Hans, I really appreciate your support. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:52 | comment | added | Hans Passant | @Matteo - don't let somebody shout you down in meta. You are absolutely right of course, solid technical advice lasts forever. It is not like SO users are not constantly reminded about that when they see the typical Q+A as the top hit at Google, lazy unresearched question paired with a fantastic answer. Keep them coming. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:46 | history | edited | Matteo Italia | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Sep 13, 2017 at 21:40 | history | edited | Matteo Italia | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Sep 13, 2017 at 21:35 | comment | added | Servy | I never said you upvoted spammers. You said you like to upvote posts that you think are bad questions (you didn't specify any more than that). If you honestly don't upvote question that you think are bad then...don't say that you upvote questions that you think are bad (or that it's an okay thing for other people to do). | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:33 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | You know what, I'll just remove the last paragraphs, this discussion is completely irrelevant to my point about the question; feel free to think that I like upvoting spammers and undeleting "give me teh codez" posts if that makes you happy, honestly I don't really care. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:28 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @Servy: keep reading in my question what you want to read, if that is what floats your boat. I may reward good problems that happen to be badly formulated - usually editing the question to make it understandable (as you can see from my "Copy Editor" badge I'm quite keen of improving posts), and I'll vote to undelete posts that I don't think deserve deletion, which often happens for old posts that don't conform to the current most stringent standards, but still contain valid content. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:18 | comment | added | Servy | But you've specifically stated right in your answer that you upvote questions that you think are bad questions, so clearly you don't just disagree with others' opinions of the quality, you simply feel that it's okay to reward people for contributions that you recognize are of low quality. That's a big problem. And saying that we should refuse to delete low quality content just because it's old, rather than because you honestly feel that the content is good content, is not a point in favor of your assertion that you actually care about quality, and just disagree with others. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:12 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | About old questions, it's the same. I'm not going around undeleting random garbage; I'll vote to undelete stuff that was on-topic and well received at time, but now it was deleted because the scope of Stack Overflow has narrowed with time. IMO that's not a valid reason to delete the history, and in particular high-quality content that just happens to be no longer on topic. But again, my views on moderation are not the point of discussion here. If you think it's less distracting, I'll just delete all but the first three paragraphs, which are the actual point I'm trying to convey. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:07 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @Servy: I'm mostly talking about the first case posted in the original post - the high-rep user that upvoted what OP marked as a "garbage question"; what I'm saying is, don't assume that a high-rep user necessarily agrees with you that it is such - and in general, that just because he/she's high-rep, holds the same majority opinion about what low-quality content is. Rep comes from technical contributions, not moderation. Also, when I'm upvoting or voting to reopen a question against the majority opinion is not because I like low quality content - it's because I don't think it's low quality. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:04 | history | edited | Matteo Italia | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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Sep 13, 2017 at 21:02 | comment | added | Servy | That you also think that people should refrain from deleting bad content that's old, just because it's old, and that apparently all old content must, by definition, be good, is simply unrelated to what this question is about. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:02 | comment | added | Servy | And yet nothing about this question is mentioning anything about deletion of anything. It's talking about high rep users providing low quality contributions, and people being rewarded for posting low quality contributions. You've asserted that because of your high reputation, which you assert comes from your valuable technical contributions, gives you the right to reward people for posting low quality contributions, because you've earned the right to not have to care about quality and to upvote bad content because you want to. That's clearly harmful. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 21:01 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | But again, this isn't about justifying my ideas about moderation; it's just an explanation of the fact that "high-rep user" isn't necessarily correlated with "shares the majority opinion about moderation". | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 20:58 | comment | added | Matteo Italia | @Servy: I disagree; I'll dutifully downvote technically wrong content; what I don't stand is deletion of valid content because two years ago was on topic and today somehow it isn't; or trigger-happy dupe closers that first dupe-close and delete, then actually read the question; or delete-hound dogs that don't know how to spend their time and go looking for old, then perfectly valid questions with 3-4 upvoted/accepted answers and decide that they must be deleted. Go kill the actual garbage that keeps getting in instead of disturbing long dead stuff. | |
Sep 13, 2017 at 20:53 | comment | added | Servy |
as long as I keep posting sound technical content Or, if there are other people like you around, even if you keep posting unsound, inaccurate, unclear, and otherwise low quality content, people like you will continue seeing their reputation grow. That's...the whole problem.
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Sep 13, 2017 at 20:48 | history | answered | Matteo Italia | CC BY-SA 3.0 |